Hi, Sis ...

You're getting lots of advice ... I think the best thing you can do to help you sort out your options and get the best possible plan in place is to call Steve. There's nothing he hasn't seen, and he has the experience to really know what works. And lots of times, his advice is different from much of what you might hear here.

You didn't seem too impressed with him last time, so I can understand if you're feeling hesitant. I can just tell you from my experience that I think he's the best possible person to get you through the next few steps. He takes into account your "energy level", and understands how it all works together and what gets through to a wayward.

Everyone here means well. But when it comes right down to it, he's the one who can help you make sense and a solid plan out of everything you've been bombarded with recently. (Bombarded by events and emotions -- I wasn't talking about the posts.)

Hang in there. You're going to be alright.

LilSis,

You've had him not look at you before, so that's not new. You're sensitive now. Hang in there.

Did you call SH?

Let us know what he said.

The 10,000 are here for you.

This rollercoaster just sucks. The highs, the lows, the turns.........just overwhelming at times. You don't have to justify anything to anyone, LilSis. You do your best, and do what you can. You won't have a perfect ANYTHING, so try to steer Ms. P away. She's been peeking out again.

(Whack-a-Mole comes to mind here..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

You will never please everyone. You won't have a perfect Plan A. You won't make every right decision.

In the end, you will be able to say that you did the following:

-Made the changes to yourself that were the right changes, that were needed and necessary, that would make you into the best LilSis
-Worked the best Plan A that you could, given the information you had, the opportunities you had, and the energy you had
-Made the efforts that you felt you could to save your marriage
-Took opportunities to be sure WH knew that he could come home and that you and he could work on the marriage together
-Showed WH the best sides of LS whenever you were able
-Made inroads with WH in the communication between the two of you
-Built connections with ILs to support your attempts to rebuild and reconcile your marriage

There's more to the list, yes, and there are sure more people who will come along and post to make sure it's fleshed out.

But you get the idea. You have accomplished many things, and I want you to see that! To be down on yourself for your "failings" is just plain.......rewriting history. Let's not do that, because it isn't productive. There have been many good things that have come from your Plan A. Just focus, and you could easily add to the list I have started.

Now, you asked for the thread to focus on what to DO NEXT, right?

I am honoring that request. Some ideas follow. Again, these are IDEAS, and in no way do I even pretend to believe they are the gospel according to anyone. Pick and choose, and add your own.....

1. I hope you've talked to SH. I'm very interested in his advice, that will help us all to guide you.

2. I think it would be a good idea to hang on for at least a few more days in Plan A, like you said, to end on an "up" note. Your WH seems to be on his own rollercoaster, and you will probably know when to time it. You have had very good sense about his needs, and your needs, and you should trust your judgment. Of course, I defer to the good Dr. H on this.

3. I'm not sure what type of preparation you might want to do with your boys regarding your Plan B. Just a thought, but the older one is bound to notice the change, and it might help after you give WH the letter to have something prepared to tell the boys about the change, so they will not be confused or worried.

4. Along the same lines, you might want to also plan something to say to your MIL, because she has been so supportive. As your ally, she will need to really understand what the idea is behind Plan B, and how it is designed to guard your heart and your love for your H.

5. I just also wanted to ask, have you heard anything concrete about whether or not the A is continuing? You said you thought something might be breaking down there, and it might help to have some intelligence on that.......do you know anyone who might be able to quietly check on the state of things on the other side? Maybe the friends who were close before but isn't so much anymore - the church lady and/or her H? Just brainstorming on this.

SB

I can't be of much help here, since I never had to walk this path. Here are my feelings -

Ditto what schoolbus said - others who have been involved need to know what you are doing. Certainly the kids and MIL.

It doesn't matter how inconvenient the intermediary is. Go with the person who you feel will be most supportive for you. It's all part of the learning curve for WH. It shouldn't be easy for him. IF this goes through to D, it will not be sunshine and roses.

(((LilSis))). Once again offering prayers for you and for your family. No matter what happens, you can look back and know you did everything you were capable of doing. In the end that's all any of us can do.

Yesterday, I was in such a bad place that I didn't call to make the appointment. Even today has been a challenge...I sort of feel like I am stuck in the mud. I called and left a message after I got home tonight.

WH dropped off the boys and came in only to drop off some pet food he had gotten on sale. Wouldn't look me in the eye, and exited immediately. I asked him to carry out the recycling for me and he made some remark like, "You can't do it?" Previously he would be fine with helping me with something like that. I went out as he was coming back to the car, he stepped in and hand his hand on the door as if he were going to close it. I stepped in to give him a kiss on the cheek and say thank you and he held that arm ramrod straight to block me from getting too close.

