Lilsis,

Your words will echo in his mind.

They will be added to the already loud doubting thoughts that are already there.

The man has a heavy burden on his back...and it is getting heavier every day.

He is lost.

Deep down he knows he is. Hearing that the one person he has hurt more than anyone else believes in him does not yet compute in his foggy head.

Right now he wonders about YOUR sanity, but there will come a day when he will understand what you have done...and what you were saying to him.

Rest assured the A is not as much fun as it once was.

Just as you can tell when he has been around RT, she can tell when he has been around you and your children. She is going to discourage him from spending time w/ you and the boys as much as possible.

Don't stop what you are doing.

Don't let THAT check discourage you.

~ Marsh

Thanks everyone. I took a little break to watch the superbowl (or rather, the ads) with the boys. They got a little bored with it all and so we had some fun trying to figure out all the menu items on the TV. I really need to spend some time learning all the features...

Then we began paying attention to all the closings scrolling along the bottom and it turns out they have already called school off for tomorrow! Yippee!! Excitement ensues. So I told DS11 he could call dad.

See, Lex...all we ever get is VM. You had the good grace, and good sense, to take calls from your children even when you were with OM. So once again, DS11 called his dad with an "important" (to him!) annoucement, and gets VM. Kinda takes the joy out of it a little.

New TV: $700
Box of microwave popcorn: $2.50
Sharing your excitement with a recorded voice....hmmm...not so much.

The boys aren't in any sports now. Neither one of them are competitve, and both are small for their ages. I hate to say it, but I worry that they inherited some of my athletic prowess....which is exactly none. Both played t-ball/baseball, but DS11 didn't want to this year. DS8 loved it...but WH was AWOL all season this year (interestingly, this is the first year he's been AWOL, and it was also the first year that RT's kids weren't on the same team....hmmmm).

That said, suffice it to say that over the past three years, WH has not made it a priority to play catch, to shoot baskets, to toss the frisbee, to hit balls, to ride bikes, to golf, or to swim with the boys.

Again, I accept it for what it is....because not every kid is into sports, nor is every parent cut out to be a coach. However, I firmly believe that WH's "extracurricular activities" interferred with his USUAL activites involving the boys, such as sports/physical activity...and homework...and the clarinet...and the Audubon Club...and Young Authors...and their friends...

Ohhh...but I could tell as soon as it was halftime...the phone rang and it was WH..."Can I talk to DS11, please?" Sounded like he was outside. I'm sure he stepped outside so RT's kids wouldn't be heard in the background, assuming they are there.

Yuck.

At least this time, when DS11 asked WH if he wanted to talk to DS8, WH said yes. Progress!

Have them keep calling....

The more messages the better....

Also, maybe another topic to include him on: what kinds of dreams does he have for his sons; what can they share, do together...

LilSis - what absolutely drove OM'sW totally ballistic when her husband and my wife ran off with each other was when her kids could not contact him on his cell phone.

I would most certainly speak to him about this and tell him that he must be available to his children whenever they ring and fobbing them off to voicemail is unacceptable.

I likewise told my wife that I expected her cell phone to always be on and for her to be available if the kids wanted to speak to her.

Thanks, Marsh. It means a lot to hear this from you. I WILL keep my head down and keep pushing through. I know that I NEED to do this--for myself and my boys--no matter the outcome. The voices here, telling me to keep going, are invaluable. I could NOT DO THIS on my own.

The one phone call to share the good news was enough I think. The boys are preoccupied now, with visions of a day off tomorrow...dad's a distant memory. Let WH sit back and "enjoy" his choices in peace.

LilSis,

I can relate about WH not being around. Tonight as my younger D and I went to get snacks for SB (my oldest is in Gemany now for 6 months) she mentioned she hasn't talked to her father in days. The man has not called to talk to her. I am so angry right now. She feels like he only cares about her brother because he will go out to his camp.
And I know when I mention it to him he's going to say she could call me. Well it's not up to her to keep a relationship with him. He's the dad. If he wants to earn back any respect from her he needs to do better. Actually I don't think either of my girls will respect him while he is with his own "RT".

SH01

Sad to say, Big, this will absolutely do NO GOOD...would be like talking to a BRICK WALL...

Only VM..MO for WSes..at least it was for mine.

I always knew when he was with HER..cellphone was off..OOOOHHH such a bad memory.

Thankfully my H NEVER TURNS OFF his cellphone NOW when he is out. He KNOWS what a trigger it is for me and I don't remember even talking specifically to him about it. If his cellphone happens to need recharging and that seldom if ever happens, he apologizeds profusely..so he kwows full well that's what he used to do as part of his AFFAIR PROGRAM...Yuck... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Mimi - my experience is exactly the opposite. So was OM'sW's

They both dutifully kept their cell phones on and took the calls.

Probably has to do with ages, and neediness of the children.

I think you have every right to expect to be able to reach him at any time with your kids being the ages they are.

I think the more often your boys call him, the better Lilsis. Don't let him off the hook -- you're enabling.
Everytime the boys mention their dad, let them call him.

Let that guilt soak into him.

Big: Shall I say that was a BLESSING for you? I think it was..I'm not sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Thing is, Sis is not going to be able to FORCE her WH to do anything. You know what I mean?

Sis:

I just read the 11 min CONVO...

Yes, your WH is very SAD...

I agree with everyone else that ALL IS NOT WELL IN TURDLAND..

But, in that case, he will be working to TRY TO GET THE HIGH BACK...thus tonight...

Sis, remember that the LORD IS ALSO WITH YOU...

BELIEVE IN MIRACLES...

I agree Sis can't force anything Mimi - neither could I. You never know - it may work with him. If he thinks he's such a great father he should be available to his kids and pointing that out can't hurt can it?

I think Lexxy had a brilliant idea about this.

My experience with my FWH's cellphone use was like Mimi's until the tide started to turn. It was almost like a barometer. Some distinct hints came from the cell phone both in discovery and recovery. (Then there was the secret cellphone during a false recovery...but that is another story.)

The cellphone thing is really out of my control. I can't waste my energy trying to get him to change his behavior on this one thing because it would be fruitless. Among the many "wrongs" WH has commited, this one is paltry in comparison. If he fails to see the biggies (like adultery, deserting his family) as wrong, letting a call go to VM is a nothing.

Another example: I left him a VM about 45 minutes before he brought the kids home, asking for him to pick up a gallon of milk (so I don't have to venture out in this weather)...didn't get my milk! No cereal in the morning for you, boys! So you see....

He's a WH. What do you expect?

So on to more important things....I called MIL.

She had recently spoken to WH. He CALLED HER while he was on his way to a Super Bowl party at a "friends" house. "Not RT's, mom," he said. Taking her que from me (she said), she very calmly told him that she thought he should be spending the super bowl with his sons, sharing that experience with them. She very clearly and plainly stated her position.

"I couldn't," was his explanation. (Just like the "I can't" come home that I've heard in the past.)

MIL and I only spoke for a few minutes, but she asked me to call her back later after she finished dinner. She did mention one other thing...WH told her that he doesn't like what I'm doing because it makes him "feel stressed and guilty."

Oh really?

I had to laugh...apparently he SHOULD be feeling relaxed and carefree! Again...how rude of me to MAKE him feel this way.

MIL saw this as a change...that he's finally expressing/feeling guilty (how awful is that...that he HASN'T thus far??). I'm most impressed that he's sharing this with him mom, especially knowing how close she and I are.

Reactions?

I think it's time for a face-to-face conversation much like the PHONE CONVERSATION...

As others have said, I think he needs to BELIEVE that he can break away from her...

And to hear this again from you...

WOW.
He called MIL and he mentioned he feels stressed and guilty....that's progress.
if he is admitting he feels guilty he is drifting away from denile. that's pretty big.

I agree w/ mimi that he needs to BEIEVE he can break away from HER. He is feeling guilty and does not feel he deserves your forgiveness...he is very confused right now.

when you get the chance again.....tell him that you want him to come home. Tell him that you miss him, everything about him.

HE JUST CALLED TO TALK TO ME!!!!

I had just texted him: "These are Fargo temps! Worry about you out there...stay warm, ok?"

(His brother lives in Fargo and their air temps are always ultra cold)

Couple of minutes later the phone rings. He's at a house fire in the neighborhood, a cool house that we have admired in the past. It was a neat old house that looked really neglected, among all these cute houses. We always talked about how it was probably really cool inside, and would be a great fixer-upper. Turns out an old recluse and his son lived there, and both died. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> WH gave me that whole rundown, and as he was talking, the local news was showing the house fire, so DS11 and I were looking for him as we talked. WH and I talked about how this weather will always bring out the house fires and the people who get carbon monoxide poisoning.

I also got a chance to thank him for sending me some photos...I logged into work and discovered some pics of the boys that he had emailed last night at 10:00. I asked him if he knew he had sent it to my work email; he didn't. (then we got sidetracked by the news, so we never finished that conversation).

I asked him if he had any ideas of things I could do with the boys today and he said no.

I had an email from MIL...as she was writing it at 10:45, WH was on the phone with his dad. Apparently he left his SB party early and didn't stay for the whole thing. Probably wanted to get home to get a good night's sleep before going in to work today (he works 6 am to 6 pm)...but looks like it was moot if he was on the phone with his dad at 10:45.

Hmmmm...cracks in the ice????

HERE WE GO... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />..You are ON HIS MIND..He is wanting RELIEF for his SADNESS and her DRUG is not working...

Time for the face to face meeting:

LS: "Let's meet somewhere to JUST TALK... nothing major..just for OLD TIME'S SAKE.... I THINK THAT WOULD BE FUN".

Whatever you can say to get him to meet with you one on one, letting him know that this contact will be LIGHT with no major RELATIONSHIP TALK...

Throw the idea out..then back off and let him come up with how to proceed...

Thursday is DS8's annual music program at the high school auditorium. I will invite WH to join us for dinner prior to the concert and then we can go together as we did for DS11's Christmas program. Or if not dinner, hot chocolate after....???

Non-threatening. Low key. Kids involved. Doesn't feel like a set-up. I think this would be my best chance at getting some real face time, even though it is not one-on-one. I do not believe that he would agree to alone time with me...too scary. One step at a time....

I can let him know in advance that I will be wearing panties.

I am eager to call MIL today. Darn that time zone thing. I wonder what all transpired in the phone call between FIL and WH last night. I hate getting intel third hand.

I was saying to throw out the OFFER..without an expectation that he will be AGREEABLE...this comes across as SIS wanting to be with HIM without the KIDS..this is what he wants back..he needs to ENVISION that this can occur in YOUR FUTURE with each other..

Most likely more frequent telephone calls will occur...that's what started happening with my H...praise and thank him for CALLING..tell him that you will keep your CELL ON for NEWSBREAKS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />