Good morning nia...again.

I don't feel better this morning. I feel like i was hit by a bus. I half wish I had been hit by a bus. I went to bed about 8:30 and slept until midnight, then I took two tylenol PM but couldn't fall asleep until 3. I woke up about 6:30 and it took me over an hour to get out of bed.

I feel so weak. What has happened to me?

BTW...many of those plan FU words did come out. Nothing was smashed, but we were in my ILs. I hit him, too, and his reaction was "Do you want to go back to jail?"

I said, "Oh, are YOU going to call this time? Or should we call up your ****** ******* ****** girlfriend and have her do it? Because we all know that i deserved that. Did I even make a mark on her? did I leave a bruise? Did i draw blood? Nevermind that what the two of you did to me was the same as if you had taken me down to the hood and stood by and watched while I was gang raped."

Texbook wayward? Actually, it was textbook old LS. So everything I showed him the past two months was wiped away. My actions yesterday were exactly what I did for the first five months.

"This is my weekend with the boys. I was out shoveling, and when i was done I was going to come back in and spend time with DS8. You ruined all that by coming here. This is all about YOU, LS."
"WHAT? You have the NERVE to say that to me? This whole thing has been ALL ABOUT YOU. You decided to break your vows. You decided to leave. You thought you were unhappy in our marriage and so that gave you the right to do whatever YOU wanted and never say anything to me. Don't you DARE sit there and say this is all about ME, you selfish ba$[censored]!"

See? Beauty, eh?

So the garden variety wayward thing. Accept that my H is dead. NOW I guess I understand more what you mean. I don't think I understood wht you were saying. He just is who he is, a WH, an ugly evil lying alien. Why am I so dense? He looks just like my H, sounds like my H, smells like my H. Wanting to find him so badly that I just get drawn into his web...or maybe the web that RT has spun around him.

I feel absolutely defeated. It would be one thing if I had said all that I had to say in a calm, reasoned way. But emotion just took over. I was furious. He said that at one time: "You say you love me and look, you are hitting me."

"I DO love you. But i am ALSO FURIOUS with you. They are two different emotions, and you CAN have both a the same time."

This whole drama took place over about 45 minutes. The first 2/3rds of it, we were upstairs in his parent's bedroom and it was the lovely screaming match. When we came downstairs it was the calm, looking him square in the eye, head high, tears streaming down my face. I was unable to stop crying...just could not stop the tears.

This was the quieter confrontaton...what did I do. How could you put me and the boys through this. Is your "happiness" worth the pain you've inflicted on everyone around you. I know you love those boys...how can you deny them a family. How can you cause such devastation and then just step over the bodies you've left in your wake. One after the other, like dealing cards very slowly from a deck. He just stood there, too, tearing up from time to time, hugging me when the sobs got really racking.

I guess I just need to recount this to get if off my chest. It was really so so so ugly. I just know that it sealed the deal for me. That was it. He saw yesterday and thought, yep, nothing there for me but this crazy woman who hates me. (i know I'm attibuting thoughts here, but I'm just sharing my feelings) She is scary and mean and she can't stop crying and she slobbers on my shirt.

At the end, we were getting ready to go outside. He needed to shovel some ice chunks from behind my car so I wouldn't get stuck backing out. He was standing by the door, and I was on the step just above. The tears were streaming down, he saw and pulled me to him for a hug. Since I was a step up, I could actually put my head on his shoulder instead of the middle of his chest.

Through my sobs I told him again my truth. That I love him, that I HAD to fight for him. That I made a promise. That I am NOT a quitter and it is just the most impossible thing to stop fighting for him. That I just can't "let him go." Please understand, do you understand?

Yes, he said. Then we went out and I left. A huge, blubbering mess.

All I see is pity. He looks at me and sees this woman he USED to know and respect and love, and now I'm just this huge blubbering mess, unable to control her emotions.

Sorry I'm rambling here. I don't quite know what to do this morning.

