Darn! 'Cause I'm tempted to....and not because it's a joke. (What a fun little tradition by the way!)

We don't really have anything like that...but there are other things that I've been throwing at him left and right. Inside jokes, interesting locales where we shared a moment, our usual order on Friday AM, things no one else would know about either of us because they were things we shared alone. Labor/childbirth stories. Our little foibles...things you THANK GOD only a spouse knows. Referring to stuff we used to talk about all the time, places we visited, etc..

C-ly-b is as close as I have....but I'll give it some thought in case something is slipping my mind....

mimi: Victoria's Secret shaping demi. Not too plungy, and if it is, they also have a full coverage one. Plenty o' lift. The girls are sittin' pretty now.

What exactly does "C-ly-b" stand for?

Mimi...

Have you tried Wacoal Bras? FABULOUS!!! Also I like Felina and Le Mystere(sp?)-really beautiful ones...Nordstrom, Neimans and Saks carry them...

Also, here is a link for a custom fitted bra that is supposedly wonderful-the picture isn't all that though... It's All You Bra Let me know if you decide to do this one, as I have been considering it, even though mine are still "up there"...so far! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And Sis, I don't just smell a rat, I smell a RAT [color:"brown"]TURD[/color]!!! YUCK and GAG!!! I know you'll make the concert wonderful for DS8!!!

Mrs. W

I would try to find something new. or maybe a new spin on something old. That way he doesn't relate it back to the old you, the old M, ya know what I mean. Something between two friends, not between a husband and wife.


Hey, I'll have to check out that bra, after 2 kids mine aren't exactly where they should be either, they just aren't as low as hers were.

Careful-Love you-Bye

It began when we first got married and he was working third shift. I'd always say that before he left. Every night. Eventually, it became our ritual, anytime goodbye. All in one biglongphrasealmostrunningtogether.

I have been wondering that same thing, but was too afraid ask. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I feel low. I did not take advantage of a great opportunity, as a matter of fact I probably didn't score any points, and now I am kicking myself.

Went to the concert. WH showed up about two minutes before it began. Luckily he was in his seat (between DS11 and I) before DS8 walked by with his class...so DS8 knew he was there. We chatted a minute...I asked what he had for dinner...he indicated that he had leftovers. I had texted him an invite for his favorite dinner...roast, mashed potatoes and gravy.

He looked scruffy. He hadn't shaved today...maybe even not yesterday. Apparently he broke his tailbone sledding with the kids, so he was uncomfortable sitting.

A couple of times through the concert, I let my hand drop on his upper thigh, he didn't remove it like I thought he would. Every once in a while I would whisper something (like a little girl on stage who obviously had to go to the bathroom), and we'd make eye contact and smile. I looked good and smelled good (just so you know...that's sort of a given...I don't tend toward the slovenly)

One of the songs was a repeat from last year, when DS8's class sang it...called "I Promise." "When I make a promise, I will keep it..." DS8 used to sing that around the house. I turned my head to look right at WH, who stared straight ahead at the stage, chewing HARD on his gum. I could see those jaw muscles working.

After it was over, we were walking outside and WH offered the boys a chance to ride home with him. DS8 opted to ride with dad, DS11 with me. DS11 asked if WH would have some hot chocolate, and WH said he would come in for a little bit.

We arrived home and WH came in. He took off his wet sloppy shoes by the back door (just like he would ordinarily), and he went to use the bathroom. Meanwhile, I sent DS11 out to the truck with the six roses I had gotten earlier in the afternoon. I started making the hot chocolate. WH had picked up his mail and was flipping through it, sitting at the kitchen table. I asked if he wanted me to box up some of the left over roast and potatoes; he declined. DS11 finished making the hot chocolate and presented WH with his.

WH was telling me that I should use the money to get new tires on the Vibe. I had been telling him earlier that the steering wheel had a bad vibration in it (I actually think it is all the frozen road crud that is caked inside the wheel wells). I just looked at him with a smiling, blank look. He asked when I had the oil changed...I told him it wasn't due yet on miles. He told me that didn't matter...it's cold out and needs to be done at three months regardless. I asked if he wanted to take the Vibe to Phoenix...he said he wanted to drive the van.

Oh...now I get it...I bet he wants to take the van so he can fill it up with stuff from Ikea for his new "pad" (where ever that's going to be...DS11 told me that WH was looking online at houses in the school district a couple of weeks ago).

I got out DS11's standarized test scores to show him...WH kind of laid in to DS11 about the C+ in language arts and how he needs to be responsible. I just sat back and let the chips fall. When he was done, I mouthed, "thank you."

By then, the hot chocolate was long gone, and WH got up to leave. I followed him down by the back door...and I have NO IDEA why I did this...2x4, 2x4, 2x4...I brought up the Phoenix/Chicago weekend. I threw out the possiblity of my sister, and he threw out the possibility of BIL/SIL who live here in town (which would be WAY easier). As he was getting ready to leave, I reached up and gave him a nice hug, which he reluctantly one-armed back. I kissed him on the neck and then the cheek...said ILY...and he was out the door like a flash.

I stood in the doorway and watched as he opened the door and found the roses. He turns back and says, "Hey...don't.." in kind of a whiny voice. I just quick smiled and waved by and shut the door so he couldn't bring them back to me. He climbed in and backed out.

I called his cell just after he got out of the driveway and it went to VM at the first ring...which I assume means he was already on the phone to RT. I left a VM..."Since you told me that the first six froze, I had to get you some replacements. It was really nice to see you tonight and spend time with you. I promise that tomorrow I will go get the oil changed. ILY, bye."

I went back into the kitchen where the boys were finishing up a snack. DS11 looked forelorn. I think he was feeling badly that his dad had given him a hard time about his grades. He SHOULD feel bad about getting such a poor grade...he makes excuses instead of doing the work...plain and simple. But I think that he was sort of like a hit and run. WH blasted him, then took off...there was no opportunity for them to sort of come back together and for DS11 to feel accepted and loved by WH.

The thing is...I have watched this dynamic in the past...that's how WH works. He comes down hard...but then later, he comes back in softness... and it works for him. So he's not a tyrannt...but not a pushover either. He makes his point very clearly--sometimes harshly, but later makes sure the boys know he loves them, too.

But now he's GONE. So like tonight...there isn't an opportunity for them to come back together, for WH to show the softer side after going off on DS11.

I encouraged DS11 to call WH, but DS11 said that it wasn't a conversation that he could have on the phone. "When do I get to see Dad next?" he asked. Not until Monday after school...so I convince DS11 that a phone call would be okay...at least maybe he and WH could set up a time over the next couple of days (WH is working) that they could get together.

So DS11 calls...gets VM. Doesn't want to leave a message.

I texted WH: Are you there? No answer, no call.

So just a bit ago (kids are now in bed) I called and left WH a VM: "I hate to do this over VM...just wanted you to know that I think DS11 really wanted to re-connect with you after your interaction here tonight. I'll leave it to you, but I thought you should know. Love you, bye."

So now I'm feeling completely defeated...so not only did I blow this incredible opportunity (I was SO going to say something about the where do I get sex thing..DARN. 2x4 again), but DS11 is down, now, too.

Silver linings, anyone?

LS:

What went wrong?

Really?

He came in, hung around. Didn't hide, didn't argue.

Allowed you to touch him during the concert. Didn't move his leg to remove your hand.

He was pleasant. You were pleasant.

You can use the SEX line next time. The time wasn't right this time.

The flowers were? A reminder. They had thier intended effect.

And your attempt to discuss the AZ/Chicago W/E? If he had stayed around, you could have discussed it at the kitchen counter. But he decided to go. He didn't respond by saying "We'll talk about it later" NO 2/4's required for this. At least in MVHO.

Relax, look how stressful (or depressing) these interactions used to be. You in the house, WH in car and the kids walking into the house. WH leaving. Now, he comes in, no argument.

This Plan A thing? It's working for ya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You know what it is...

I feel the pressure to blow him away at every opportunity. I suppose that's an unrealistic expectation of myself.

I also feel like you all are such great cheerleaders that I'm fearful of letting you all down if I don't do this PERFECTLY. (huh...wonder where that comes from)

Related to that, though, is that I'm ALSO fearful of wanting SO badly to believe that what I'm doing is having an effect that I let your cheerleading blind me to another possible reality.

I'm NOT saying that I don't want the cheerleading...because I NEED it...but I want you all to keep challenging me as well.

BTW, LG...I'm with you on the check. It's on the fridge, and on the fridge it will stay. It's a great suggestion to leave it right in his lap...it's on the fridge if you need it. I don't want it.

Followed up the brief VM I left earlier with this email to WH. He probably won't get it until tomorrow evening; I don't think he will check email before work, and doesn't have internet access during the day.

