Perfect example. Yes, normal functioning people read letters from their loved ones. YOU CANNOT ASSUME THAT A WS DOES THE SAME....As I said before, I wrote letters to MY WH and he shredded them..because that was part of his WH SCRIPT.

MY H actually likes letters and cards and I'm sure he kept his PLAN B LETTER..but while actively in his affair, NO WAY would he have read a letter from me....

I totally agree.

And when LilSis's WH made that remark about feeling like the German soldier who knifed the American GI in the heart while saying, "Shh, shh", I don't think WH meant it as "Oh, I am so sorry I'm hurting you - I don't want to!"

If he meant that, he'd stop his hurtful behaviour. But he hasn't.

I think he meant, "Just die already, would you, and stop making me look like the bad guy!" Sorry to be so harsh, but I hate to see anyone get misled by hope into seeing something that's just not there.

The truth is, Plan A hardly ever works on its own when it comes to a WS pulling their head out. It virtually always takes a cold dark Plan B to do that.

Because of that, I'd say expect the worst behaviour and most hurtful words you can imagine during Plan A (see my paragraph above) and then let Plan B do its job. The medicine really doesn't kick in until Plan B.

Hang in there, Sis. Plan A is only the first part. You haven't gotten to the real stuff yet. And it will get much easier for you when you do.
Mulan

I destroyed the heartfelt letter from my BS, schoolbus.

Do you think you truly understand this mindset?

I would act compassionate, then do the opposite behind my BS's back.

WS have been known to read the spouse's heartfelt
letter to the OP

dey be crazy like dat

hi - i am a lurker and this is my first post. i believe that he is truly sorry that he is hurting her. i also beleive that, because he is ww, he doesnt want to come back. in his mind, i think, he believes his marriage is over and doesnt want it back for whatever reason.

ls is doing a great plan a. i think that plan b should have started before what happened the other day. its too much no matter how strong you are to plan a to the death; builds too much resentment and ls should have started it, imo, before vd,bd, etc. i think you plan a and hope for the best - in my case its working and i shouldnt even have to plan b.

nipped mine in the bud

just my thoughts.

lilsis...hope youre ok

Ok, many of you can help w/dealing with WS withdrawals ... but how about dealing with LilSis update withdrawals!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> *cry*

LilSis, I hope you come back ... I hope this can become a 'safe place' for you again!!

I don't even know what to say now.

I am very, very low and I really don't know where to turn. I have been reading the Bible, trying to find my faith again. Trying to find some spiritual strength. I have been praying for God to give me some direction, some sign about the path I need to take.

But I wanted to check back in here. I owe it to you all, and I'm trying to figure out if this is the place for me.

This whole experience has exposed every doubt I ever had about myself, and in my HEART revealed every single one as TRUE. Intellectually, I know this is crap. I did not deserve this. But my deepest SELF questions this, and has more and more lately. Maybe it's taking the abuse of Plan A longer than I should have. Maybe it was my parent's anniversary, VD, b-day, my dad's birthday (which was yesterday), all packed into one emotionally laden week.

I screwed up. Everytime I have screwed up I have acknowledged it. I have prefaced every "confession" with a "here goes, I blew it" type of qualifier.

I beat myself up more than ANYONE here ever could. What I need most from my friends here is not to remind me how badly I screwed up, but to understand, to help me forgive myself, to figure out how/why it happened, and to recover to the best of my ability.

I know that no one here INTENDS for their words to cut me or to imply judgement of me. But that is how I FEEL them, how I EXPERIENCE them. I KNOW that this is a weakness of mine. I have been very honest about that. You may not understand my mindset, you may not have those same insecurities, you may think it is silly or ridiculous, but it is MY reality. Even if you cannot relate to it, please respect it, because to do otherwise simply brings me down further and I feel even more like a failure. Understand that I am well aware of this weakness, and am struggling to overcome it...but I'm not there yet.

I wept when I read this from Glad, because it captures my feelings exactly: "I can just imagine how utterly weak you feel today, feeling as though you have lost nearly EVERYTHING at this point, incluing your daily support system here."

I DO feel that I have lost everything, now including my faith that I am doing what is right. I DO feel utterly defeated. I DO feel alone. I have exactly two people in the real world whom I can count on for support. I am wondering if I can find SUPPORT here...not ONLY support in knowing what to do, how to "be", but support for who I am NOW and who I hope to become.

I have never asked not to be told the truth. I have never asked for people to keep their opinions to themselves. Maybe I should have asked more specifically for understanding and sensitivity...particularly in those times when I am very vulnerable.

Maybe I should have said, "I'm down, please back off and either take a break or focus on next steps."

Maybe I should have said, "If I have acknowledged that I have made a mistake, please let it go at that and help me figure out a way to rectify the mistake."

Maybe I should have said, "If you disagree with an action that I have taken, please share why you disagree, but do not ask me to defend my actions over and over."

Maybe I should have said, "Please respect my choices, even if you disagree with them."

Maybe I should have said, "Please be cognizant of the fact that I am vulnerable, am struggling with great insecurities, am really just feeling my way through this, and do not have the benefit of hindsight that many of you have."

I don't know where to turn now.

Good Morning (((((SIS)))))

Thanks for checking in this morning...stay in the Word and in prayer, that is your strength.

Psalm 61:1-4
Hear my cry, O God;
listen to my prayer.
From the ends of the earth I call to you,
I call as my heart grows faint;
lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
For you have been my refuge,
a strong tower against the foe.
I long to dwell in your tent forever
and take refuge in the shelter of your wings.

Psalm 143:8-11
Let the morning bring me word of your unfailing love,
for I have put my trust in you.
Show me the way I should go,
for to you I lift up my soul.
Rescue me from my enemies, O Lord,
for I hide myself in you.
Teach me to do your will,
for you are my God;
may your good Spirit
lead me on level ground.
For your name's sake, O Lord,
preserve my life;
in your righteousness,
bring me out of trouble.

Praying for you today, Lilsis
Glad

{{{{{LILSIS}}}}}

First off...breathe. Slow down....breathe.

Lilsis, you are right, you should not have to defend your position or actions over and over. And I guess with the things going on in your head, it is of very little use telling you that you really don't have to...because you FEEL like you need to. You FEEL as though people are dragging you down when the reality is, they really are trying to steer you in the right direction (or what they believe to be the right direction). I am a person that has no problem telling people why I did what I did and then moving forward. YOU have done a great job battling that side of yourself that doubts everything. Sometimes the stress of what we are going through has us lie to ourselves that we have not made improvement. YOU HAVE. It is just getting to be too much right now. YOU are stronger than I could have ever hoped to be... I could never have done a Plan A in the way that you have... I would've crumbled under its emotional weight. As I have told you so many times... I am very proud of you.

So, what do you do now? To me... it is clear. Breathe. You will get back up from this and make a survey of your M landscape. I think you are in the place right now that the Harley's warn against... perhaps your Plan A went a few days too long. If I rememeber you had originally planned on VD as the day for Plan B to start. I honestly feel that you need to strongly get your feet under you... and make the call to go to Plan B. You have this NEED to do everything perfect... and with Plan A that can leave you always NEEDING to do one more thing. Let us help you. That again is why we are here.
So, let's start this by remembering that you are human and in a crisis.... and that you have done wonderfully in the face of evil.
We care for you Lilsis. Exhale.

LilSis, when I read these questions....

"Maybe I should have said, "I'm down, please back off and either take a break or focus on next steps."

Maybe I should have said, "If I have acknowledged that I have made a mistake, please let it go at that and help me figure out a way to rectify the mistake."

Maybe I should have said, "If you disagree with an action that I have taken, please share why you disagree, but do not ask me to defend my actions over and over."

Maybe I should have said, "Please respect my choices, even if you disagree with them."

Maybe I should have said, "Please be cognizant of the fact that I am vulnerable, am struggling with great insecurities, am really just feeling my way through this, and do not have the benefit of hindsight that many of you have."

.....it was like I was reading the questions of a Formerly Wayward.

LilSis, have you noticed that over time some BS's develop an arrogance that is similar to a wayward's arrogance? I have. I developed it at times, too.....and that was my clue that it was time for another call to Steve Harley to get back on track.


"I have never asked not to be told the truth. I have never asked for people to keep their opinions to themselves. Maybe I should have asked more specifically for understanding and sensitivity...particularly in those times when I am very vulnerable."

