just a quick thought-
You said that Wednesday you have to meet with the P.O.
I had a vision of how devasated you would feel, meeting with the PO like one of the criminals your own H fights every day. It would seem like a natural thing for you t stop buy the IL's for a moment to tell him that you were just there, and you feel AWFUL, with tears in your eyes, and you really need just a minute to talk to someone who would understand what you are going through. Seems like it would tug at his sympathy - his own wife, mother to his boys, the woman who has always been so strong, all these years, looking very tiny, very deflated, very lost.

I am NOT suggesting that you put up some false act. I suspect that after you meet with the PO you will naturally look very tiny, very deflated, very lost.

Just a thought.

allowing him to see further into your personal vulnerability.

On a seperate note - I know that you feel bad about the check he gave you - but I wanted to say that you would feel even worse if he didn'e give you a check. When the WS does not provide financial support for the family, it is aother hard blow. So, as hard as it is to see his "blood money", trust me, you would be even more upset if he was ignoring his responsiblities.

Hey Sis,

Just a thought that came to me.

When my wife was "in the fog" and wanted nothing to do with our M I would leave our wedding album out and around the house for her to happen to see.

Your WH comes by our house some so why not leave yours out for him to see?

I know from a guys POV that nothing is more beautiful than his bride on their wedding day.

*** please correct me if I'm wrong on this or if it would be too much at this point for your H. Others can answer this.

Prayers and best wishes to you and your boys - WH too.

LilSis:

I had the exact same thought as WOF5 about stopping at the house after meeting the PO. You described all the other activity going on that day. Reschedule something. Because WOF5 had it right. Maybe you stop by, and leave a note, if he isn't there. Describe why you stopped by, and that ONLY H could have made it better. In the note, make the offer to stop by Thursday before the School Activity and the boys get home or picked up.


As for the check, you asked for clarification.

He's paying you CS, something he needs to do, and will get him in trouble at the "office" if he gets behind in his payments. He knows this, and he also wants to support his kids. (The honorable thing to do... He may be lost, but he's still a good guy inside) RT knows about the obligations, Heck she's getting them from her ex. And it is safe for H to talk to RT about them. It shows that he is making progress on the D. Not real progress, but progress, to RT's beady eyes. But he could never tell her that you are refusing to accept them because you still want to get back together. Got it? And this will stand in stark contrast to the efforts that Ex Mr. RT expended by making it nice and easy. And if you allow him to move to Auto Withdrawal, then it is off the table as a LB, because it just happens.

Make it difficult for him to pay.

So, some of the following can be construed as love busters, so go with your gut. And when you go plan D, then Auto W/D is the only way to go.

Four checks a month. One for each of YOUR sons. Split into two weekly amounts

Make him deliver one each week. Week 1: DS11, Week 2: DS 8, Week 3, DS11 and Week 4: DS8

Hand delivered from WH to you, or by the hand of Son to you that week. No sticking it in the mail. No taping it to back door. No putting it on dashboard of VIBE. No leaving it on counter of your house or IL's house. Any other method gets lost and reported accordingly.

And NO RT Checks.

He may have been paying it in the past, and whatever method he is using, start modifying it as above. And get your lawyer to add it to your paperwork (that is on hold) going forward.

Sis,

The call to you about the house fire - he could never have made that call to RT, and he recognizes that. There is no history with her for these things, and as time passes, he will notice more and more.

I like that he's feeling guilty. He ought to. But it does show that he SEES what you're doing, and is thinking about it. AND TALKING ABOUT IT. He is processing it. Verry goood. Verrrry goood. I hope he just opens his heart along with his eyes.

10,000 prayers are with you. Remember that.

SB

[color:"red"]house on fire [/color]
is
very
very
rich
in symbolism

Mrs. W: If he's true to form, when confronted by his parents about why he's leaving his wife and children, WH would say (in reference to RT, of course), "But I LOVE her!" gag. Then everyone begins ripping out their own hair and screaming nonsensically.

