Sis,

He said that HE even knows he is being an [censored] when he gets like this over things that are not under his control. So, he's one of these people who gets mad about things like cars that break down, accidents that happen, TVs that don't work right, etc., and blow off steam at the person who "did" it....but he really doesn't mean anything by it. And, he recognizes the fact that he is like this - because he said as much.

So, if I were to have to deal with his type (and my DAD is the same way), here's what I have done. I tell him the bad news, he blows up. I say nothing, and just look at him and wait. After a pregnant pause, I might say, "Well, do you know how to fix it?" or something along that line, with a friendly smile and calm expression on my face. (My dad can fix ANYTHING.)

The focus really has to be away from the anger or blame, and onto the solution, if you can do that. Just ignore the first part, and move to solving the problem - don't justify, explain, etc. Move quickly to the generation of possible solutions - in the case of the mudflap, begin asking where to buy a new one, does he think he can fix the one you have, should you take it in.....


This approach has worked for me consistently - I had to learn to let it roll off my back, and because I don't react to the nutty and unneccessary steam-blowing, it just goes away. When I first did this, my dad had no idea how to react. He sputtered, and then nervously began figuring out how to fix things. There are times that I do have to explain how something happened, but I only present a VERY basic explanation first (the snow and ice caught it), and once into the solution phase, he is much more able to listen to "how" it happened and less likely to focus on the blame and chastising.

Just my own experience. Your results may vary.



P.S. Warning - secret weapon to follow. Do not try this without practice: If the above method doesn't work, or if you REALLY DID screw something up and need an out - if YOU start out acting more angry about it than you can expect him to be, then he will come at the problem from the point of view of trying to reduce YOUR anger. This puts him in the very interesting position of having to calm YOU down.....and he will be the problem solver. He will come in, with a soothing voice, and be the "fixer man" for you!

I used this when I was younger and messed something up - and my dad fixed it, without getting mad at me. And it worked, and I didn't get in trouble, either. I guess I had a knack for the communication "thing" way back when... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

SB

I am glad I can help. Actually Marsh is a very wise woman as well she actually told me something along the line of what our C said she told me to tell my H when he did things like that to tell him it makes me feel less loving toward him but since your H is not staying with you and you are plan Aing I think this works best for you.

Marsh just so you know things on the homefront are a lot better. We did the LB Questinaire and EN Q'aire and we are making real progress. Also when we went to MC yesterday I mentioned to the Dr that I had stopped talking to him and with his constant critizism that at times I didn't even like being around him and I think I hurt his feelings when I said this.

When we got home he was distant and told me he thought everything was fine because we ML almost everyday and because of that I was sending mixed signals. I told him that at times that was the only way I felt close to him because he always act like whenever I talked to him that I was bothering him so I stopped trying. Our C told him if she is not talking don't assume everything is ok ask questions. I told my H he should not assume just because we ML doesn't mean that everything is ok. If it's not I will tell him and I want him to listen and not just think I am nagging again.

Sorry LS fo bringing my drama to your space but I felt the need to vent. I won't let it happen again.

MB

As I was driving home tonight after picking up the boys (keep in mind it's a 3 minute drive) I seriously considered going to Plan B. I still am considering it.

He was cold and icy when I dropped the boys off...right away starting in about the mud flap. I smiled and said, "everyone makes mistakes." And he rolled his eyes. Tried to make a little conversation and he cut me short. So I left...had to get to my meeting anyway.

When I arrived back at ILs after my meeting to pick up the boys, I let myself in, took off my wet shoes and walked into the living room, where they are all watching TV. I said hello...WH is still sitting there cheerlessly. I asked if I could hold Georgia, so I got her out of her cage and sat down so she could explore the world from my shoulder.

I tried to engage WH in some conversation about the HD (his antenna works...he asked me what i was going to do about the one he got me...I told him I haven't done anything with it...?)

Anyway...WH was not talking. I tried to lighten things up by telling him I had St. Patricks Day weekend worked out...he smiled and said thanks, but that was it.

Suddenly I realized that the dog wasn't there! "Where's P?" I ask.

"Over at B's," he answers. B is the no-good for nothing cheating neighbor that WH and RT went to for "advice" after I took the boys and went to my moms 10 days post d-day. B left his wife and kids to marry the OW. He is ALSO the man who is grabbing RT's a$$, while she grabs HIS in a picture that WH took at a T-BALL GAME just after the A started. B is SCUM.

But apparently, that's where WH takes the dog on the days that WH works. Oh...like today? Oh..no, he wasn't working today. So, he probably was WITH RT in her van this morning. That's why the big stare. SHE WAS LAUGHING AT ME. Just like that night.... just like that night....

As soon as he said that, I stood up and grabbed my coat. "I'd take her. I'd really like to take her. If you want her to have company and not be alone on your 12 hour days, I would be delighted to have her. She's my dog, too."

"No, she's fine." Totally blowing me off. So I stride quickly into the kitchen, slip my shoes back on and get the kids their coats on.

"What's the matter all the sudden?" asks WH.

"I can't believe that I asked to have the dog visit that one night, and you just about freak out, and here it turns out she's over at B's? Of ALL people?"

"You left her here. You dumped her here. She's MY dog."

"Whom I love. I love that dog. I would like to have her if you are trying to unload her."

"I'm not trying to unload her."

"Well, if you just want a place for her to be so she's not unsupervised for 13 hours, bring her home!"

WH just stares at me. I look him dead in the eye and say, "I love you." I step through the back door, start to close it, then open it back and look at him again. "Have a happy Valentine's Day."

And walk away.

I'm telling you. This is the first time I have ever had that inkling that Plan B is imminent. I don't know why. It's not as if anything really changed. It's just something else...something different in the way I feel. Actually, I was in my meeting thinking...I'm not up for drama tonight. Can't I just go home and take a bath? Actually LONGING for Plan B so that I don't have to keep this up.

Anyway...please react. I can go either way. I can suck it up and keep going...or I can go to Plan B. I do need to sleep on it. And I knew that tomorrow and my b-day (damn it!!!) are going to be REALLY REALLY HARD.

I'm strong. I know I am. I'll make it either way. But what do I do with my strength? I need your advice. Do I keep fighting? I can and I will. Do I just make it through this week, and re-evaluate?

Gonna call MIL....

LS I say you know in your heart if you feel like it's time to start plan Bing. No matter what advice you get if you feel like you have had enough then start on your plan b because you don't want to ruin all of your hard work because you are tired of being his dumping ground because he feels guilty for making bad decisions. This is just my .02. What does your heart tell you to do?

***WARNING. LEAN AWAY FROM YOUR MONITOR. VENTING TO COMMENCE IMMEDIATELY**** (remember, here in my safe place because I have no where else to do this)

MIL's not home, obviously.

I know...I totally LB'd. Actually...the way it sounds in my post is much harsher than it really was...at FIRST when he told me the dog was at B's, I took it in stride (externally). For my initial inquiry...I hadn't shown my anger yet. I was low key...but getting tense.

Actually, it was anger and hurt. First the mud flap debacle, then the dog. It's just tapping my love bank.

A large part of it is that I feel so tricked. Like this morning...thinking he must be out taking her for a walk. NO! He's with RT and MY dog is at the scumbag's house.

What an a$$. He had the nerve to stand there and say to my face, "You DUMPED her here!" as if that gives me no rights to MY dog...when he LEFT his wife and children, AND the dog and the cats. I took care of EVERYONE, including the house and yard, for AS LONG AS I COULD. All the while he's contemplating life with RT and living off his parent's good graces....until it became too much for his mother and she had to leave to escape the pain and ugliness he brought into her home. But that was her problem, too, wasn't it WH?

IF YOU CAN ALL TELL ME THAT THERE IS BENEFIT AND INCREASED CHANCE OF RECOVERY BY STAYING IN PLAN A, I'll do it.

Well it sounds like you did REALLY well in any case.

Lis Sis,
listen to your instincts. If your love bank is draining then I'd start preparing for plan B. You stated that you felt different after this interaction with WH. Only you know when it's time for Plan B, but it sounds like that time is approaching.
I would just add, earlier you mentioned not reading too much into positive interactions with WH. I agree with that because the more you read into positive interactions with WH, when he reacts the way he did tonight the more disappointed you are after having seen glimpses of H. Try to remain steady. He is still in an A and his actions are those of a WH not of the H you are fighting for.

mary: I don't know. I guess that's why I need to give it a couple of days. I do not want to do anything impulsively, because of a long, difficult day that preceeds two more difficult days...V-Day and B-day.