LilSis, at the risk of sounding like a Pollyanna, learning to deal with what has happened to you and between posters on this thread might be the "homework" that will prepare you for dealing with it with your FWH in early recovery. Not everyone who posts to your thread is well-grounded in MB principles and some are still a little foggy themselves. That's not a DJ, it's just the way this process goes. None of us, WS or BS, comes out of the fog all of a sudden....that's a process too. Remember what has happened lately on this thread, especially how you FEEL, because sometimes a FWS views recovery from the shoes you are in now and views the FBS in the shoes of the posters to your thread. You will have a better chance to recognize it than most BECAUSE of your experience on your thread. As difficult as it is for you now, it can help your recovery later.

After your appt with SH (it's today, isn't it?) you will know what you need to do and you will be in a better position to decide what is the best way for you to do it. Imho, I think that it's a good idea to pray before talking to SH and to pray afterward for guidance. It might be a good idea to pray before reading your thread, so that you get from it what you need without being hindered by the rest.

None of us is perfect, LilSis, and the nice thing is that none of us has to be. We just need humility, which has been defined to me as being willing to be taught. It has also been pointed out to me that I have a responsibility in choosing those teachers wisely. It's just another part of the process, LilSis. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take care <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really don't know what to say to you right now other than (((LilSis))).

Please know that we are all here for you. Supporting you.

Here is my MB dedicated email if you would like to talk.

mbinadaze@yahoo.com

((((Sis))))

I'm again feeling at a loss as to what to say to you...

All that I can do is to be honest with you...

I would think that is what you are wanting...

I can RELATE TO ALL THAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH...



I suffer from CLINICAL DEPRESSION..in remission now..I take daily ADs...did so prior to my H's affair..I certainly EMPATHIZE with your sadness...



Question: Are you saying that you are FEELING that your H's affair is some sort of PUNISHMENT?



I can't REALLY know you well enough from this forum, Sis, for you to REALLY call me a FRIEND...a CYBERFRIEND..but not a REAL, INTIMATE FRIEND..I see my role HERE as being to HELP YOU WITH MB PLANS..not to help you with your insecurities per se.. This is not saying that I don't care about you, Sis..but I can't be that emotionally invested in you..because I CAN'T REALLY KNOW YOU...the look in your eyes...the intuition that I would get by REALLY BEING THERE WITH YOU....So with ME, I think it would be necessary NOT TO TAKE WHAT I SAY AS BEING PERSONAL....

But, as my long-time cyberfriends here know, I used to take things personal. There was a time that PEP didn't post to me for that very reason...so you see, I really understand. But, I soon learned that MY OVERSENSITIVITY WAS SELF-LIMITING to the point that it was keeping me from getting valuable help that I wanted and needed from this forum so I struggled to overcome that. Your choice, Sis, but being as you are now may cause some of us to pull back from you because we DON'T WANT TO BE HURTFUL..but saying somethings that YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN REALLY BE HELPFUL. I'm sorry, Sis. My life is very busy and I can only afford to devote my time here to situations that I personally find to be helpful to me or where I feel that I can be helpful to others.



Great. IMO, this is how you will be able to withstand the RIGORS of the MB FORUM...It is high demand, TASK-ORIENTED here..meant to HELP..not to HURT...not PERSONAL..but aimed at helping folks RECOVER their marriages...



This is not to guilt-trip you, Sis. I HEAR HOW YOU ARE FEELING..BUT, I FEEL that I have been very supportive to you in terms of the time that I have committed to posting to you and I WILL CONTINUE TO BE HERE FOR YOU IF YOU WANT.. but I cannot respond in the way that YOU WANT me to post. I can only post to you honestly, giving you my opinion based on my understanding and experience.

I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT. Here I am posting to you again in the middle of my work day.



What do you mean by this? Please tell me SPECIFICALLY. Pep is right. Can you tell me LITERALLY how this would be communicated? I understand that you are a BS and I am sensitive to that. I don't want you to continue to be a BS so I provide you with direction based on my experience on how to do PLAN A. How is that NOT BEING UNDERSTANDING AND SENSITIVE?



OK. This would work for me. But my viewpoint is and the way I approached this was... WHEN I WAS PARTICULARLY DOWN, EVEN DURING RECOVERY, I DID SOMETHING. PERSONAL ACTION WAS THE ANTIDOTE FOR ME. The more I stayed bogged down in my kick-myself state, the worse I got. Folks may recall me saying: "I'm going get right back up on the horse."




