Sis,

Hang in there girl. Try to look at WH's trip as a chance for him to be around his parents, to be around YOUR supporters. I'm sure there will atleast be a FEELING of what they want and expect from him, while he is there. He will feel it.

When I spoke to Jennifer last night, she reminded me that, in the case of a wayward Husband, Plan A should be SHORT and SWEET, then the PBL letter, then darkness. With men and their WW's she recommends longer Plan A's. You ARE meeting some of his needs right now, and I'm CONFIDENT that RT (god I love that) will NEVER be able to do the whole thing alone. Right now, in a way, you are helping her sustain your H. When you take you out of the triangle, she's drifting alone.

Her DEMANDS will start to hurt their R. You will be the light; you will be the one he cannot picture his future without.

(((LilSis)))

You may be surprised how much energy will return when WH is away visiting his parents - you KNOW he will not be with RT for those few days. Although it is not always actively on your mind, it is 24/7 in your subconscious. I tell my H things like that act as a computer virus in my brain. Always working behind the scenes to corrupt "brain files" that you don't even recognize until you try to access that "file" again.

How about a simple plan A assignment? A text to WH saying something like "Missed your road report today"? True, and not a stretch for your lagging energy.

Sis... sorry you are feeling a bit lower today. One thing about him not calling your son back... let it all fall on his shoulders and don't make excuses for him.
In fact, it would be very wise for your son to be able to express HIS disappointment directly to his father and for him to ask... "why didn't you call me back?" That can be very powerful stuff. And while you cannot have certain expectations that your WH will act like a good parent or father... I know for sure your kids DO have those expectations. THEY are being victimized by your WH and that is hopefully something they will begin to express to him.

Today will be a better day for you Lilsis. Keep your chin up.

MEDC.

Here's another hug for you today ((((LilSis))))

Honestly I don't know how I kept my energy level up for so long. My H and I separated in September of 05, I did something very closwe to a plan A before I even realized what I was doing but I didn't start an official plan A until I found this site which was late January or early February. I stayed in that plan A until the first week of June. So probably right at about 4 months.

There were days I felt just like you feel, didn't know how I could go another day but I did. I had a goal in mind to make it till June when my kids were leaving and I just kept focusing on that. The week before my kids were supposed to leave my FWH said something so hateful (it really wasn't anymore hateful than any other day) but something snapped inside of me and I knew right then it was time. I couldn't wait another day. I went home that night and prepared my plan B letter. When I went to pick the kids up from his apt. the next day after work, he knew the moment I walked in the door that it was a different Daze then he had ever seen. I handed him that PBL on my way out and all of the color literally drained from his face. I had never felt more strong and light. It felt like this huge weight had been lifted. I no longer had to deal with the fogged out alien jacka$$ (that's what I called the WH).

He tried very very hard for me to break that plan B clear up until my kids left. He asked them everyday what Mommy was doing, who she was talking to, what she did on the computer, etc. He came to my house the day I was taking the kids to meet my parents in another state, he tried one last time to change my mind about him riding with me and I stood my ground. He had to watch his family pull out of the driveway and leave without him. He stood there and cried b/c for the first time he really got a glimpse of his new life.

He called me on my way there to check on us and I answered b/c I felt he deserved to know his kids were safe. The kids called him that night at the hotel to say goodnight but I let my mom talk to him instead of me. The next day on my way home he texted me to make sure I made it home, I did not answer. At work on Monday (we work together) I completely acted like he didn't exist. Everyone came up to me and asked me what was wrong with FWH. He looked absolutely miserable. The next morning I came in and found the 3 page letter in my mailbox telling me he had ended the A and was ready to come home.

Do you know what my reaction was to that letter? I was happy but pissed at the same time. I felt shortchanged. I wasn't ready for FWH to come back. I wanted him to go live his happy little dream for awhile so he could really get a taste of it. That is still my one big regret. I wish I would have made him work a little harder to come home.

I'm telling you this b/c you will find away to get through this and meet your goal, and if you can't meet your goal you will know in your heart when it is time for Plan B.

You have to find what works for you. Honestly, referring to WH as an alien Jacka$$ helped me keep the two separate. When he would act like WH in my head I would say "ok, this is alien jacka$$ I'm dealing with" and somehow it would make it so much easier to deal with.

My FWH has said over and over that he would be meaner and meaner to me b/c he wanted me to make his life easier, he WANTED me to set him free. I WAS NOT about to accomodate him. And I was not about to hand that b!tch my H on a silver platter!! That alone kept me going.

You will find your strength, you have it, we can all see it.
Find what works for you.

Daze

I am sure your story will inspire many others

you especially make a good point about timing of Plan B ...

Pep

Ditto on my girl DAZE....



This is her way of saying what I was attempting to convey about the MINDSET that I found to be HELPFUL!!

You all raise a good point about his trip. I was thinking about that "influence." MIL is a better influence than FIL, who is a huge conflict avoider and will try to make Phoenix into Denialville just like when he was living here. FIL does NOT approve, not one bit, abhors it, but "doesn't want to go there." I believe he feels it is a reflection on him...

And given the entitlement mentality of a WS, it should be no surprise that WH decides to take off for 10 days without checking in with me about arrangements for our children... I can accept this (swallowing hard, first, though)

SHOL: I really like your text suggestion. Thanks! Will do. Short, sweet, to the point....shows how he's needed. And you are right...no energy required, except my thumbs!

mimi, you said:
You are right. It would be very helpful...but it's extraordinarily difficult. You know that--intellectually--I see and accept that this is how it will be. Question: did you actually get to a point where it didn't hurt? Especially where the boys were concerned? It's that heart/head thing...in my head I know that he's a crackhead, but in my heart I keep wanting him to do the right thing, and (dare I admit it...) expecting it even. It's almost like I can't help it, especially when my heart has the upper hand. That's when I feel wounded, when I need to vent and whine to everyone here, even though I know others have it much worse. (sorry about that, BTW)

SL: I'm still so happy for you!!! (can't help saying that) But...about the length of Plan A. SH told ME to Plan A as long as possible...admitted it was contrary to typical advice. Reason was the pending D action. And my sense it that this is correct advice...given what I know about my WH and the depth of his addiction.

Intermediary...MIL won't work because she's in AZ. I was thinking SIL, but she has not been...sensitive?...to me recently. She has thought WH should be curb-kicked since day one and is impatiently waiting for me to do so in big way. I'd like an intermediary who was a little more supportive. Actually, the religious school woman (RSW) would be a great choice because she's here in the neighborhood about halfway between ILs and my house for pick-up/drop-off. But I don't know...can I trust her? She may still be in touch with RT...kids go to school together...and RSW initially was very concerned with "saving" RT's soul, felt sorry for how pathetic RT was. Sorry, but Ugh.

LS

Sorry...with all my long-winded typing I missed Daze's post. I believe I will print that one out, too. I love the kick-a$$ attitude...strength. And VERY reassuring to know that you struggled with Plan A, too, but were able to keep it up...AND that you sort of had an epiphany about your Plan B timing. I think subconsiously that's what I'm waiting for. I feel a little low, sometimes quite low, but I'm not ready to give up the fight yet. I AM NOT A QUITTER. And there's a difference between "quitting" and "ending" or "stopping." One is by choice, thought-out. Another is giving up. Does the distinction make sense?

I also wanted to comment on the "Plan A the H, Plan B the WH." I'm glad mimi brought this up because I was too chicken to, honestly. I've never quite "gotten" that. I read it and try to process it and just end up with this big, hmmmmm....must be I'm dense, because everyone else here "gets it." It seems sort of backwards, because in Plan A, all you HAVE is the WH...there IS no H, except for maybe little glimpses. ????

Plan B, in my mind, is about ME...cutting myself free, moving on and at the SAME TIME, inviting H to lose his W. So, if anything, Plan B is for me and H (not WH), because Plan B is when H and I BOTH have to step up and reclaim our lives.

I haven't quite thought this through, but if I HAD to create one, my saying would be more along the lines of "Plan A the WH, Plan B the W and H."

My 2 cents....IMHO. Like I said, maybe I'm just stoopid.

I guess it's a difference in coping styles. For me, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER..so my INTELLECTUALIZING can OVERRULE my EMOTIONS. I found if I could UNDERSTAND what my WH was doing, almost outwitting him, I felt less hurt. That's how we may be different as you have said that you have AVOIDED reading the MB stuff. I became IMMERSED in it..almost OCDlike, reading His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair DAILY..referring to the parts that were affecting me at any given time..Come to find out that the Dr. Harley was right on target. I could predict and understand what my WH was doing and what I needed to do. That's why I'm such a stickler about trying to follow their program.