That's why I need to talk to MIL. She really helps me understand my heart. I'm crying again. dammit.

I know I can do this. I just don't know what "this" is. I need to take some time to pray and find some guidance. God has always shown me the path before, I only had to ask and allow my heart to be open to his guidance.

This is so stupid. Why did the dog thing just knock me right out of my good Plan A? It's so silly and insignificant, really. I just don't understand why he would take the dog over to B's instead of just asking me. What's the message there?

I'm probably going to just keep posting randomly until I hear back from MIL.

Ok, too much contact with the WS-who-just-got-a-fix for LilSis today...

It's time for another phone call to the Harleys.

I think with the way he blew up on you 2day and then to be betrayed yet again by taking the family dog to someones house who aided and abedded in A when you asked to keep her and he told you no ****** I think anyone one would have been upset. I think you are alot like me with the critizism it really hurts you especially when you are trying so hard to make things right and it feel like the only thing he is focusing on is your mistakes. He is not anymore it just feels like it because you are hurting from what he has already put you through today.

We all know you are a wise woman and you will do the right thing even though it is hard as ******. Taking the easy way out is what he did and I know that if it doesn't work out the way you hope it will you will be able to look back and know you did all you could and that will make you and your kids proud. Keep your head up we are rooting for you. It's your willingness to fight that keeps everyone else going. I said you are inspirational. I meant it. We will be praying for you.

STUPID ME...or maybe not so stupid? I just called WH.

See...this is what happens to me. It's like a scab that I just pick, pick, pick at. This has been my problem forever.

He answered (surprisingly)
LS: I just wanted to apologize for going off on you.
WH: It's understandable.
pause

WH: You should unscrew that mudflap and remove the whole thing before it does any more damage. I think it just needs a Phillips.
LS: Did you look at it?
WH: No, but if it's just hanging by the one screw... (so I'm guessing DS11 told him what it looked like.)
LS: Oh. Okay. Did you put those mud flaps on?
WH: Yeah.
long pause

WH; I'm going to go to bed.
LS: Was there some reason why you didn't ask me about the dog?
WH: She's my responsibility.
LS: Okay, but when you don't feel you are able to live up to that responsbility and need to turn her over to someone, why didn't you call me?
WH: (sigh) I just...
long pause

WH: I need the tax stuff so that I can finish the return. Is there a reason you've been holding back on giving it to me?
LS: I suppose there probably is. I don't understand everything that's going on, and to tell you the truth, it just seems so businesslike.
WH: Well, it has to be done.
LS: Yeah. (pause) Okay. I'll get the stuff together. Maybe we can talk about it this weekend.
long pause

WH: I need to go to bed.
LS: Okay.
WH: Good night. Talk to you later.
LS: (slowly) careful. love you. bye.
pause..I thought maybe he had already hung up.
WH: (very quietly) bye.

It's back to Plan A. My heart just told me to. I'm brushing myself off. I'm going to take a bubble bath.

How can you guys stand to listen to me? Look at me...blubbering, then getting up. Which way...help me...okay whatever...I'm going this way...nevermind....

I tell you, I have a great therapist. He ALWAYS SAYS to let the emotions flow through me. Maybe that's how I get to clarity??

Do you feel badly that you left the dog at the IL's?

Does it reflect badly on Ms. Perfect? Not being able to carry the entire burden by herself?

~ Marsh

maryamb,

I'm happy to hear you and your H are doing well..and that you are still reading and posting here.

~ Marsh

LS:

Not much time...

The DOG

The FOC

The DRIVEWAY.

All point to his responsibility.

And he was riding with RT when you arrived.

Think the rest of that trip was pleasant?

You got the cold WH after he had been beat up by RT.

Then, You point out all his missing responsibilities

DOG

DRIVEWAY

ANTENNA

And he calls back.....

He really wanted to talk.

You were listening. You didn't LB.

HE was SAFE.

You are winning.

Plan B? In the future. Yes.

But not right now. VERY dangerous right now.

my .02

Stay Strong.

You are doing great!

Are you kidding me? I was so worried, and I'm glad you called him.

The little love bust turned out to be minor and it upped the guilt monitor anyway.

I think a little more plan A. And I think you need to start getting real solid on your Plan for Plan B.