WOF5: Because of how that day goes...my appt with the PO is RIGHT after I drop the boys off, and the courthouse is directly across the street from my office...let's just say that won't work. Wednesday during the day is PACKED. However....(stroke chin...)...Wednesday EVENING is my support group meeting...WH usually returns the boys right after I get home from that. Two weeks ago, I had a really emotional time at group...talking about my dad. When WH and the boys came home, I broke down, WH held me, and took out the garbage, etc. for the next morning.

It might be a good habit to get into...ask him if he would mind just keeping me company for a few minutes when he returns the boys, since group tends to wipe me out emotionally and if I need a shoulder, I could REALLY use his. Especially this week because I have the thing with the PO in the AM, Dr. appt. in the middle of the day, meetings at work...stressful day. And his help with the garbage/recycling doesn't hurt...

(Because actually, the PO is a great lady...very nice...very supportive and reassuring. I met her the one time, right after court and she told me to dry my eyes, I was going to be JUST FINE. In a year, I wouldn't even remember this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just so you know.)

M2L: You are on the right track, our wedding day is "the happiest day" of WH's life. But he's not in the house often enough or long enough to see the wedding album....

Regarding support, et al:

Right now, our method for support is as follows: Every pay, WH has a certain amount direct deposited into one of our joint checking accounts. From that joint account, some of the bills are auto-paid (car insurance, some of the utilities). The "remainder" of the support--that is, the $ above and beyond what is consumed by the auto-paid bills--is for other living expenses.

I set up an individual account back in September. I pay EVERYTHING on my credit card, which I pay off at the end of the month from my indiv. account. What I HAVE been doing when I need additional money is writing myself a check from our joint account, and depositing into my individual account.

It's really pretty stupid, actually. WH and I still have two joint checking accounts and two joint savings accounts...but we both set up individual accounts after we separated. Most of the bills are paid out of the joint accounts...those that aren't WH pays with his AMEX (don't ask me why). It's all just a little shell game, writing checks to myself.

LG: explain to me why having him hand me the checks works in my favor. Because I really felt strongly yesterday that I DID NOT WANT that check. For some reason, a direct depost into our joint account is fine...how we've been doing it. But to put my signature on the back of a check for "support"....ugh. A check, that I ENDORSE (think of the true meaning of word "endorse")...I don't like it. Philosophically... Am I making any sense??

WH just called. This is going to be WAAAY TMI for you non-pet lovers...it's even just about over my threshold.

A couple of weeks ago, WH bought a pet rat. Yes, a RAT. He has had them before...in college, he rescued them from certain death at the end of the term from the pysch lab. He brought a couple home then, FREAKED his mom out, but they ended up be such sweet little creatures. Even MIL fell in love with them. Go figure.

So now WH has a rat named Georgia. The boys love her. She sits up on their shoulder...whatever. I'm more a cat/dog person myself, but to each his own. At least a rat is a mammal. I could never do the whole amphibian/reptile thing.

So the phone rings. It's Private Caller...oh, I mean WH. Hi, I say, how are you doing? I'm thinking he might be ready to give me a hard time about the book and soup I left today, but he didn't say anything about that. (Darn, I thought my note was a good one) Instead, he says, "I can't believe it."
LS: What?
WH: Georgia is a momma.
LS: What?!
WH: They sold me a pregnant rat! I came home and picked her up and I thought she felt skinny.

Anyway, we chatted about it...laughing about it for a few minutes. What's he going to do with all of these baby rats... It must have been an immaculate conception, etc.... Will she eat any of the babies...

Of course the boys would be THRILLED to have a pet rat...great....

So he had me bring the phone to the boys. He asked to speak to DS8 first, and I could tell as soon as he told him about the babies, because DS8's face just LIT UP. DS8 quick leans over and tells his brother, "Georgia had babies!!" As soon as he was done and turned the phone over to DS11, DS8 grabbed my hand and asked me to sit down..."Mom, can I have a pet rat, please?"

I asked DS11 to give me the phone when he was done. I told WH how delighted DS8 was to hear about the babies, how his face lit up, and how much he wants one. I think it made WH feel good to know he had "done something" that made the boys so happy.

I confirmed with him about Weds., and mentioned that I had my group that night...so maybe it plants a seed and he won't be blindsided if I need a friendly face that night.

Anyway...I feel so good that he called...and he really talked to me...it wasn't his typical cold "Hello, may I talk to the boys, please?" He talked to ME first, and actually had a conversation. Actually wanted to share something with me.

LilSis:

To answer this:

explain to me why having him hand me the checks works in my favor.

Because it puts his obligations front and center. TO you and the Boys. That's all.

Since you have described the system used, No way to change much now. Since it is on auto-pilot, you can't mess with it. He will just up the support to the higher amount and it will get direct deposited.

Others will recommend that you seperate your Finances. He's Wayward, and can take your assets in a joint account. That would have been good advice four-five months ago. To do it now, in the middle of your sterling Plan A, would be a bad move. Doing it after Plan B ensues would be following that very good advice.

More in a bit!

Have to run!

LG


PS: Thanks for the vote of confidence! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

he's sofened up quite a lot in a short period of Plan A time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

is there a ratturd joke pending ???

somebody????

I can only think of X-rated ones right now

LS:

Another rat?

OMG, LOL

Hey, it's only a rat, but he wanted to share the information with YOU!!! That is encouraging!

I know...the whole rat/RT thing is a little spooky. Who started that nickname for OW, anyway?? Pep...was it you? There must have been a context for it, but I can't recall.

I know many people would advocate for separating finances, but it has never been an issue and he has always been very willing to do whatever I needed financially....I would imagine it's like the SF with a WS thing...different opinions, different things work for different people. And NOW is certainly not the time.

Thanks for being here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LilSis -

My boys had rats all there lives - uummmmm, not in their rooms - as pets. The nice thing about rats is they never bite, unlike pet mice, guinea pigs, lizards, snakes, and other creepy crawly things.

LilSis:

I can start a thread of RT jokes if you would like....LOL, although I think Pep will beat me to it!

But, what has happened today?

H called. And he called you. Once about the House, and then about the rat.

The soup? Eaten and enjoyed.

The book? Working its magic. Just unseen magic at the moment. Like the roses, the album, the other notes, your mannerism's and how you act.

It all starting to come together. The whole Plan A.

But those claws are still in his back, and there will be venom from WH to you as they come out. Because the Claws will be twisted.


Let me tell you something.

In the middle of my affair, which my DW didn't know about, at least at that point, I would contemplate my situation.
After discovery day, my situation would look something like this:

My future would consist of NO DW, because thats all she needed to get out. The Divorce would have been UGLY, she would make sure.
Probably no OW for me either. I knew I could "settle" for her, but I would have the second choice. Made for a sad LG.
And every other W/end and two nights a week with my DS. Made LG even sadder. Cuz he's a great kid.

And then we discovered MB.

And Mrs LG had LG's back. Learned with him about EN and LB and A/O and we connected. And it has really, really changed our lives and outlook.

Why am I telling you this?

Because that is the future that WH is seeing/realizing. But he doesn't know about MB. But LS does. And LS is making it safe for him to return. And he sees this.

A house you and he looked at, contemplated buying? It burns down.

Brings home a rat, and it's pregnant! I'm not going there....

But he called you first. And you didn't call him crazy, or stupid, or that's disgusting. You talked like two people dating.

Your Plan A is going great.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

It's GREAT that he is calling YOU!!!

Two times in one day...

WONDERFUL!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ANOTHER snow day....The roads are just a frozen mess...sheets of ice; too cold for the salt to work.

Okay...bad news last night that I'm going to need to share with WH sooner or later. ADVICE NEEDED.

Every August for the past six years, we have rented a cottage on a lake up north. I asked my best friend if she and her girls would like to join the boys and I this summer (she's a teacher so she's flexible). In December, the owner of the cottage called to ask if I would be willing to switch weeks to accomodate someone's family reunion. I gave it some thought, but said no...if we went later, it would be more difficult for my BF as she's starts prepping for the school year, and we would NOT be up there for DS8's b-day...which we have always celebrated at the cottage. The owner was totally understanding.

Around Christmas, I got the little card to send in my deposit by Feb. 1 to reserve my spot. My fault...take total resposibility...I put it off and lost the card, but it was in the back of my mind. Yesterday I emailed her and asked for the amount of the deposit and the address to send it.

