GREAT!! THIS SAYS IT ALL VERY SUCCINCTLY!! I AGREE!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

premature time to Plan B

I think it's time for Plan R

REST
RELAX
REFRESH

noodle:
I do have an anger management problem. Wow. Wow wow. What an admission, and what a personal revelation...because I have NEVER been someone who has been at all confrontational. I swear...someone who provides poor service or treats me poorly and I'll be the one apologizing.

This whole situation has led me to a place where I behave in a way that is so completely UNCHARACTERISTIC of me.

That is your point, is it not?

WH's behavior...having an A...is totally uncharacteristic of him, too.

Pushed to our limits, we are all capable of behaving in uncharacteristic and very unattractive ways. We can only hope that the people who love us most will understand that this behavior does not define us...just makes us human. And those people will continue to love us anyway.

Capture it? Because I am totally on board with that, and would be more than willing, eager in fact, to say something of the like to WH.

OR...is that a rationalization/justification...???? I don't want to go there.

I vote for PLAN R, too... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[b] [color:"red"]EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

WORK IT, GIRL..THEN, WIPE YOUR BROW..

I LOVE THAT IMAGE...

Mimi..wearing her red, sparkly low-cut Christmas shirt to pick up her H from the airport (you know, the one he asked me to wear to the Xmas party)..sorry, just had to share...THERE IS HOPE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

because you deny the existance and the importance of your Taker when you self-describe: "I'm a people pleaser" ... as if it were a GOOD thing. It is NOT. People pleasing is a terrible and destructive marriage behavior.

Our Taker demands there be justice in our world

start respecting your Taker and your anger issues will make sense to you

All of us have experienced the unease when a people pleaser in our environment (work or home) comes to us with a "request" which is actually a "demand" ... it's a gut feeling of: "I'm about to get steam-rolled and if I say no, I'm the bad guy here because this person has been so nice."

Pep

Yes, capture it.

It's your to capture and turn around is it not?

OK..here is where I'm going to agree and scootch the direction of the conclusion over a few inches.

Yes, we are all human. Yes we fail miserably and hurt people when we do. Yes this is forgivable and not the end of the world.

Now this is where we don't rationalize or make excuse.

We [the individual] are responsible to guard our gates and recognize our vulnerabilities.

We are responsible to admit with humility that although we might WISH to say "if I take one single more step in this direction it will be too late for me" the truth is...when we are so very far in that we have only one step between us and the precipice it may be too late ALREADY.

We have to acknowledge that there are some things we just can not agree to or pursue...some times we have to protect ourselves from US and our very own collections of vulnerabilities.

In your case you may need to choose NOT to engage in these high tension emotional powerstruggling conversations.

It will be HARD because you will be very tempted.

The belief that there might be something you can do or say that turns the tide will wink at you.

It is very hard to say to yourself..not only can I not trust myself to "go there" I also need to cut a WIDE path around it.

This is a VERY central and relevent issue in recovery.

Yeah...my taker had a hissy all right. Popped up out of nowhere, unexpectedly, and snarled and hissed and bit and clawed like an angry cat.

I don't know how to Plan R even. I feel so low low low. I need to process this stuff and figure it out, but my mind feels really foggy...like it's coated with maple syrup. Gummed up. Slow. Plan R would be good....

But I can't relax, refresh, etc. when I don't know where I'm going next. Until I know my path, my mind just keeps spinning around, looking in all directions, trying to find a place. Certainty brings peace. Uncertainty brings anxiety.

Does that make ANY sense?

Any non-pharmacological suggestions for finding peace in the midst of uncertainty? because I could always fall back on my xanax.

Looks like WH called my cell last night at about 7. No message.

It is time btw to start focussing on your plan B plans.

Ironic as it is this is generally very HELPFULL in going the distance at the end of plan A.

You are so burnt out and battered it is GOOD to concretely see the end and see it with more relief than fear.

No
I do believe this is characteristic of you ... unless you are not human ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

me kicking the Christmas tree to death was not uncharacteristic for me (even tho it was the first time)

it IS characteristic behavior when we are overwhelmed by a sense of JUSTICE DENIED ... and the desire to CONTROL the situation where we feel powerless

when we feel powerless ... we call in the marines ~~~> our Taker

powerlessness to CONTROL this situation must be accepted as reality

when you really accept your own powerlessness to control, you can approach the "unfair" "unjust" by calling in THE marine ~~~> God

God hits way harder than you do ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Actually, I DON'T think it is a good thing. I think it has done me a disservice...not just in my marriage...in my life. I am easily taken advantage of because I am so concerned with how others will view me. I want to elicit a positive reaction in other people...so I give, give, give and don't stand up for myself. I don't speak my mind becuase I might say something stupid.

It's fear, fear, fear of rejection...always. It has ruled my life, and WH's betrayal...the most vicious rejection anyone can face...sent me over the edge of that cliff. Yes, I allowed it...it was/is an ingrained pattern of behavior. If someone treats me poorly, it must be because I deserve it. I must have done something. No one would treat someone poorly for NO REASON. Again...speaking more broadly than just marriage.

Again, changing deeply ingrained patterns of behavior. A failing that I have recognized for years but never changed. I castigate myself for not being more confident, self-assured, but have continued to be that way.

I understand the concept of the Taker...it is so nice and simple. The problem for me is that I have always felt (?) that to indulge my taker was selfish. I didn't deserve to indulge my taker.

Almost like I'm afraid of my Taker. If I open that box up just a crack...the snarling cat will leap out. I need to find productive, safe ways to allow my Taker to express itself without destroying me and everyone around me.

[color:"red"] Certainty brings peace. Uncertainty brings anxiety. [/color]

this is animal (human) behavior 101

but

certainty also brings boredom and lazyness

uncertainty brings excitement and challenge

life is a balance between the two

Pep

I agree with Pep...this is not uncharacteristic...this is LS acting in character with her feelings of fear, helplessness, anger, indignation...etc.

Your H is not acting out of character either really.

Same difference, same failure to respect taker in a relevent and timely manner resulting in crazed behavior follwed by defensive rationalizations.

That is largely why rather than focus on defending your feelings [unnecessary] you show him the way back.

The silver lining in this CLOUD is your own PERSONAL GROWTH..

Regardless of the outcome of your marriage, your suffering today will lead to PERSONAL CHANGE which will be PRICELESS to you in years to come...

The same is true for your WH...once he endures the suffering which is to come for him during PLAN B...

You see?

After all is said and done, regardless of of the outcome of your marriage you will be a BETTER AND DIFFERENT PERSON..once you listen, receive and apply the WISE COUNSEL that you are receiving today...

HUGS to you, SIS..you are ONLY HUMAN...

From Penalty Kill

I agree with MEDC, and have for some time now. Actions speak louder than words for both the WS and the BS. Your own actions are telling you that it's time to scale down on the Plan A. His actions are saying that he is still very much into eating cake.

You can and probably should apologize for hitting him, but IMO you owe him no other apology.

Sorry to disagree with the majority opinion, but that's how I see it.

you are in your [color:"red"] crucible [/color] .... which is what a life crisis is

different elements mixed together and exposed to very high temperatures ... and something NEW will be forged

someone NEW will be forged

it's horrible when you are there
but looking back, such a view opens up !!!

You will have MUCH to admire about yourself when you are through your crucible, I promise

Pep

[color:"red"]Penaltybox [/color] said something here that illustrates my point:



this is Taker language
what is "owed"
implying what is "just"
demanding things be evenly distributed

I am not saying this is "bad" ... not at all ... but LilSis, I hope you can start to recognize "Taker-Talk" in yourself and in others.

This is not incorrect advice ... but is it useful to your PLAN at that moment? See the difference?

[color:"red"] THANKS, PB ! [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Your taker loves you and looks out for you.

It is so so so so very important to treat the taker well.

This is a brain baker but listen...a recent realization I had was that everyone is responsible for their own satisfaction.

You have to rely on YOUR taker rather than someone ELSES giver to safeguard your marriage.

Isn't that a hoot?

Letting your taker out is a frightfull notion indeed.

There will be consequences and your taker will demand that you protest or even refuse to cooperate waaaaaaay before your giver is comfortable dropping the axe.

Yet people who make this jump realize that there is NO situation that exists in their marriage without their consent and cooperation and so the person held accountable is THEM [not coincidentally the only person you control] this REMOVES resentment and disrespect which are the two primary elements of WSdom.

Crazy huh?

I need to find a way to express all of this succintly for myself, so try this one on for size (I'm trying to come up with a "thesis" for lack of a better word, something that relates WH's experience with mine):

When pushed to our limits, we are all capable of reacting out of pure emotion. Those emotional reactions are not characteristic of who we are ordinarily, but they are real, basic human reactions. However, as thoughtful beings, we do have a responsibility to control our reactions so that we don't hurt ourselves or others.

When we do fail to guard ourselves from reacting in hurtful ways, we can only hope that the people who love us most will understand that this behavior does not define us...just makes us human. And those people will continue to love us anyway.

I don't get what you are saying here...sorry. Because don't we always have free will to take the step back from the precipice? Isn't it only too late once you've stepped off into oblivion?

Ha. VERY tempted. Many times I've stepped away from that precipice...but yesterday...yikes. I gave myself over to that temptation. It's almost like I could feel it taking me over. I KNEW I should just get back in that car and drive away. I KNEW it. But instead I opened it up and look out.