Only thing I can see wrong with this is that you shoulda had on a cute lil' short silky nightie and NO PANTIES!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Your Plan A is totally kicking butt.

~ Marsh

Lil sis... you rock... WH probably did too at that moment... oops... did I say that out loud? LOL, seriously, you gave the man a lot to think about tonight.

OH! MY GOD! I AM SPEECHLESS!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Suddenly I'm feeling a lot to say.

First, I don't see why Mimi or Marsh are feeling alienated, but I respect their feelings on that. But I've noticed as one of the "sunshine blowing cheerleaders" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> that LS doesn't reply specifically to my posts, she rolls her responses into one post sort of reacting (maybe that's not the right word)--responding to the trends of the thoughts in the current round of posts, there are always a lot of them.

And MEDC, particularly, comes on like a bulldozer in a china shop, (subtle he's not) and he has his own cheerleaders (mulan) and LS usually responds to those type posts that she is holding on to her Plan to Plan A the H, and Plan B the WH mindset (though I don't think she has used that specific terminology, but that's how I see what she's doing. And as sensitive as she is (who can blame her?) I do think some of today's posts would have felt like being knocked around a bit.

About that letter. It was very beautiful. Here's my story. When my husband was deep into his infatuation stage, I read him a poem and a letter. The poem was one of my favorites by WH Auden, called Stop All The Clocks, and it's about a woman whose husband has died and her beautiful expression of grief. And I had written a response paper about how I would feel if I lost my wonderful husband, a paper which turned into a love letter.

When I read it to him I was sitting on the back step and he was grilling on the bar-b-q, and he was so cold, and unfeeling. I'm sitting there crying, tears rolling, and he's just acting annoyed and irritated, with a big old frown on.

This was four months before I found out about the affair.

However, LS' husband ain't quite so wayward as my husband was when I read him that letter, right now. He's not Disregarding LS lately. Not like a WH deep in infatuation. There are hopeful signs that the 'thrill is gone'. My husband said the affair was like crack, it was never as good as the first time, and he kept going back trying to see if he could recreate that first high. My husband is a recovering addict (after more than a decade clean you still have to call it 'recovering'..) and he was familiar with this addictive phenomena, though and maybe that helped him identify it and realize it wasn't what it was "cracked up to be". Pardon!!

LS, when LSWH said he didn't want to hurt you again.."I just don't want you to put yourself in a position where I will hurt you a second time."

Well that's about as honest as a WH gets. He's already seen how hurt she was the first time, and it was scarey. And he's now in a position where whichever way he turns "someone gets hurt".

I wish I understood the investment he has in Rat turd. From the wayward perspective, the key motivator for an affair is usually that the illusion presented by the affair partner is the affair partner treats him as he wanted to be treated by his wife all along. But most of the time they don't get to the point where they leave for the OW, and in your case, he didn't necessarily leave for the the OW, he moved into his parents' house after all. I wonder if your WH thinks he was having an exit affair, that he would have left anyway? I wonder about whether your husband has ever seriously wanted to get married to Rat turd after all the divorces are final. Most people, once divorced, are reluctant to jump right back off the deep end. This is good for LS, because RT clearly has her sights set on something permanent, and only adds to WH's current conflict. At the same time, he seems a bit stubborn, and fearful: "It didn't work out well then, so it probably won't work out now."

Right now he's probably asking himself, what in the he77 he's doing!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So if I were in LS' shoes, I would give him some pretty blank cards or post cards or even make some pretty business card size cards and I would write bits and pieces of the letter on them. On the first one I'd write, "It's not too late for us." or better yet "It's not too late."

One of the most fog-cutting things I said to my husband immediately upon D-day, was "I will always love you." And it was true, not that I will always love you so I will allow us to live in an unhealthy mind-funk relationship, but I will always love you, and if in loving you I have to remove myself from you, then I will do what I must. But in either case I will always love you. That is my truth and it is powerful. It was my beacon and he followed it home.

???


'This man' seems to be a friend of your H's?

A close friend?

Have you called him and thanked him for his concern and his offer to help you?

RS, the friend is another WH or FWH...

Oh man. I have a headache the likes of which I haven't had in years. YEARS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> So anyway, here I am. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

M4L, I understand that this man 'is another WH or FWH'. I just don't think that gives LS the right to be rude (or dismissive) to him him when he pulled up to a 'damsel in distress' scene and offered to help. I know she was in the middle of a meltdown at that time, so it's understandable.

What if Jim was your H, or LG.......or me.

I'm always thinking 'Plan A' when I post to LS, and so I was <maybe mistakenly> thinking that a call to Jim might be looked at favorably by her WH, as he did bring it up in a convo. That's all.

<going to go pound a nail into my head so it'll feel better> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

never thought about LS apolgizing to Jim....hmmm.
maybe she could call WH and ask HIM to relay an apology for her......"please let Jim know i am sorry for coming off rude"....or soemthing like that.
gives you an opportunity to speak w/ H and appear genuinely concerned about hurting another persons feelings.

morning LS!
nice move last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think apology-by-proxy is generally perceived as disingenuous

the apology to Jim should be for Jim's benifit, not a part of Plan A strategy

and, YES, I think you owe him an apology

... make it a good one, one with food benefits!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

morning nia!