See instead of going for a specified date, I think I would be on the lookout for a day when things were especially good/fun/warm between you, and then leave him hanging high and dry to go completely dark. He's hooked on his LilSis fix right now. He was conciliatory when you called him, not annoyed. He's feeling you.

You want him to be really feeling that light, basking in it, when it goes out.

Agree 1000%.

I'm not so sure he was w/ her.

Why would she drive by his house if he was w/ her?

Didn't you say he called you from Sam's club? Was SHE w/ him while he called you?

I doubt it.




He didn't know what was wrong.

But, more important, he CARED enough to ask what was wrong.

And he answered the phone when you called.

He cares.

~ Marsh

STUPID ME...or maybe not so stupid?

Most definitely NOT stupid. Nothing you have done has been stupid...in fact, quite the opposite. I'd saying you are doing a brilliant Plan A. This was a good fix. As others have said, your instincts are good.

And about the morning, I'm still kinda trying to figure out what happened. You're thinking maybe RT was with him in the van, but you said she was on the phone. I'm confused. That sounded to me like she was on the phone WITH HIM...ie he wasn't in the van. When you spoke with him on the phone earlier in the morning, was it his cell or IL's house phone? Just trying to put it all together.

I'm doubting he was with her in the van.

I think she was checking up on him and she busted his chops about it later thus causing his mood this evening.

I know...I was babbling earlier...not making sense. AND I got more intel from MIL. I can't quite figure it out either. Here's the timeline...see if someone can crack the code:

8:15: I call WH on his cell (he doesn't answer IL's landline) and give him the head's up that I'm dropping off the granola. He reluctantly agrees. I tell him "no big deal, I'll just leave it by the door."

8:30: I pull up in front of ILs, WH's truck is in the drive. I see the RT van (let's assume it was her, and yes, she's on the phone) as I'm walking to the back door. Knock, no answer. No dog either...which made me think AT THE TIME that perhaps WH was out walking the dog (not knowing yet that she's being cared for by another WS) He COULD have been in the shower if the following is true....

Maybe 9:30: (Can't be sure of the time. MIL's on Phoenix time and gets confused) WH calls FIL on his way back FROM AN APPOINTMENT with his THERAPIST. MIL doesn't know what FIL/WH talked about, but they talked for quite a while. Probably about the weather...denialville.

1:00: The first of several calls from WH, one to my cell, two to the house, and one to work. He's going to/at Sam's Club; wants to know what I need. And to answer someone's question: NO...he would NOT call me if RT was with him.

2:20: I retrieve my VM and return the call to WH. He's already left Sam's, but is very friendly and tells me he's going to have some granola as soon as we finish on the phone.

3:30: I call with the bad news about the mud flap.

3:45: He calls back and castigates me for not flapping my wings hard enough to FLY the Vibe over the ice chunkage.

5:45: Drop off the boys at ILs so I can go to my meeting...he's still cold and still on me about the stupid mud flap.

8:30: Pick up boys...try to be nice, try to wow him with my arrangements for St. Paddy's day...the dog bomb goes off. LBing commences.

8:50: "have a nice valentine's day." SLAM.

9:45: I call to apologize.

Any ideas? Or is it futile to even try to discern logic from a WS mind?

Well, I guess the worse case senerio is that RT and WH were on the way back to the IL's house (and the dog dumping is an ordinary thing when he doesn't spend the night at the IL's) when you call and tell him you're going to leave the granola. Timing being unfortunate (HA), you are picking up the newspaper and dropping your granola as they drive by.

He gets the 'why are you letting her (you) dictate this and why can't she understand this' speech. She drops him off when you are gone.

He goes to C.

He calls dad.

Dad gives him a little guff.

He calls you from Sam's (because he's feeling guilty about earlier and seeing you drop off the granola, went to C, and then spoke to his dad).

<he's absent for a while and he gets more "you have to make her understand that her life is HER life and why is she calling all the time and making you cookies if you've told her what you told ME you told her" stuff>

He leaves and gets the message about the mudflaps. OMG! Why can't reality go away and leave him alone!

He calls and gives you ****** because she was giving him ******.

Man, this sucks!

You show up. He's all into his own thoughts. He's pissed. You could feel the lack of attention and the dog issue was the proverbial last straw.

<everyone's taker has a hissy fit>

You must appear the attractive choice. So, I think this evening ended well. You were loving and that's a good thing.

How's that? <for pure invention>

None of us know the facts.