Hi.
I didn't mean to unload on you about DS11 on voice mail. I wanted to share what happened after you left. I could tell that he was really wishing he had a chance to "make it right" with you tonight. You know how he does that...kind of comes across as Irritating Pre-adolescent Boy...but give him a little time and he comes back apologizing and looking for some kind of reassurance. Unfortunately, by the time he came around, you were already gone and he was just left feeling sad, and in a way that I couldn't make better.

And I felt helpless.

I just thought you'd want to know about DS11. I have watched the two of you play out that little dance over and over again with each other and it works so well for you...you are two of a kind! He's his daddy's boy.

I know that you love him and he loves you, and I know that you'll do whatever is best.

Have a good night, and stay warm tomorrow. Thanks for coming by here tonight. It felt right for you to be here. If you feel like stopping by for a cup of coffee tomorrow, let me know. I'll get a pot brewing. I've got some new creamer that's yummy! Vanilla Chai Spice. You'd like it. Not quite as good as an <his favorite 400 cal coffee drink>, but I can drink this one in my robe and slippers without having to go out.

Wasn't it something to see DS8 up there tonight? He's still just our little boy...freedom and joy.

Love you
me

Have you noticed that I have been trying to provide you with DOSES OF REALITY? I believe that ACCEPTANCE OF REALITY IS HEALTHY AND GOOD....

It may be a play on words but remember the goal is not to have an effect on HIM. The goal of PLAN A is to CHANGE YOURSELF..to make CHANGES that YOU find to be PERSONALLY WORTHWHILE AND VALUABLE. You CANNOT REALLY CHANGE HIM..only yourself. In the end, whether you recover your marriage or not, you can feel good about the person that you have become...You definitely have accomplished this goal!

You know this already, Sis. You communicate this often. This comes as a reminder...

This is soo worth repeating for everybody.

Hey LilSis, c'mere...

{{{{{{{{{I'm So Proud of You}}}}}}}}}}

You are truly a paragon, imperfect is real, think diamonds.

Thanks for the reminder about MY CHANGES, mimi.

Actually, my therapist and I had a WONDERFUL conversation about this EXACT THING yesterday. I recounted it in another thread yesterday. I was telling my therapist about what I am doing related to WH...okay, not ALL of it (panties)...TMI even to my therapist. But I told him about the roses, our conversations, my being open, etc.

He has called my growth "remarkable." (that really feeds the ego, BTW...the drug of validation!) AND he challenged me to examine WHY I grew and became more open, compassionate and loving ("blossomed") through this experience...INSTEAD of closing up and becoming bitter and dark and angry.

Initially, I said that it was just survival instinct...live or die/sink or swim. But he wouldn't let me get away with that (he never lets me get away with things)...because that is actually a CHOICE. Why did I CHOOSE to live/swim?

Then I said it, flat out: I'm not a quitter. And he got a big smile on his face...like that's what he was waiting for me to say. He told me that I said that like I OWNED it. And I do! Then he took it further...asked me how I FELT about myself for making that choice...and got me (eventually, because I didn't want to) admit that I was PROUD of myself for making the choice to crawl out of the pit and live again...love again. Unselfishly. With compassion and forgiveness in my heart.

I was actually kind of nervous about telling him about putting myself out there for WH, making myself vulnerable to hurt, working out of love without expectation of return. I thought he might disapprove (thus no validation high). He questioned me about it...what are my motivations, what are my TRUE expectations, how will I know when I need to pull back. I told him all of the stuff that I've shared with you all here...so you know the answers as well as I do...and it was so helpful to have actually processed this stuff ahead of time.

At the end, he actually congratulated me for being able to do this...that I had thought this all through, that I PROCESS the hurt that I experience when I'm rejected, that I continue to evaluate my feelings and "where I am" emotionally.

Anyway...this all made me feel really good, because my therapist isn't one who throws compliments lightly or is at all directive. He always wants me to come to my own conclusions...which can be frustrating at times, but I guess that's the best way. He pushes, pushes, pushes all the time. I think he's really good, can you tell?

This is going to sound ungrateful or mean. Here's my fear: because I want so badly to believe...I just worry sometimes that it's just all a lot of blowing sunshine. As long as you PROMISE ME that you are actually telling me what you BELIEVE and OBSERVE and not what you think I WANT TO HEAR...?? YOUR HONEST ASSESSMENTS of how I'm doing and what you discern from WH's reactions. Then I'm fine.

