See...I knew you'd get frustrated with me.

I REALLY appreciate the fact that you are calling me out on these things so that I can process them. Yesterday, for example...you put it out there that I was trying to arrange things and told me to quit it. Ding, ding ding! It all made sense.

At the SAME time, I know for MYSELF that I DO need to see those glimpses to keep my motivation...AND I need YOU need to keep challenging me to remember that they are just GLIMPSES. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Get it?

Do I want you to be a straight shooter??? GULP. Yes....and no, of course. I want you to be straight with me, but I don't want bad news, either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

So...I guess I want it both ways!! (who doesn't) One: to be challenged about my own behavior and expectations and shortcomings (coach?). Two: to be constantly reassured that this will lead to happiness (cheerleader?).

Of course, I will show you my Achillie's heel again...right now "happiness" is defined as a recovered marriage.

Ouch...it hurts to say that...I'm being REALLY HONEST HERE. That's the deep, dark truth of it for me...I just revealed it... (see me cowering behind my keyboard to deflect the daggers)

mimi...does this make sense to you...even if you don't agree or take issue with some/all of it? I want to know if you are getting what I'm trying to say.

LS,

There was absolutely nothing wrong with that interaction. You are being way too hard on yourself. You don't have to "blow him away" with every interaction.

I know my FWH appreciated the days where I just seemed "normal". He would tell me that sometimes he thought I was actually going crazy b/c I was always so nice and loving no matter what he did. And you didn't even LB. I had a couple of days where I LB'd all over the place and didn't care one whit while I was doing it.

You can't be all sunshine and sweetness every second of every day, but I don't recommend LBing like I did either.

And I will reiterate what everyone else has said. We are definately not going to blow sunshine up your a$$. I mentioned to you in a post yesterday that your rollercoaster is picking up speed. I wasn't kidding. The more feal H responds positively to your plan A the more the WH is going to fight against it. You will more than likely see him switch drastically back and forth at times. But you are much stronger than you give yourself credit for, you have to be to make the decision to fight for your M.

And yes, I am one of those BS's that is extremely envious you got to slap your OW. I still daydream about it occasionally.

We all felt that way I'm sure. I know I did. However, I was worse, I wouldn't even post on GQII b/c they were telling me things I didn't want to hear. They kept telling me FWH was still in the A but I couldn't/didn't want to believe my H was lying to me. I stayed away from here b/c I couldn't handle the things they were trying to tell me. They definately weren't blowing any sunshine my way.

None of us want to hear the bad news. It sucks. There are days you can take it in stride and there are others where you don't know how you can make it another day. But you do.

You will get to a point, usually around plan B time that you will see that happiness does not just mean recovering your M.

I will share a little bit more about my trip to take my kids to my parents. This was an 8 hour drive each way. I dreaded this drive by myself, I didn't think I could do it without H. I tried like he77 to get someone to go with me but noone could. I am so thankful for that. That was the most liberating trip for me. It was when I realized I was going to be happy no matter what the outcome.

I stopped whenever I wanted to stop, I listened to whatever music I wanted to listen to. I sang at the top of my lungs and danced in my seat. People around me probably thought I was nuts. On my way back I stopped at this little store that I have always wanted to stop at but H wasn't interested so we ofcourse we never stopped. I took my time, I enjoyed being by myself.

On that drive home I made plans for me. I got home Saturday evening and started right away on my list. I had always wanted to actually decorate my kids rooms with a theme, so I went shopping that night and bought everything I needed. I started on Sunday. I didn't know how I was going to move furniture but I found a way. I did it all by myself.

I knew after that weekend that I would be happy, I hoped it would be with H but either way I would be happy.

I read your posts and I feel like you are so much stronger than I ever was. All I see for you is happiness no matter what the outcome.

Like Daze says..I did learn that I could be HAPPY ALONE...

That's why I love reading about Believer's life..

I think that my life would be much like hers...

I even act "as if" sometimes..giving myself an EXIT PLAN......

Like yesterday my H was out of town and I said to myself..this is what it would be like if I was all alone..I ate what I wanted to for dinner..spent more time on the computer...went shopping just for fun...

From PLAN A and CONTINUED PERSONAL RECOVERY WORK..I've found myself...Well, I'M A NEW ME.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sis ~ I am a firm believer that recovery - real honest to goodness recovery can not happen until the BS has made the type of changes to self that you are going through right now.


It's a long growing process - honestly, the 2 year time frame for an affair is about right - it can take that long for the BS to go through the inital stages of hurt and rage and then settle in to plan A.

We have lots and lots of BSes show up on MB. Many of them leave when they find there are no shortcuts, no quick fixes, or better yet, when they find out that they have to change.

You've done great - your thread is a great example of how an affair plays out and how Plan A and B factor into it.

No one is blowing sunshine, you are truely doing a great job of demonstrating how this works.

Even if your husband never returns - YOU will be a success story.

Surviving an affair does not equal "making the WS see the error of his ways and come home".

Surviving an affair means that YOUR life is not destroyed, and you come out on the other side, regardless of marital recovery, as a better person for it.

You have a great therapist, really, don't ever give her up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now, I missed the whole boob conversation...but I have to relate to you...

My husband's OW was VERY manipulative. I used to describe her as an evil chameleon; she became my husband's dream girl to a "T" - it was scarey as heck because I knew that there was NO SUCH REAL WOMAN out there ANYWHERE!

Now, I have the saggy boob thing going on after nursing three children for at least a combined 4 years. My husband has always liked nice breasts. And thats when the OW totally overplayed herself - she spent over 10K on surgery, including huge breast implants - and .told my husband that she'd done it for him.

(heeheehee snicker snicker snicker) That was a huge fog buster for my husband. He was horrified at what she had done, the medical risk, and carcicature of a woman that she had become. He was VERY happy to return home to my very real natural saggy body!


So don't worry, WS may like her perky things - but YOUR H loves your body just fine.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <~~~ me, thinking to myself "who in their right mind would think I would blow sunshine up their MB forum [censored]?"

I blow napalm sometimes ... but if it is sunny, I'll say so <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

OMG, BR..I have got to get that EAT MANGOES NAKED BOOK...Will I begin to FEEL THE LOVE FOR MY SAGGY BODY.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, everyone. I'm glad you understand...even though I am articulating it so poorly. I also take comfort in believer's posts...for exactly the same reason. I told my therapist yesterday that I would FEEL it when I was at a point to take myself off the table (Plan B, but he's not familiar with the term). He thought that was a good response...the FEELING part...not KNOWING...but FEELING...

BUT...I had a NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY thought... (MEDC, close your eyes this time...I'm warning you!)

Maybe it was LG's thing about the other team not playing by the rules. So...what if I bent mine just a bit....

What if.... I would agree to deposit that check on ONE CONDITION: that WH agrees to spend six hours (or whatever time) ALONE with me and has to do WHATEVER I ASK.

Okay...kinda icky, right? But...also fun to think about...it's been seven months to the day since I've had SF. And technically, he's paying me, not the other way around...right? And we ARE married...

Let the fireworks commence (MEDC if you made it this far don't say I didn't warn you). I better not hear crickets or I will be sorely disappointed in you people.

From an affair busting perspective this is one of those risky things that could either make or break you.

If he goes for it and you get him to "cheat" on her you have crippled the exclusivity and sacredness of THAT coupling...it is now as defaced as your own marriage has been [poetic justice].

If keeping his affair pristine [ok I know that sounds crazy but I'm speaking WSease here bear with me] is a big motivator to NOT reconnect with you...yeah it could work.

On the other hand ...assuming that you get him to do it and instead he is repulsed...well that doesn't help move the ball foreward does it?

You'd have to calculate the risk based on info that I couldn't possibly have.

Incidentally....

As he is a few years into his affair I would have to guess that he is now experiencing some degree of diminishing returns as the affair becomes normalized and entrenched.

The good thing is that sex with you may compare more favorably than it would have at the peak of the lust and infatuation period.

The bad thing is that he is likely moving into a place of genuine emotional attachment as well as lust/infatuation.

Personally if I were going to do it..I would be very strategic about it.

Wait for the opportune moment...when the affair is waning and she begins to love bust.

Well, you are right about one thing....I won't ever accuse you of blowing sunshine, noodle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Sis (quick aside to Mimi) ~ Mimi, one of the hardest parts of intimacy in my marriage has been acceptance that my husband is NOT disgusted by my very imperfect body. The problem is mine, not his. Body image is so hard, and yes, I think SARKs books are perfect for learning self-acceptance - especially of body imperfections..

It's one of those things that works for you and against you at the same time.

On the one hand...in the height of the affair you have zero chance of comparing favorably.

On the other...he now may feel emotionally as "married" and faithfull to her as he did to you and that is a whole other can of worms.

When it gets to that point you do have to assume a quasi OW role and feel along the cracks and vulnerabilities in THAT relationship just exactly like she did in yours.

Unfortunately SHE will not be as clueless as you were.

Fortunately he probably WILL be and also her attempts to hang the [censored] on will come across as controlling and unattractive ~if~ you play your cards right.

Everyone can be manipulated.

Just call me Morticia.

totally agree with Noodle here...

As distasteful as it sounds, you have to work on his vulnerabilties (which you know better than she!) and encourage him to 'cheat' on her.

Yes she will be more wary than you were, but you are far more experienced....

Taking in all in...keep 'em coming...

Please also consider the impact of simply MAKING THE OFFER.

I would ASSUME he would not agree to it...for all the reasons above...(he doesn't see us as married anymore, etc.)...but by MAKING THE OFFER, am I making a clear statement that I am an actual WOMAN who is desirous of meeting his need for SF, and has a need for SF, too?

Planting a seed...even if he refuses...perhaps even making the offer as a "joke" and gague his response...get him thinking

I would not make the offer until I had layed the tracks [seduction].

That is how she got around his "faithfullness" barrier because that is what works with him.

If you actually want to accomplish the goal of getting him to cheat you will have to plan your strategy around that goal.

It's also relevent info for future reference..he is seduceable.

Carefull not to go to far into the land of disrespect it gets harder and harder to find your way out.

i am not sure about this yet.....i like the idea of you seducing him.
i don't like the idea of offering it as a joke.
and here is why.....i am not sure how you and H were (sexually)before.....i don't like the idea of him thinking you are messing w/ him....and i just have this nagging feeling that your H might see it that way.