Morning Sis, I do not think this was as bad as you think...I could tell you my story of Plan FU (just think of white trash on the show COPS) but that would not help you.....At the end of your encounter, he was sympathetic and had tears.

I really hope you consider Plan B, and no matter where you go from here, he really needs to experience some mystery about what you are doing, where you are going and with whom, no lilsis visibility at all. He must start to wonder who will take his place and how that feels. Plan A or B, do not let him in on you staying home alone or going to do some innocent errands, whatever. He needs to think you might be moving on and someone else might be noticing you, too. He needs to feel the kick in gut that you have. If he does not feel it, this is not worth fighting for. No matter how fogged out he may be, he has NOT been a completely cold hard hearted [email]b@stard.[/email] You matter to him.

This man is a softy and rescuer deep down. Every time you have been a damsel, that softy comes forth and your interactions are good. Forget the wooing. He responds to helplessness.....after all he IS a cop. Use what works and dump what hasn't......

BTW, is there any way he could have read any of this? Come into the house when you are at work and see what you have been doing on the computer?

All I see is that the perfect set up for Plan B is coming - after all, your Plan B will have the fact that it has become far too painful for you to remain in contact with him while he is in contact with RT.

The pain will be palpable to him when he no longer has contact with you. If he feels relief at all, it will be for about 1 day, then HIS pain will begin.

After a good rest today - perhaps tomorrow too, you will be back to the strong Plan A - with all of the symbolism and love you have put into this.

EXACTLY!!!!

And you were not supposed to listen to what he SAYS..which is meant to PROVOKE you...in order to JUSTIFY the affair...SAME OLD WS GARDEN VARIETY PATTERN..YUCK...

He turned his CRAP back on you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />



I don't think so...

He wants you to think that and to GIVE UP..so does she...

IT'S YOUR CHOICE...

But your reaction was REASONABLE and UNDERSTANDABLE...

THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU...IT'S ABOUT HIM...

He ought to be thankful that you have NOT KILLED HIM AND HER...

JUST WORDS...HIS AWFUL, STINKY, SMELLY WORDS AIMED AT PROVOKING YOU....



You see..THERE YOU GO...

WH thinking: "She's not giving up..YET?"

To this day, I don't know how I did it, Sis. What we've been standing by and encouraging you to do is just about MIRACULOUS for a human being to be able to withstand. The forces of EVIL are so FIERCE to combat. I know for sure that I would not have been able to do it without a DIRECT INTERVENTION from the LORD. So if you cannot take it anymore it is understandable because you a human who finds it hard to endure all this SUFFERING and ABUSE. You are not perfect. That's the lesson. No amount of talking, begging or pleading will lead your H out of that darkness.

Basically, it takes WORKING THOSE PLANS...

The other day I was afraid for you..thinking that you might believe that YOU have the POWER...if you say just the RIGHT thing..or do just the RIGHT thing...

It will take PLAN B and his SUFFERING...

But I say that you go out of PLAN A VICTORIOUS...NOT JUST YET..but you are ALMOST THERE....



I say you give him TOO MUCH CREDIT...He is a CRACK ADDICT..He doesn't SEE anything...HE JUST WANTS TO MAINTAIN HIS HIGH...

It's not about worrying what he THINKS...It's a BEHAVIORAL PROCESS...

It's YOUR PLAN...YOU BELIEVING IN THIS.. REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES OR WHAT HE SAYS!!!!

Lilsis... I am going to speak to you now with as much caring and consideration as I can...but I am also going to put some practical perspective on this too.

You have done a wonderful Plan A. It needs to end with a wonderful Plan B letter as soon as humanly possible. Telling you to continue in Plan A is not reasonable at this point for several reasons. But let's look at a very practical reason right now. You have broken the terms of your probabtion. YOU COULD VERY WELL END UP IN JAIL! Think your H will not file charges... well, I think a WS is capable of anything. I would have done what you did last night and a whole lot more....but it needs to end. You are losing your grip on your self control and frankly on your spirit at this point. You did what you did yesterday and I think it perfectly transitions you into Plan B. No, it is not the leaving great memories of your send off that some would have you think of here... but frankly, many of those have rooted already or never will. No... it affords you to say to your WH that said "you said you love me and look you are hitting me.."...that you Lilsis wish to take the last stand and not be FORCED to respond to the ugliness he is throwing your way. That you are unable to sit back and watch him rip your family to shreads any longer without response...so you need to walk away until and if he gets his head out of his as$.
Plan A is done...you would need to spend MONTHS correcting what happened last night while still in Plan A. He is going to think "this is what will happen to me if I come home." But if you use it as a launching pad to Plan B... I believe he will realize that he pushed you too far.
This is YOUR situation... he is NOT exactly like this H or that H.... you need to make the tough calls here. From my vantage point it is VERY obvious what must happen now. Frankly I do not know how you held out so long. I am very proud of you.
As always, I will support you in whatever you do. I am praying for you this morning.
Breath... and then act.

Plan B... include the normal stuff and something like this...
Last night showed me that my energy to deal with watching you with another woman and ripping our family to shreads has reached its limit. The changes I made are genuine and will last a lifetime, with or without you. I do not wish to see all the hard work I have done be flushed away because I am being forced to deal with an unbearable situation. WH, you imagine for a minute what your reponse would have been had you been forced to watch me with another man while you were trying to hold on to our marriage. It is beyond devastating. So, my stepping away right now does not mean that I will no longer forgive your actions...it only means that I can no longer, without response, sit back and have a front row seat to the "festivities."

something like that in addition to the normal "love letter" parts of the Plan B letter.

How can I possibly Plan A after yesterday? I can't just pretend it didn't happen. I can't just go back to being "normal" and nice and conversational. Wouldn't it seem to him like more manipulation? Give me a scenario of how I could return to a Plan A after THAT.

And about the garden variety WH. I don't know that I have the ability to look at him and just see the WH. I'm such a sucker.

How do you just turn it off?

And so what you are saying is....H is dead and gone. I just have to tolerate and guard myself against this WH alien...in the hopes...rather with the BELIEF that....a new, better H will emerge??

Is this right??

If so...who IS this new H? and how does he compare to the old H? What connection is there between the two? Does he seem like a stranger, or is he familiar in some ways? (I'm asking from the FBS perspective) Clearly he was worth fighting for....but is/was it creepy...discovering this new person.

I don't know if I'm making sense. Sort of feels like a moot point, anyway, but I'm curious.

What is the point of recommending PLAN B when it will not be EFFECTIVE? It's like saying: I know this will not lead to Recovery of your marriage but DO IT ANYWAY?



This is YOUR OPINION and I RESPECT it but this will not be a PERFECT TRANSITION according to MBers.

IMO, Sis should MOST DEFINITELY counsel again with Steve before going into PLAN B. He is the EXPERT and can inform her of how this can best be done.



NO WAY...A simple APOLOGY from her WILL BLOW HIS MIND....

BEEN THERE DONE THAT, MEDC....

Sis reacted just how her WH expected her to act yesterday...

He happened to win that particular BATTLE..

But I don't see her going out a LOSER...



NO...THIS WILL BE HIS LAST MEMORY OF HER WHILE HE IS IN PLAN B...This would in no way motivate him to end his affair...

You can't. And frankly, I don't think he will let you... he will use your outburst to his advantage and will not believe the changes are real unless you use this as your spring board to a Plan B. Going back to roses and sunshine right now will appear phony Lilsis. No, you were pushed over the edge and now you need to turn this to your advantage... make lemonade out of the lemons so to speak.

Mimi, respectfully I think you are wrong. I am not speaking in absolutes here and I acknowledged that Lilsis may think otherwise... but NONE of us here KNOW all the perfect ways to do this. It is my opinion based on what I read. If yours is different... then we will agree to disagree. IMHO, it is too much to ask her to go back into this. I never said she could apologize...she should in fact... but let me tell you that I know one ABSOLUTE here...her H could have locked up this morning (he most likely won't... but we don't know what he is capable of). And Lilsis could well spend more than hours in jail for breaking her probabtion. This much I KNOW!