She replied that she had already rented it...it's booked for the season.

On the one hand, it is my fault for not sending in the deposit, for procrastinating. On the other hand, we have been coming the same week every year for six years. We are on first name basis with the owners. I told her in December that I intended to come back. I guess I would have expected a courtesy phone call before she rented it out from under me.

WH had asked me about the cottage a few weeks ago. I told him that I intended to go with the boys...he took them last summer. When I told him, he looked crestfallen (I've never actually used that word before!).

I always had this image that we would go there every year. DS8 especially LOVES it there....he's been going since he was 2. It's beautiful, we all love it. I SO wanted to develop a family tradition...something I never had as a kid.

EVERYONE is going to be terribly disappointed, and it's MY FAULT. I have to tell WH...because I've lost our week now, for good. I screwed up.

Now PART of me is really giving myself a break. I made a MISTAKE. Miss Perfect would be 2x4ing myself over and over, but new LilSis KNOWS FULL WELL that it's NOT the end of the world.

But it breaks my heart to disappoint my family. I feel like I let THEM down. I can forgive myself for screwing up....BUT can I forgive myself for disappointing them?

Remember...for my whole life, I have felt that I had to EARN love. In my world, love has always been conditional....WH PROVED that. The A was the nail in that coffin. I wasn't GOOD ENOUGH as a wife...all my striving to be PERFECT just wasn't good enough.

Of course I know now---INTELLECTUALLY---that is not true. And all my striving to be perfect was, in fact, my downfall.

So...as I was sobbing last night, mourning the loss of our "tradition" and fearing my family's reaction...I thought: is this an opportunity to come clean with WH? Do I tell him about the cottage...letting him know how hard it is for me to admit that I screwed up...how scary it is to me..and why?

I have to tell him. He deserves to know. I think in his mind, he thought we could switch years or something....who knows. But I know for CERTAIN he didn't want to lose it. And I lost it.

PLEASE ADVISE!

LilSis,

You have hit on an area of expertise for me in both areas!

I know you are dealing with a fog bound WH mind, but I can tell you whenever I fessed up to my H about my lack of perfection, he was happy. I still struggle with it. Just last week he asked me about how I wanted something done and I had to walk in the other room and kind of do the "count to ten" thing before I came back and gave him an answer. I told him I had to get my perfectionist under control before I could answer him. Otherwise, I would have made a big deal about something that really, really, really didn't need to be perfect (or anywhere near it).

This attitude of mine also comes from the "earning love" idea. My sincere wish for you is - in the near future your H will return and after going through recovery work will tell you the A had nothing to do with you and everything to do with him. Whenever I tried to take responsibility for any part of the A, my H told me NO! He allows me to carry me share of blame for the condition of our marriage, but never for the choices he made regarding the A. The one part of the A that I am (word here? can't say grateful) for is that I now know H loves me just as I am.

As far as the cottage goes - are there other resorts or rental homes in the same area? Tradition can be going "up north" every year, not necessarily to the exact same place. You might find a place you like even better -someplace "perfect" for you - but you would never find that if you hadn't made a very little, very minor mistake in a time of severe stress. (See, I told you I was a glass half full kind of person).

29 below here today! Schools are open.

Thank you, SHOL. I do feel the need to tell him...he would absolutely want to know. And if it allows me a chance to show him my changes, I guess it might be a silver lining.

A step further....do I tell him that admitting this is difficult for me...and WHY? or just take responsibility, apologize, and leave it at that?

Yes...there are lots of other places to go...and even if we were/are to recover, a change of pace might be good. Turns out the last two years that we were there, he was on the phone w/ RT A LOT. (As a matter of fact, it was one of the trips we went on that she referenced in her I HAVE THE POWER email...she was just kidding, though! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> )

Yeah, we are wussies here...I grew up in the UP and temp was never an issue. I think that down here they just don't have quantities of the ultra-cold snow melt stuff...we rely primarily on salt, which doesn't work at these temps. Current temp = -1. Balmy, eh?

Thanks, shol. Let me know what you think.