Of course, you are going to make MISTAKES and even ACT CRAZY sometimes. This is a HORRIBLE TRAGEDY that has BEEN DONE TO YOU. YOU ARE DOING THE BEST THAT YOU CAN WITH HORRIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES....Forget it, you are not going to be PERFECT and no one here expects that from you.



You don't have to defend your actions to me. NEVER DO THAT FOR ME. I don't want that. As I said yesterday, THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU AND WHAT YOU ARE WANTING...Take what I say or leave it..



Just like your WH is garden-variety, you are garden-variety BS..no different than I was when I came to the forum. Believe me, most of us FELT EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU. I didn't know how I was going to make it. I had been married over 25 years, had never been with another man, had gotten to the place that I did not want to live, was caring for my aging grandparents on my own.. because their only son, my father, had died suddenly leaving them in my care, both of them died within 6 months of each other a couple of years ago...I KNOW ABOUT HAVING TO DEAL WITH TRAGEDY AND HAVING TO MOVE ON....



I'm saying that you can turn TO ME if you want to..

NEVER SAID YOU COULDN'T...

But in turning to me, don't count on my response being EXACTLY what YOU want to hear..You are welcome to take it or leave it.

As you know, I WILL SPEAK MY OWN TRUTH...


How about that appt. with Steve?

my only little tiny pearl ...

the most effective Plan A is the Plan A where the BS learns to [color:"blue"] self soothe [/color] in the middle of chaos and confussion

once the BS has learned to do that, he/she becomes a Plan A powerhouse where a series of mis-steps don't start a downward spiral

Pep

Pep -- you are so right...

I had mentioned this a while back about doing this exact thing. and this is what works for ME, it truly gets me out of the crazy, self-defeated mode, centers me if only for a brief minute.

Lean back in your chair - close your eyes - and raise your arms to heaven... give it to God, let the pain leave your body for a while...

Then - get back to the situation, refreshed.

Does this make sense to anyone except me ???


Just trying to help Sis when she feels so down.

Plan A is extremely stressful on EVERY Betrayed Spouse.

That's why you cannot let it go on too long.

Plan A virtually never works by itself to turn a Wayward Spouse.

That's why Plan A should never be thought of as an end in itself, but purely as a setup for Plan B.

I think you may have forgotten that.

I hope you will talk to the Harleys and get yourself to Plan B as soon as possible.

Hang in there. You've done the hard part.
Mulan

ACTIVITY is such a GREAT STRATEGY for combatting depression...

I found it so HELPFUL to work out..clean my house..listen to music and dance...

To get up and start moving rather than IMPLODING on MYSELF...

The key is to begin to FEEL POWERFUL and that is done by acting AS IF...the BODY does it first and then the MIND begins to BELIEVE IT...

So what can YOU DO TODAY?

It's OK to CALL YOUR WH and say "Just called to hear your voice"..this is a SIMPLE PLAN A MANEUVER...

Why not get back onto the PLAN A BANDWAGON..why not get back onto the horse?

All is definitely NOT LOST..because YOU HAVE YOURSELF...and you can ALWAYS TRUST IN THE LORD TO TAKE CARE OF YOU..GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU WHEN NO ONE ELSE IS THERE...

I'm sorry for your week, and very sorry if I've contributed to your stress.

I really hope you got some time with Steve today.

Look at it this way, Lilsis -- you have so many components to Plan A. If any of them are causing you stress, focus on a different one.
If interactions with WH are going badly, switch to building alliances. If posting here is going badly, switch to coaching with Steve. Come back to the others when your energy has changed.

That way you are still actively working your plan, but in a way that won't cause you stress.

I don't see the attacks you are feeling; but that doesn't matter. If you feel it, thats what it is.

I don't think you should leave here. I think that you just weren't in the same frame of mind you were 2 weeks ago.
I think if you go back and read these posts 2 weeks from now you'll look at them differently. I think you're just hyper-sensitive right now. Rest.

Mimi,

This is a slight threadjack. Can you read my new thread on recovery titled "Just need to vent."? Any suggestions on how to get through these new details, they are killing me today.

(((((LilSis)))))

I am glad you checked in.
a lot of people were very worried about you....thank you for being so thoughtful.
Please take care of yourself right now.
you don't have to post or explain yourself or anything...just take care of you.
my thougths and prayers are with you.
it's the first day of lent, btw. (I gotta believe that's the beginning of something good.)