As far as apologizing to Jim...I think WH did that for me...again, he rescused me! I think I thanked him last night for explaining to Jim. (besides, Jim IS a bull in a china shop; although a funny guy, he's as blunt and crude as they come, so an apology from me would likely elicit a blank look...sorry if that sounds like a DJ...sometimes I gotta call 'em like I see 'em) So if anything...asking WH if Jim is mad at me, and again thanking him for explaining the situation...that would be a better move for me.

M4L:
For pep, but this isn't right: EGG XAC LEE?? There are usually a string of posts with a general "theme" that I will respond to...not necessarily one post. I DO read them all, and feel badly that I don't respond to everyone's posts individually, but often people say much the same things, so I might pick one that captures the point and quote from it or whatever.

I just have to tell you, this passage here breaks my heart. I so remember tht feeling...to hear you tell it in this way is such a vivid reminder of the confusion, the pain, the bewilderment...sigh. I love Auden, BTW. (WH likes Frost)

Were you making a suggeston about my letter? If so, I missed it...duh.

Tell me more here about your thinking. I had never considered this because of the high pain potential...but do you think that I should try to find someone who would tell me what's going on in A-land? There would be one person...WH's BF...who MIGHT know, who MIGHT tell me. After discovery he was mightly opposed, morally repulsed by the A...and I'm sure this continues as he is quite religious.

BUT his advice to me was to curb kick WH...toot sweet. No question, no hesitation. I suspect that the fact tht I didn't do so caused him to alienate himself from me. I have not heard from he or his wife in months. I know that he and WH are still in touch...the BF told me that he would always be WH's friend, but he definately felt differently about him in light of the A. I do not know if he would know the status of the A or not....but I could ask. Or maybe get my BF to ask him...we all know each other. ???

I SOOO thought of this last night!!! The way he's been acting...much nicer, more willing to come by....RT would be having a HISSY. So here's how my paranoid BS mind works: He's already broken it off with RT, and he's alreay completely written me off as a early adulthood transgression, and he's just decided to enjoy his single life. He's done with me, no turning back. No matter how "nice" I am, he WANTS to be single. Thus, not wanting to put me in a postition to hurt myself...he KNOWS that he's never coming back (as he's said a hundred times)
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This is VERY VERY scary to me. If he's done with RT, why would he not even CONSIDER coming home unless it WAS an exit affair and he's been done for a LOOONG time? Sorry...assumptions...but thoughts do tend to run wild...ideas???

Perfect for the little cards that go with the roses. I'm doing a drop this AM.

[color:"red"] sometimes I gotta call 'em like I see 'em too [/color]

I stand by my opinion that you ought to apologize to Jim yourself ... and with a plate of cookies.

reasons:

1. it is the decent thing to do
2. Jim will like the cookies
3. LilSis will s t r e t c h herself and demonstrate a humble heart to God, Jim, and herself
4. building alliances not building walls is what makes life better

you have opportunities to build alliances here as well

take THEM (he and his wife) cookies with a note "Thank you both for your support and understanding. I could use fellowship at this difficult time."

Ask his WIFE out to lunch, you'll learn more from her than the guy !

I get the impression you live in a town where everyone knows everyone else's business ... This may make Plan B DARK a little trickier... >thinking ahead here<

How much of my ~~~> small-town-no-place-to-hide <~~~ impression is accurate?

THEy are good reasons. can't argue w/ that.
i'll have to remember them for myself.

Perfect Pep.

I think nosing around is tricky, you don't want to tip your hand, especially to RT. Your best girlfriend, is an hour away? I can't remember, but if you all know each other, you could maybe let the WH's best friend's wife know that you don't want to be a burden but you do need a girlfriend who lives close by to talk to. When it comes up, you would explain to her that your vows are sacred and you want to honor them for "as long as it takes". I think you can garner her support, and it would be good for you, too.

I cocooned after D-Day, and it was not good for me.


As far as my sharing of those disjointed thoughts, that's all they are, conjecture, what I'd be thinking in your sitch.

And my story was to just give another example of the wayward mindset. It just doesn't respond in the normal fashion, it's not firing on all cylanders. My husband doesn't even understand it, he just sadly says, "it was an affair", and he's right. There's no making sense of nonsense.

My only advice is to follow your instincts and keeping fighting for what is right and good, and you're going to do that anyway, so there's no need for my advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LS,

do you really think there is a possiblility he has already broken it off w/ RT??

how can you find out?

if that is the case and he could be going thru a time where he is trying to find himself.....for the right reasons....not to play the field.
it's interesting.....you need to find out for sure....it will change your strategy a bit, i think.

Nia ... if this is a small nosy town, like it seems to be

the court of PUBLIC OPINION is very very important!

Sis has some ground to make up for in this area. How many people know she was arrested? ... It only takes ONE to spread the rumor that she's gone "off her rocker" and got tossed in jail... and we all KNOW which witch would start that topic "Ohhhh, it was awful ... *sniff* I was literally afraid for my life ! She's CRAZY and that's why her H is leaving her."

Steps toward alliance-building and friendship-restoration are going to HELP future recovery

Sis can take independant steps in this area ... and I heartedly recommend she make this effort to BE friendly and warm and lovely to as many people in town as possible.

Pep

[color:"blue"] and I heartedly recommend she make this effort to BE friendly and warm and lovely to as many people in town as possible. [/color] ... because if she doesn't ... when she goes to PLAN B ... she's not going to appear sympathetic ... WH and RT will <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I agree w/ you 100% pep.
hope i didn't sound sarcastic before....i was being very sincere.