I'm going to read back over it to see if I catch what Noodle is saying..

I agree with her point, though.

If he does read it, there's a chance that he will build up his rationalizations again...

At this point, he wants to find ANYTHING that he can to JUSTIFY TO HIMSELF continuation of his AFFAIR...

Written words allow MISINTERPRETATION..

Whereas your ACTIONS are HARDER for him to DISCOUNT...

I AGREE WITH NAB AND NOODLE!

Did you see my post? We tend to post at the same time.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree w/ Mimi.

Don't give him the letter.

Look for ways of getting him to open up.

~ Marsh

Ahhh..

I read back over your letter...PROBLEMS....

YOU ARE BEING JUDGMENTAL ABOUT HIM, SIS...

If this were your PLAN B LETTER..or really in any communication now..talk about YOURSELF and your feeling..otherwise you are being DISRESPECTFUL of him again..I know..OUCH..I'm sorry...



YOU KNOW what he believes about this? Did he tell you?




I don't think he will buy this. Did you know he was INSECURE? I don't think you will really get TO KNOW HIM until RECOVERY. He is NOT the SAME PERSON....



Lots of "I KNOWs", Sis...



Oooooh Sis, this sounds PREACHY....It should be moreso..."I want to learn HOW YOU FEEL..Don't assume that he FEELS the same way that you do about things....

I've got to go...

I'm putting a shout out to LOVINGANYWAY..she set me straignt on this..ONLY SPEAKING MY OWN TRUTH...

Sorry if this is hurtful..

BEEN THERE DONE THAT, THOUGH....

this was my experience w/ my H.
he even requested me to put my feelings in writing...but it was not long before he dismissed it. not enough impact.

the words that worked w/ my H were simple.

"I love you but i don't feel good about myself when i am around you....i don't intend to put myself thru any longer."

my situation was different though...my H did not have plans to leave me....he was just fighting to have his cake and eat it too.
so, that's not exactly what i would reccomend for you....

i thought something sweet, brief but very TO the point might grab your WH's attention w/o feeling like an ultimatum.

does that make any sense?

Good morning...and a happy belated birthday.

One thing I thought might be worth mentioning, and I hate to be a downer here but better you already think it a possibility than slapped in the face with it, is do you think he could be planning a vacation with RT? A lot of people start exercising, eating healthy AND tanning before they go on a much anticipated vacation. Pair that with the fact that he didn't even mention or discuss with you that he was planning a trip to visit the IL's during his weekend...he sort of sprung it on you.

Could he be planning a trip with RT around the same time he visits IL's...visit with IL's and meet RT at vacation destination afterwards or the other way around?

This letter TELLS him who I am, who I've become. My actions will continue to SHOW him who I am, who I've become. The letter provides the context.

You know I respect where you are coming from, mimi. I just don't FEEL that he's a brick wall. I've seen those chinks in the wall, the cracks. Can I slip a note through one of those cracks? I don't know.

I'm still thinking about it.

Something tells me that you didn't see a brick wall, either, if you wrote him heart-felt letters, too. Turns out for you that maybe it was a brick wall.

Those awful things that your DH did when he was a WH...my WH has done none of those. Yes, he's had his moments of cruelty. He's insensitive as can be. He continues to be W. He's selfish, entitled, yada yada. Check, check, check.

But he is not cruel. He WANTS to help me out. He WANTS to be the hero. He has said over and over that he does not want to hurt me any more. You have all seen it. Something in there, just below the surface (who knows how deep) wants to do what is right, wants to be the man that he was.

I have a need to speak to that man. And I know...it should not be about me. So maybe it's not so much that I need it for me, but I need it for him...for that man...to let him know that I am still there.

Another thing...he has said to his mom that he doesn't believe my changes. I have not been able to articulate my sincerity in person. Little bits, but not fully.

At some point, I would like to challenge him...have I EVER, in all the fourteen years he has known me, been conniving or manipulative? EVER? The answer would be no. I have not.

I missed a bunch of posts while writing my last one and cleaning up the kitchen.

I'll go back and give them more time shortly. In the meantime, I'm sitting on the letter. I did feel good to write it, and certainly helped me to get my thoughts in order...maybe that's enough for now.

I hadn't thought about how it might be misinterpreted...or the judgemental parts.

Your comments didn't hurt BTW. I would just like to know if you can identify with the spirit of my letter???

Ruby...not likely. Among other things, he just doesn't have that much time off.

gotta run...WH is coming to go get tires.