I just kept telling myself: "YOU'VE GOT TO DO THESE PLANS..DON'T GIVE UP ON THIS..THIS IS YOUR ONLY OPTION..." In other words, I BECAME A BELIEVER IN MBer's. Duh....

This was my way of guarding my HEART..but I certainly had my moments....especially when my H was SO SO MEAN..he could be so MEAN AND HATEFUL...and even when he was ACTING NORMAL..I KNEW that he could turn at any minute..I WAS PREPARED...

ABOUT THE TRIP: I think that it is very TELLING that he is spending such a lengthy amount of time away from RT...Do you think this may be another attempt of his to end it? Or is he going to try to convince his parents to accept her? Something is up, IMO, for him to choose to leave her for that long a period of time. I'm recalling when he went on that trip and she sent that message to him about her POWER...Are my facts right here?

I was wondering about that trip to visit his parents also.
Why is getting away from RT.....and for more than a few days?

to visit w/ his parents who do not approve of the relationship and want him back w/ YOU.

seems odd to me.

You seemed surprised about it?
Is it unusual to you that he would decide to visit Arizona in February?
Did you do so together in the past?

PLAN B is also aimed at MARITAL RECOVERY, recommended if PLAN A is not effective as a "last resort". It requires the OW to meet ALL OF HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS and for him to see HER AND THE RELATIONSHIP for what it REALLY IS. It removes the ROMANTICIZED ASPECT of it so he will begin losing his HIGH.

Get yourself prepared for PLAN B, Sis so that you can go REALLY, REALLY DARK and that is soo hard to do. For me, PLAN B was really hard...harder than PLAN A when I could at least see and talk to him..but you have already been separated for awhile so it may be easier for you.

I think that it is ESSENTIAL that he NOT BE ALLOWED TO COME INTO YOUR HOME during PLAN B. He needs to make arrangements to visit with the boys elsewhere..Otherwise, he will get some NEEDS MET although indirectly from you...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Orchid and I have had our share of discussions about this even when my husband was still a wayward...

To me, even with the GLIMPSES, my H remained a WH..just handing me crumbs until NC with her.. and I couldn't take it anymore...

I got to the point of wanting ALL OF HIM or NONE OF HIM...

Yes. We were on our annual trip to the cottage we have rented for years (Saturday to Saturday thing) and apparently they had an agreement that they would not speak until Tuesday (gag). Well, I guess he broke down and called her on Sunday. That example, coupled with a few others that she cited, led to her to say "I HAVE THE POWER." (implying that he was simply UNABLE to get away) Interestingly...SB may have an opinion on this...after that ALL CAPS statement, she wrote "(just kidding)" HA! Joke was on WH...

About the trip...WH KNOWS better than to try to convince his parents to accept RT, especially now when MIL and I are in constant contact and so very close. MIL does NOT swear...she called RT a b!tch. So I don't know what's up with the trip. Last year about this same time he also took a trip to visit them (alone...which was weird but SO much was weird then that it hardly phased me at the time).

Looking back and knowing the context, I think that trip was an attempt to get away, get some clarity, etc. He told me after d-day that he didn't talk to her the whole trip. (hmmmm...WS's lie) MIL has talked about how when he was there last Feb., he talked about how he missed his family...and I saved some voicemails he left while he was gone that confirm that. They were so sweet, he sounded so lonesome.

The day after he returned from the trip last year, we went out to breakfast w/o kids and I remember him wanting to connect somehow...telling me how he had missed his family...and I couldn't process it because he WOULD NOT ACKNOWLEDGE that this "friendship" he had with RT was hurtful to me. I was SOOO frustrated at that point.

It was shortly after he returned that he got into IC (with a counselor who told him to do whatever felt good).

I truly believe (and it was confirmed by RT herself in the "I have the power" email) that WH DID try to break away. He tried to kick the habit, but could not. Does resentment ever set in with these guys? "I didn't really want this, I wanted to do the right thing, but you continued to push it, continued to weild your power until I destroyed everything and everyone around me, and everything I believed in." Is that EVER enough in itself to break the spell?

Whatever...I'm overthinking.

Yes, mimi, knowledge is power, and ordinarily I would be reading EVERYTHING under the sun. But SAA...that whole section on ENs. I felt so AWFUL after reading it...like it was all my fault...What if??? What if??? I was SO stupid!! My poor H!! I was awful to him!! Beating myself up.

So in the delicate balance between the empowering feeling of KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING vs. the feelings of guilt and remorse once understanding sets in....