And BTW Mimi... she is not "going out a loser." She is the only one here that can hold her head high.

This is not the time to go dark, LilSis. Please listen to those who speak from the perspective of RECOVERED MARRIAGES.

And this is your opinion. You have YOUR experinence with your H Mimi.... but you do not KNOW it won't be effective. You think it won't be. I am recommending what I feel would be effective based on what has happened. So, it's not like say ..." I KNOW this will not lead...." That is disrespectful on your part Mimi. I would never suggest that she do something that wouldn't work.

Yes, because they are the only ones that can offer anything. Hmmm, I wonder if Dr. H has a recovered marriage.

I think you would PLAN A a bit more if you want to recover your marriage. It's your choice, Sis.

You would CALMLY yet ASSERTIVELY SPEAK YOUR TRUTH..."I know that I lost it yesterday and that my actions were inappropirate. I am sorry but you know and I know how difficult this is, etc. I love you and will keep fighting for US. I WILL NOT GIVE UP ON US and it is so frustrating for me not to be able to just tell you to stop this...OR WHATEVER...SPEAK YOUR TRUTH....



I HAD THE BELIEF...A religious thing with me...



That's the only reason that I post to you, Sis...because I am so happy now...I have never been happier...but it's your life..your choice..your awareness of your limits and capabilities and I respect that.

I'm leaving now to pick my H up at the airport. I have been talking to him all morning and he can't wait to see me. I had almost the EXACT SAME confrontations with him. He left me two times or more to return to the OW...I could go on and on with my story but I don't have the time...

I understand, though, if you can't do this. It can rob you of your spirit and it is HARD, HARD, HARD..

But I do feel that if you give up on PLAN A today..RT will be victorious..she will get him on a platter..Sorry but that's my honest opinion....

Yes, it would be better to go back to being normal and conversational after SPEAKING YOUR TRUTH. It would not seem like manipulation if that is PART OF YOUR PLAN. It is not about how IT SEEMS. It's about HOW IT IS..It's about not GIVING UP ON YOUR MARRIAGE and HANDING YOUR HUSBAND OVER TO HER..IT'S ABOUT DOING WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO...

My H is NOT A TOTALLY NEW PERSON..It was like he was under a SPELL and suffered EMOTIONAL DAMAGE and is now RECOVERED from that. He is not EXACTLY THE SAME because of having been INJURED. His BASIC PERSONALITY is the same, though...

BUT WHEN HE WAS A WS..he was LESS HIMSELF than he is NOW..

Make sense???

YES

exactly

You did a great Plan A and showed him (reminded him) of what life can be like with you - but he's got to realize that he HAS pushed you too far and he IS causing you pain far beyond anyone's ability to handle.

That's why this is the perfect time for Plan B.

You had every right to react the way you did and deep down, he knows it. Read Lexxxy's post from yesterday again. He can't love you if he doesn't respect you, and while Plan A is about love Plan F-U is 100% about respect.

You have shown him what you could have together, but he refuses to stop eating cake.

So yank the rug out from under him right now and give him what he thinks he wants. "Be careful what you ask for - you may get it."

YOU have the upper hand here. You really do. Think about it - you have been very very good to him for a long time now, but he still continued to be an [censored]. Finally, HE PUSHED YOU TOO FAR. Now he's got to live with that and he will get the added dousing with the bucket of cold water known as Plan B - with nobody to complain to about it except The Turd.

Think about it.
Mulan

My recommendations from you are coming purely from the MB PERSPECTIVE..not based on MY FEELING about this...

Read up on PLAN A and PLAN B on this website or in SAA if you have a copy.

It is important for the WS to have positive memories of the BS at the beginning of PLAN B.

Don't rely on my counsel, though, Sis...talk to Steve.

There is no way that I think your H will have you arrested.

That was part of his provocation of you yesterday.