How beautiful, LilSis. I heard your heart speak in that letter. I'd like to offer my opinion. I, too, wrote LONG heartfelt letters to WH. Months ago, I wrote those, very early on before I knew he was seeing someone. All I knew was that he wanted out of the marriage and I didn't understand why. I wrote 10 page letters, admiring him, thanking him for all he has done for our family, encouraging him to remember our history, telling him how much I wished I had done things differently. My heart was laid open in those pages.

It does help me to know that I told him what I felt and he would know....I wouldn't have to wonder if I told him enough or in the right way how deeply I loved him and how much I wanted our marriage to work and both of us to be happy....together.

After I found out about his A I figured he had thrown those letters out or destroyed them somehow. He had not. In one of our long heart wrenching wearing emotional talks in December, he too, was bearing his soul. And told me he continued to read those letters and they meant a great deal to him. He reads them sometimes when he is looking for a justification on why has done what he has done. And those letters reinforce that he had no legitimate reason.

And my thought is, when he is not getting all those needs met by OW, he has my letters since he can't talk to me anymore (and doesn't want me to have hope). Reading those over and over can only get him so far.....there is more where that came from and all he has to do is get himself out of the situation he is in. As messed up as my situation is right now, I know that will happen one day.

You know him best...it's your call. It may not mean anything to him now....he may read pieces of it or he may read all of it and get nothing out of it. But he will keep them, and when his heart is ready, he'll read them again and be able to truly feel.

It could make the process take a little longer...but make the recovery that much sweeter.

I see both sides of it....but I do feel it was the best thing that I could have done. Even if we never recover, I feel good for having told him what was in my heart.

Good luck, Sis. You are an inspiration! I "read" you faithfully.

Mimi...her letter was NOt disrespectful in anyway. I think soemtimes people on this site go way too far with the whole DJ thing. If anything, she was giving him too much credit.

I agree with the others about that letter. Don't give it to him.

If he reads it at all - and it is so long he will most likely just skim over it - he will only see the parts that he wants to see and he will see them through the filter of an active WH.

He will read that letter as saying, "No matter how wretched your behaviour has been, I still trust you and I still want you." I know that's not what you meant, but that's what he will read.

So why should he change anything he's doing? That letter will give him what every WS wants:

He will be relieved to know that he's really not hurt you too much (even though he left you) and that you still trust him (even after he abandoned you and your mutual children) and that you still want him and respect him (even though he's screwing another woman.)

Great!

Plan A is one thing, but giving him what HE will see as a hard-copy letter of acceptance is quite a different thing.

Just save a few parts of it to use in a SHORT Plan B letter and do not send it until Plan B time.
Mulan

I disagree.

Mimi did a good job pointing out where Lilsis went wrong.

Assuming stuff and trying to teach/preach to someone is disrespectful.

~ Marsh

i sometimes struggle w/ how sensitive everyone is about DJ's too.....(especially when it comes to a WS.)

sometimes I appreciate a DJ....it opens my eyes in ways that nothing else can.....

and sometimes....it does the complete opposite.
and THAT possiblity is what LS wants to avoid w/ her WH.

As a receipiant of a heartfelt gushy letter from a BS; I will share with you that I *H*A*T*E*D* it. (Can I emphasis that enough?)

It pissed me off.

And provided further justification to me. Have you regularily sent him letters? If not, it might inspire these kinds of reactions:

Oh NOW you appreciate all those things. Well too late.
Oh NOW you want me to destroy the one thing that makes me feel good to take a chance on things maybe/or maybe not working out with us.
You're only doing these things to "win" me back like I'm some big prize. What's wrong with you? Can't you see that I am not a prize? (I was feeling very un-prizeable at that time)
You don't really want ME, you must just afraid to be alone.

* * * *
There comes a point when a WS will start to wonder just how stupid you are to still want them after all the rotten stuff thats happened. There comes a point when they won't respect your devotion -- they will start to question it, as in "where is your self-respect" just how much crap will you put up with? What is wrong with you? Is this all just because you are afraid to be alone? So its not ME you want, its just "someone".

That is why Plan A doesn't last forever, and its GOOD for a WS to see their BS stand up for themselves in Plan B. The WS sees that there is a limit to the crap BS will put up with, and they have some strength and self-respect....

That's what I was trying to say, only Lexxxy said it better.
Mulan

I was thinking this same thing. He may just completely dismiss the plan B letter after receiving other letters.

Cannot stress enough that Plan B has to have it's maximum effect from the start.

The moment I handed FWH my plan B letter I could see the fear that came over his face. It was nothing I had ever done before so he knew it was something big. You take away the "element of surprise" so to say if you give him letters prior to plan B.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Okay...got a few minutes.

WH came over and we caravaned to the tire store. I went in with him and he negotiated with the tire guy. He asked me at one point what I wanted...I just gave him a "who knows?" look and wandered off to look at the batteries.

So apparently WH selected the best tires they had, and asked if they could fix the mud flap while the had if up there if they were able.

So we are driving back to the house. I ask him about the new satilite radio he has in the car, and he shows me the features (I'm betting it was a Christmas gift from RT) When we get home, I hop out of the truck and notice a John Mayer CD in the pocket of the passenger side door. It is RTs...I know because I downloaded it to iTunes for her. UGH. (this gets totally LBing, to don't 2x4 me)

LS: I thought you hated John Mayer.
WH: What are you talking about?
LS: I thought you hated John Mayer, but maybe that was because it had some special significance to you.
WH: I do hate John Mayer.
LS: well, you have the CD in the truck.
WH: I didn't know that. Whose CD is it?
LS: you know very well whose CD it is.
WH stands there, rests hid hands on the shovel and closes his eyes. He sort of starts to say something a couple of times, then stops. I just look at him, watching him struggle...and the angries fade. I say in a soft voice, "It's okay."

He looks at me, and opens his mouth. I say it again, "It's okay" and sort of smile a bit. "Okay, " he says, and we start shoveling. The whole driveway is about 2 inches of snow covered ice, and it has to be practically lifted off in chunks. WH and I spend the next 45 minutes or so doing the whole driveway. He breaks it up and loosens it, and I follow along behind removing it from the driveway.

We chit chat a little, but mostly it's hard work. At one point he says something about "your driveway." Like it's not his anymore.

When we are done, I say, "Let's go get lunch." He looks at me like ha, ha, I know you are joking look. I tell him I haven't eaten. He says he'll run to Wendys and bring it back. "Can't we all just go?" I ask. No, he responds.

So he should be back momentarily...then he's taking the boys. When the tire people call, I guess I am supposed to call WH and he will drive me back to pick it up. We still haven't worked out who is paying for this. WH is still on me to cash that check. I would prefer to give the check back and he can pay for the tires.

Later...

LilSis,

(I wrote this before Lexxy's post, Lexxy said it more directly and better....)

I know you said that you know your H best, true statement, you do vs. MB forum. However, we unfortunately know WS's, as hard is this is to accept, he still very much is one.

No doubt there have been encouraging signs for you lately, I don't at all want to diminish this and I admire your strength. The BS's here that are speaking out to you identify with your need to communicate to WH your feelings. I identify bc I did the same thing! What we are trying to get you to see is that if you have expectations that your H is reading the letter and it will touch him, don't, because your WH is going to read the letter. He will block out your truths in order to justify his truths. He will read and see what he wants to. I've heard this from my WH and read this many times here, the WH thinks that the BS is saying all this to win them back (you are) and that the BS doesn't mean it. It is warped, I know, but the WS doesn't trust the BS. I know you said that you want people here to pt. things out to you, so please try to be open to our heartfelt input.

My FWH's sitch with his last A started bc he felt I didn't believe/support him. When he bought a biz one year into his A in part due to OW encouragement (and "our" money), he wouldn't believe me that I supported him. I wrote letters that said I believed and supported him, he said to himself and me that I was just saying that.

Journalling (is this a word?) is very theraputic. I would suggest you write to put things out there for yourself. If you still feel the need to give this letter to him, realize it is your need you are fulfilling, not to try to convince the WH of anything.

With respect,

nab

NAB, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!

Sis may be coming to the point where she really needs to end PLAN A ...because PLAN A is definitely about GIVING and EXPECTING NOTHING IN RETURN...The EXPECTATION is creating ANGER...

Sad to say,Sis...he will not be TALKED OUT OF THE AFFAIR..."Why can't we just ride with you?"...DUH...I can tell you the answer to that question, Sis...

And even though he is not MEAN OR NASTY TO YOU ...he is definitely APATHETIC AND REJECTING...and that must be so difficult for you when you are wanting and NEEDING soo much more from him...

Nab is restating how I've been telling you about the need to ACCEPT THE REALITY OF THE WS...PLAN A is ALL ABOUT YOU doing what YOU NEED TO DO....SO VERY HARD....

Sis, I know you are in Plan A, but - dear gods.

"It's okay" - ???

Is it really?

Is it really okay?

I think you would have been much better off saying nothing about the CD (even though I would have wanted to take it out and smash it right in front of him) than to bring it up and then softly say "It's okay."

Just because you are in Plan A does NOT mean "tell the WH whatever he wants to hear so he won't be mad".

Unless you really are okay with him having a CD from his wh*re in his car, do not tell him that it is.

Just because you are in Plan A does not mean Radical Honesty goes out the window.


Well - it's not, is it? For once, HE was being honest with YOU.

Mulan (angry for you today)