Does that make any sense?

That said...I am going to the bookstore today to buy HNHN anyway.... I'll buy a bag of chocolate to go along with it...maybe it will be more palatable that way.

Your MIL needs to buy a copy of SURVIVING AN AFFAIR and talk to him about the MB APPROACH during the visit..about the addiction..that your marriage can be recovered, etc. I think he'll listen to his mother...

I think he's trying to break away from RT....

I don't think he would be leaving if that was not the case...

He's trying to see if he can make it without her...probably because she is pressuring him since her D...and he's realizing that he is ABANDONING his own family to be with HERS...YUCK...

Surprised? Well...just in that it's so typically selfish, so not really. "Well, I feel like getting away, getting some sun and seeing my folks...soo....I guess I'll up and leave for AZ. Oh, my children? Whatever....LS has them."

Unusual? He made this trip last year as well, saying he wanted to get away, help his parents do some painting in their new condo, relive a trip he made in college. Looking back...I understand the context better. At the time I was understanding...not delighted and actually feeling quite left behind...but accepting. I had work and the boys were in school...I didn't have the luxury of being able to get away for a week.

No, we did not go in the past...ILs bought the condo a year ago last fall, so last year they had really just moved in.

Sis,

UNDERSTAND that you made mistakes...

DO NOT beat yourself up over them....

Mistakes can be rectified, and anybody with a brain knows that...

I believe that you will get your chance, but as Mimi stated, at least prepare yourself for Plan B. Look at places that you may have cracks, that WH may be able to 'get' to you. The child swap is the biggest thing. I told WH to stay in his car and let my son come to the door alone. He did, up until recently, H came to the door TWICE recently. Maybe that's why I felt like something was happening with him.

I had an intermediary, and she fell through, then I got another, and she fell through a little over a week ago. They were both CLOSE friends and maybe felt far too awkward...

Like I said before, you are close to this, you are in the car and reacting to the crash; we are passers' by who are looking in and see what is happening. PROGRESS. Something is up with WH's trip...

i just picked up on something for the first time....did you say that you were trying to get him to give up friendship w/ RT before you knew about the affair?

how long had that been going on?

did you ever suspect an affair?

Makes total sense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The other thing you have to think about is that you SHOULD NOT go to plan B until you are 100% ready b/c WH will see through you right away and you will be more likely to break plan B. My FWH tried very very hard to get me to break it and succeeded the very first day. Honestly it was hard to do it that entire week before I took the kids to meet my parents. I know for sure if I had not of been 100% ready he would have gotten me to break it completely.



I didn't really get it at first either. Honestly, thinking more about your situation I don't think it is appropriate for you anyway. My FWH was a big cakeeater. I really don't know when he was spending time with her b/c almost the entire time we were separated we were still spending time together. She really must have settled for crumbs.
Definately don't know when he had time to "fall in love" with her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think before you are in a place to use it you would need to be seeing alot more of real H.

You are not stoopid. I know you may be kidding but stop minimizing/demeaning yourself. Even when we are kidding we start to believe what we are telling ourselves.

Another thing that got me through was positive thinking. I never saw any other viable outcome other than FWH coming home. It wasn't an option. Now at some point in time I may have had to come to terms with it being an option but no matter what he said or did and no matter what anyone else said to me or thought, it was just never a thought that I put any merit into. I may have had fears but they were never beliefs.

Just curious, but when do your boys have spring break?

I agree with you Mimi. If it wasn't for all of those books I would not have survived and I would not have known what I was dealing with or how to fight it. Those books and that knowledge gave me a power that a WH or OW could not fight. Just like you I could predict everything FWH was going to do and say before he ever did it. When he did end up doing/saying those things I would stand in awe, unbelieving at first that they are all so alike. Everyone wants to believe that their WS is different and we as BS's are different, but sadly we are not. It's sad but at the same time lucky for us there inlies our power. We can anticipate almost every word and every step.

Get those books LilSis, I definately could not have gone a day without reading SAA.

And, just like you I beat myself up over the way I had treated my H. But it happened, and he was not the best H either, you just have to look at it as you didn't know how to have a healthy and strong marriage. Now you have the chance. Yes it sucks that it took this but without it you would still be stuck in an M that was not the best and you would be going through this a few years from now.

It's happening, you can't dwell on the past. You have the chance now. Start arming yourself with the knowledge you need to fight RT.