And that sounds awful...like I'm accusing my cheerleaders of being dishonest...I'm not! But cheerleaders keep on cheering even when the team's losing, right? I don't want to listen to the cheerleaders and not see the scoreboard.

Gosh...I wish I could say this in a way that doesn't sound horrible...and still makes my point.

Please don't shoot me....???

No sunshine enemas here I promise.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey LilSis-

I never posted to you before, but I am one (of many) that reads your thread with interest.

I just wanted to let you know that I've seen you grow so much over the past few months. It's a beautiful thing to watch. People here are not "just being nice". You have come a long way and you deserve all the cheering you get.

Keep at it- you are doing well. I wish I had your spunk.

Best wishes-
~Saturn

I KNOW I've changed. I'm a different person. I LOVE LOVE LOVE my changes. Yippee for me!!! Hooray!! I'm so enthusiastic about my changes!

....but I still want my marriage. BADLY. I don't want the EVIL to consume and destroy an honorable man to whom I made a promise to love and cherish in good times and bad. I don't want to be alone. I don't want my boys to grow up in a broken home. I am afraid.

It's my Achillie's heel.

Does that make ANY SENSE??? It barely does to me, so hopefully someone can relate on an emotional level so I know I'm not crazy.

****

BTW: My therapist was especially glad that I was clear that my primary motivation was to know that I had done ALL THAT I COULD DO to save my marriage...to be able to look myself in the mirror and never regret, never wonder "what if."

LilSis,

I am right there with you! I TOTALLY understand the feeling of being proud of myself for the changes I've made thru the most incredibly difficult time of my life.

AND

A sense of accomplishment, and even a sense of peace that is disrupted at times when we allow that huge dose of FEAR creep in. No matter how many good things come to pass, when you start to let the Fear Monster out of the box, it can overwhelm you.

I have many new favorite sayings, but one I use a lot these days is "Great Accomplishments require Great Risk"

You know it's true. You know you are willing and ABLE to take those risks. You are doing it every day by making yourself vunerable, open, honest, things that have come with a lot of hard work on your part.

Don't get discouraged! Re-read your own posts about your growth, the things you have done and are doing for YOU! Allow yourself to also be one of your biggest Cheerleaders, too!

Continue to give yourself the credit you so richly deserve. When that Fear Monster starts to creep out, allow youself to bask in the light of your accomplishments and keep coming here for backup!

LilSis:

Why do you think your thread extends over 160 pages?

Because no one, I repeat, no one, around here is blowing sunshine at you.

Are we cheerleaders? Yes. But we are also the coach's. You can even see us squabbling among ourselves about how to help you through the next quarter of the game.

As I stated on my first post an your thread, you have come a llooonnnggg way from the face slapping perfection woman of your first thread.

Why, because you are not a quitter. And others realized this early on and provided support and others came around as needed to help fill in the blanks.

You have seen the lowest of the lows, (two nights in jail!) And your journey from there is fascinating. Your heart has been on your sleeve and not in any maudlin manner, nor a whiney "why me" way. There it is. And slowly, day by day, that heart on the sleeve has grown stronger, vibrant and bursting with love.

So, you see the scoreboard and the cheerleaders. And they are in sync.

However, the only caveat? You are playing against a team that does not feel any need to play by the rules. So, we try to pass out the doses of reality every know and then.

You will be great after all this. You will be bringing flowers in the future to your probation officer, wondering with her why the criminal justice system ever had to get involved in your life. And what a complete and utter waste of time that case was.

And your H, if he doesn't see the light, will be wondering why in the He!! he ever let you go.

Because he never was able to put his heart on his sleeve and allow it to grow like you have.

LG

And LS: So many around here are so jealous of you actually getting to slap the OW..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Sis:

You are blessed to have a GREAT THERAPIST!! Mine was like yours... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Isn't it me that's been having trouble with not seeing him as WAYWARD SPOUSE..PERIOD..END OF STORY...?

Isn't it me that been having trouble with encouraging you to look for GLIMPSES OF THE REAL HUSBAND..?

Isn't me that told you yesterday that he is probably spending the night with RT..and will probably continue to do so?

I WILL BE STRAIGHT SHOOTER ABOUT HIM NOW, OK? Do you want that? You said that this might make you lose your motivation.

Now about YOU and what YOU ARE DOING..IT'S GOING TO BE ALL GOOD..as long as you keep trying and doing your best... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />