LilSis:

Very, Very Dangerous right now.

For the reasons Noodle noted. And others.

But I like it.

Six hours? Might be asking a lot. (unless..snicker.. the check is for a multiple of that amount...;)

Text of email:

WH:

I keep looking at this check on the fridge that you dropped off. I understand why you gave it to me. The court has ordered this additional amount. And you really want to support our boys. If the number had been twice that, I'm sure the check would have been for this higher amount. (I so desperatly what to get the word obligation in here, but can't seem to work it in...)

I would like to propose a solution.

I would like you to come over to our house and spend six hours with me, and possibly the boys, within the next week.

It spite of all that has happened, I still enjoy that you come in for hot chocolate. You deserve to be here longer than that.

We could start the six hours at 1:00 in the afternoon, pick up the boys together after school and then spend the rest of the afternoon with the boys. The boys need to see that the tension that can be around us sometimes can be minimized.

(And LS, this is the most difficult part..)

I promise to keep the conversation on topics that are important. The boys activities in school (YOU were awesome with DS11 last night), our plans for the week of March 17, what we are going to do about all this snow, the tragic loss of Anna Nicole, whatever you would like to talk about.

Thinking of you, and I promise to wear panties when you arrive...

LS

I also wanted to add on the negative possibilities side of the scale...

A lot of FWSs at some point do SEE the manipulations for what they were and RESENT them.

>ahem<

Seducing someone is not a respectfull action...it does treat them like a thing or a toy but definitely not a peer.

It's a razors edge you walk...you are his wife...you have every right to seek sex with him...but you and I [and he] know full well that what we are aiming at here is to get him to CHEAT on the person he has cast his loyalty with.

How woudl you feel if he flat out refused and was appalled that you even suggested it?

What if you joked about it and he flipped out and said "no way in he77!!"

What if he DID take you up on it and then still all this WH fog - would you feel used?

IT's a hard call- it has the potential to make you feel used and crappy and make a HUGE withdrawl from your lovebank- or work totally in your favor.

ANd it can be hard to tell how much love busting is going on in affair land.

LS, when you snuggle up next to his neck and kiss his good-bye....did you ever you pull back a little and look him in the eye.......were you able to get a read on his what he is feeling?

LS:

You will note from my email, I add the boys. He can see it as a compromise.

So, it's still dangerous.

But, if you sense that your WH is wavering, and you have an opportunity to push him your way, you should do it. Because YOU WANT TO DO EVERTHING YOU CAN to save this M.

But instead of a SHOVE, (Outright seducing) you need to NUDGE, (make him start to feel comfortable with you again)

Because this is happening. The Nudgeing.

OK?

See...I KNEW this would be an a-bomb. Remember, I was just throwing this out there to see what (if any) pieces would stick. Get the creative juices flowing.

What I was trying to explore is whether there is a way to use the check as a tool. How can it be exploited, if at all? I've already used it to make a clear statement....maybe that's enough. And to exploit it would lessen the impact of that statement...that IN ITSELF is probably reason enough not to do anything with it.

On the fridge is the best place for it, but it's fun to speculate....like I said...seven months...

But I'm sure open to other new ideas...cookies are getting stale (ha ha)

Valentine's Day...I got a card.... (OT...I was actually quite disgusted by the number of "To the Man I Love" cards. UGH. I kept picturing RT picking one out...). Should I deliver the seven roses on that day? Anything else? He doesn't like chocolate. Maybe one of those little bitty cakes from the bakery that he likes? It's got raspberries on top...???

My b-day (and MIL's, coincidentally) is the day after. Another connection between MIL and I.

Interesting tidbit...WH is NOT a gift-giver. Not a big deal to me, honestly. I'd rather have a nice dinner out and a quiet evening at home. RT told me once that she was so fond of birthdays; she'd be so "hurt" if someone didn't make a big deal of her birthday. Now I wonder if she said that to plant a seed of dissatisfaction in me (no dice), or if that was her true feeling...if so, she won't be happy with WH's efforts in that regard.

Another issue I'd like feedback on... (since you are all so accomodating!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Any suggestions for tidbits that MIL might drop WH's way? Any cracks that she could exploit? I see her--potentially---as my LB voice. WH in a sense HAS to listen to her because she's his mom, and she can say things that I CAN'T because they would be LBs coming from me.

Now I recognize that they're still LBs coming from MIL, but...