HIS AIM WAS TO GET YOU STOP PLAN A...

THIS IS A SERIES OF BATTLES...

YOU WILL HAVE LOST IF YOU LET YOUR WH CONVINCE YOU TO STOP...

Well my goodness look at all the hullabaloo.

OK first things first before I get all involved in recent excitiement and completely forget what I meant to bring up.

[Try to pretend none of this just happened so you can humor me a moment]

About your Hs tolerant, flattered, not quite but almost flirty responses to your propositions...

That is a real issue. There may be elements of feeling uncomfortable telling his wife to go to h*ll when she offers him sex or makes sexually sugestive comments but ya know...I doubt it very much.

I think that this is one of the chinks that RT used 'cause it's sitting there right out i the open and she wasn't rebuffed.

Think how he responded...did it put you off? Did you get the impression he was disgusted or not considering it or that it was entirely unwelcome?

Is that the reaction you want other women to get should you reconcile?

He has a hard time making walls be walls not windows.

OK...'nuff said there now on to the recent festivities.

LS...you DO have an anger management problem. You have physically attacked two people in the last few months...regardless of the stimulus you WERE out of control.

This is not a 2x4 or criticism...it's recognition that the issue is real and the only way around it is to recognize it as a vulnerable area and toss up many roadblocks between you and your reactions.

You have to respect your limits and vulnerabilities...you should not trust yourself to be above temptation [no one is] and when one of those bents or weaknesses [that we all have] makes itself known...it is very foolish to fail to ACT with determiniation and humility.

You have got to recongize the high risk environments and learn to choose to avoid them BEFORE it is too late and you are invested and reactive.

Do you notice any similarity in this advise to what you might tell a WS?

It is intentional.

I think that you should apologise taking full and complete [you grew defensive and tried to make YOUR attack his responsibility...same thing he is doing to you making his affair the result of your failings] responsibility for attacking him.

I especially think that you should draw attention TO the similarities and make a point of how tempting it is to lay blame at others feet and how hard you struggled with yourself to accept that you chose to put yourself at risk and that it was an unwise choice.

I don't want you to draw a direct parallel to his own choices to do just exactly those things...I want you to keep it completely about you...those parallels are SO DIRECT and SO OBVIOUS that they do not need highlighting...he is not stupid...he can connect the dots.

EXCELLENT POINT, NOODLE!!

I relate to Sis' anger problems..THE FIGHT OR FLIGHT MIMI!!

I was afraid of this the other day...

For me, it used to come..still does..ANGER RESULTS FROM MY BELIEF THAT I CAN CONTROL SITUATIONS...

I saw this brewing from the letter..If I say JUST THE RIGHT THING I CAN STOP THE AFFAIR...

The important lesson...and I'm under a time crunch..."I can only control myself..I am powerless over others"

FRUSTRATION LEADS TO AGGRESSION....

Incidentally..this is how you recover your plan A.

We all fail. Show him grace and humility.

He will need to know how to make apology..how to accept his failures and weaknesses in order to recover.

Be an example.

Then work your plan A to completion and wipe the sweat from your brow with plan B.

Isn't is
[color:"red"] mind-blowing [/color] just how POWerful our Taker becomes when our Taker has just about "had it" with too much giving?

I am soooooooooo respectful of my Taker after studying this topic ... and the way Harley presents this concept makes it very understandable, even while in-the-trenches.

Our Taker, a fighter, a scraper, who is not afraid to get down and mean and dirty in order to protect the "home turf" that is the self-good.

We ought to respect our Taker ... because we need our Taker in order to maintain a balanced life.

And, I want to warn anyone who says this about themselves, "I'm a people pleaser" ... because their Taker is still there ... and if too much "pleasing others" has occurred for too long, the formerly quiet Taker will POP out and make damn certain the home of the self is not getting short-changed-by-golly ... usually comes as a surprise to the one who has been enjoying getting "pleased" for a long time.

Thank you Dr Harley for this insight into ourselves.



Pep