Or is the fact that he's a crack addicted WH make any commentary from her pointless?

I guess I feel like I'm not maximizing the potential role that MIL could play at this point. She's kind of taken a step back at this point...but I could ask her to join the fight a little more actively.

Ideas/reactions?

Well Lil Sis, it has been my experience with my ex WH that even if he did not buy gifts and be as attentive with me on birthdays, holidays, he certainly did do it for the OW...PUKE..you did say you want reality and not sunshine blowing...that is a fact that most of us can account for. As sick as it may be, it was true in my case.

I don't have much time to talk at the moment..

But I agree with LG on this one...

Ahhh...just occurred to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

WH never GOT to seven roses. He got to six, then he proposed, giving me all 57 that he "owed" me (7+8+9+10+11+12).

Kinda sad.

The main thing your MIL can do comes NATURAL to her..not be ACCEPTING OF THE AFFAIR AND/OR RT..PERIOD...END OF STORY...

He wants her to say it's OK...

There was a post a few pages back tha tyou and I must have read differently.
a WW (don't remember who now )mentioned that she was havign dinner w/ her mother and the mother asked somethign along the lines of...so, what DID H do that led to you have this affair?
since her H had been plan Aing she found herself having to REALLY THINK about him and saw him a very different light than before the affair.

maybe if H is forced to the time to really think about YOU....he'll start thinking about what he has to loose.

LilSis,

The gift thing reminded me...you may be on sensory overload with reading right now, but the "5 Love Languages" is what put my H's A is total clarity for me. Dovetails nicely into the EN idea.

You can do tests to see what yours are online & check out some basic info about it if you don't want to read the whole book.

Umm.. that's ONE goal. But another goal of plan A, *is* to have an effect on your spouse. To demonstrate that you can be a spouse that is "attractive" to be with, even though you may not have been in the past.
But then add in what you just said: the changes that you make in these areas, should only be "changes that you find to be personally worthwhile and valuable".

The article on the mb website titled "what is plan a and plan b"
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html
kinda sorta hints at what I said, although it approaches it from a different angle.
It terms plan A more as "an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care".
However, in Dr. Bill Harley's books, I believe he also states more along the lines that 'plan A' is an effort to be a better mate to your spouse.


In some ways, I think that their books and material, are 5% giving you the love bank/emotional needs "plan"... and 95% explaining why it is good to follow it, and make changes in yourself. Which is appropriate, because it only makes sense to make changes in yourself, if they are going to be changes that you believe in keeping for the long term. Anything less, means that you would just be putting up a facade, which will crumble in a few months, with no true rebuilding of your marriage.

plan A is about your spouse, as well as yourself. That's why it's hard to keep it up indefinately, if they are treating you badly while you are trying to be nice back to them. plan B is more an "all about you" side of things.

LilSis:

Mom is being tuned out by WH. Reread your earlier posts on this and you will see that YOU get to talk with MIL, but FIL is the one who seems to have the conversations with WH.

They KNOW what they should be saying, and although MIL is more willing to say it, we are a polite society, and it's tough to just say what needs to be said. After all, it is thier son. No matter what. They have said there piece in the past. No need to reinterate it.

Discussing with IL's what YOU would like to say to WH, may be the easier sell. If you could feed your MIL three lines that you wanted her to repeat verbatiam to WH what would they be?

1.
2.
3.

Much easier for MIL to say these things to WH.

And trust that if MIL has the chance to call WH out on foggy speech, she will.


In regards to the check and swapping for time....

I just spent lunch with Mrs LG. Been a tough week for her. We just talked about another place we go for lunch, my son's school play, the beginning's of his first "Chrush" on a girl, this weekend, etc.

What's the point. It was comfortable. She was and I was. That's the type of meeting you really need to arrange with WH. And make no co-relation between it and the check.

The check is a boundary. If you concede that boundary, make sure it is for the right reasons...

Then you build on that meeting, to the next one, each one longer then the other.

See the difference?

Your original thought was a hope to get him to ?Do What? And if it works, great. But if it doesn't? Bad all around.

The other is to build in him the trust that LS has his back when the claws come out.

Because you are already creating in him the conflict with RT and his promises to her.

Your Plan B date is coming. You need to build towards that. SF may happen before, and if it does, than it was the right time for it. NO Matter What we may think around here. At this point, If you do have SF I would see that as a HUGE crack. And it needs to be exploited properly. But if soon thereafter, you go to Plan B, the whiplash of that could go the wrong way...

Just my .02

That was ME...A FORMER WW...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Can't forget that all important "F" once it's earned! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I don't think Sis got fully what I meant by this as she responded by saying that her WH would just say that he was in love with RT if his mother questioned him...But the point was for MIL to question what was so wrong between he and LilSis, RT is NOT a part of that question...The next logical question for MIL to ask him is, "When is it ever RIGHT to have an affair?"...There is NO answer to that but "NEVER!", even to an infidel...I believe that it would stop him in his tracks and make him think, EVEN if he did make some fog bound response verbally, I believe that it would hit it's intended target...

Mrs. W

I am so sorry Mrs. W...i didn't mean to come off superior or insensitive. I actually have a soft spot for WS's...i know quite a few of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

So, i did understand your post.
LS...what do you think?

Nia...I didn't think that you sounded rude or superior AT ALL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is just a sensitivity that you have as a FWS, because you KNOW just how horrible that you were as a WS, and you NEVER want to be considered that again...That's why I winked at you, I wasn't questioning your intent...I knew that the feelings were mine to own...No worries...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Haven't read the recent posts...because I spent a half hour on the phone with WH and then another hour bawling to MIL.

WH called..Hi, how you doing, he asks nicely. Good, how about you?

"CHITTY."

and we went on from there. Apparently he just got something in the mail from FOC...they are going to garnish his wages to provide the support and I need to call my attorney and get FOC off his back because we agreed not to go thru FOC.

He was YELLING. What...I say...I don't know what you are talking about.
WH: it's because of the motion you filed back in December about support.
LS: There was a motion to establish a temporary support order, but your attorney signed off on it, too! And I got something in the mail a week or so ago from FOC saying if I wanted to go thru FOC, to send that in...and it's still sitting in the cabinet. I didn't do ANYTHING.

It just deteriorated from there...at first I was quite reasonable...there's a way you don't have to do this, etc., but he was RELENTLESS. "I have nothing but contempt for FOC and I will NOT have them involved in my business! this is all because YOU FILED A MOTION!!"

At that point, I screamed at him, because he would not let me get a word in: YOU STARTED THIS!! YOU FILED FOR DIVORCE!!

I cannot even possibly begin to recount the whole conversation, but a few choice things...

He accused me of not living up to my vows which led to his A...I asked him point blank if that was grounds to BREAK his and he said no. I said that I just wanted to hear him say that, because he NEVER has...that he broke his vows. He said it, and I started crying, "I have never heard you say that, and all this time you have been making it out like it was MY fault...that I was such a chitty wife that you HAD to go find someone else to be with."

"I RESENT YOU, LILSIS. I RESENT YOU." He said with all the cold hatred and vitriol his voice could muster. "I'm sorry you feel that way." i said thru my tears. He went on to tell me that he resented me for telling "anyone who would listen" about what an awful person he was and what he had done, and now I come around giving him roses.

He again defended RT for calling the police that night. "you were warned" if I did anything stupid that the police would be called. But still, he says, he "aches" over what happened. "And yet you continue to support her decision to do what she did when she wanted nothing other than to DESTROY me." "NO SHE DIDN'T, LILSIS!" His logic on this is SO FOGGY. He aches, but she was totally justified, and I deserve what happened to me.

I broke down and laid my soul bare. I told him EVERYTHING. That my changes...as a result of being cast out with the heroin addicted prostitutes and being ripped to shreds by he and RT...have made me so much stronger, have given me the ability to love so much more freely. That all I am doing is simply putting myself out there...showing him my SELF. He may not want to see it, he may choose not to look, but please do not ask me to not show my SELF.

"I just want you to leave me alone."

I gotta go pick up my kids...but quickly...

After 32 minutes of this...it was brutal. We hung up. I called MIL right away, bawling. She answered...I have her the three minute version, then call waiting beeps in. It's WH. so i hang up with MIL and tell her I'll call her back.

WH: I'm sorry I went off on you.
LS: Did you call your attorney and find out that I didn't do anything to intitiate that?
WH: No, I'm just apologizing.
LS: Thank you. If you find out from your attorney what needs to be done to get this out of the hands of FOC, let me know.

We talked for another 10 minutes...same stuff. I bared my soul again. At the end...there was a long silence. Then he said he had to go.

Gotta run...please hopefully someone post back.

Youch!

More later.