He is acting like he hates me again. I am going to let it roll of of me. I can deal with it knowing Plan B is around the corner. This is what I will tell SH...I want him to guide me on how to make the transition, not work any more Plan A stuff.

I am scared.

Okay...assuming I won't get to talk to SH until Friday. Can you get me through tomorrow? I have a meeting at 5:00 so I will be dropping the kids off at ILs prior to, and picking them up at about 7-7:30. Do I do anything in the AM? Make a batch of his favorite cookies (even though he said he's trying to lose weight)? Maybe bring over the fixins for a nice salad when I drop off the boys?

Is being friendly to him likely to be seen as insincere? He was chatty as could be on Sunday...prior to the letter.

I am going to try reaching MIL tonight.

Is it important to know the status of the A? I don't want to call the church lady if I don't have to....but BF would on my behalf.

My intermediary was going to be SIL, but she is so vehemently anti-WH and would criticize me for wanting to recover my marriage. She's deep in the curb-kicking camp. BF is far, far more understanding of my position, having been in it....

See...I feel really scattered...

Thanks for your prayers, everyone.

Nope.

Try looking at it this way:

You've spent several weeks being real nice to him.

He was starting to like it.

Then, apparently for no reason and without provocation, HE said something very nasty to you and HE started a huge fight.

After that, Sis was not around much anymore and very soon went totally dark.

Do you think that even a completely fogged-out WH is going to miss the cause-and-effect here?

Frankly, I thought he handed you the Plan B opportunity on a golden platter and couldn't understand why you were upset about it.

Mulan

Watching all of this afar. No doubt very painful. What I will never understand is how some people think there is something heroic about standing in a ring for 10 rounds getting pulverized....with no defense.

Someone made one of the most ridiculous comments in history how this latest "event" surronding Lilsis was about HER needs and not HER Cheating husbands needs....Gimme a break. Watching this poor woman get $hit on day after day by this "husband" of hers while she is encouraged to give him pairs of her panties and keep saying "love you bye"....is almost too much to take. I know I said I wouldn't comment...I LIED.....

Plan A...Plan B..whatever..for the love of God,, someone...please let this woman have some of her dignity back. The wayward in this case is gonna sink himself....and Lilsis will get him back if she wants him...but this stuff...and the no doubt severe emotional burden that she keeps putting on herself is going to take years to repair.

Plan A all you want....but this is NOT a case that is going to be helped by many more trays of cookies and cards, etc......just my opinion.

Yeah, yeah...I'm the guy not encourgaing marrriages etc.....but anyone here who doesn't see a broken woman ready to end PLAN A is in denial. This is why there is plan B.......anything after this is a charade,,,an act.....manipulation.....

Lets get real now. Please people.

Lilisis...secretly I have a big crush on you...I think you are a way cool chickie who has some real stones, but now....I have stepped off the sidelines and am gonna let you know how I feel about this. I think it is maybe my turn to have an opinion....well...maybe at least. You may want to put me on ignore. A sleeping giant has awoken.

Sourmale, MD (aka John)

Don't make us kick your [censored]! Go back to sleep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

well....welll......well....my old nemesis turned friend is the 1st to greet me back and lay down the law. Well, we will just have to see about that,

Signed'

John A Sourdude, MD

I said that affectionately, Dr. Sour. You know we love ya! Glad to see ya back in these parts. Hope things are going well for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lil Sis,

Perhaps something in your "body language" tonight (apprehension?) from you, gave WH the feeling that something was not "the same" to his funked out mind? THE APPEHENSION!( I can't go back!)
He is looking for hope! Be the way home!
He wants (nae, desires to come home) to you and you know how to get there... show him,lil sis, like only you can!

Yes, he can come home, and yes, you can show him the way!!!
SHINE YOUR BEACON!!! YOU ARE THE LIGHT!!

BE "Lil Sis'!

I pray for you everyday day, and from Los Angeles, CA it is few and far between!!

Ash Wednesday! May the Lord Bless you, and keep you, Amen!

PGA

It sounds to me like he's terribly ashamed. That's why he can't look you in the eye. He should be ashamed. I'm with the Plan B camp. Write a beautiful letter telling him how to come home and remove yourself from WH's trainwreck and take care of yourself.

Until you talk to SH, I'd be kind, warm and loving. But, nothing much more than that.

(((((((((LilSis))))))))))

LilSis,

I'm so sorry that you're feeling so disheartened, but I don't think your WH is a lost cause!

He must be feeling tremendous guilt right now, and the easiest way out for his wayward mind is to blame you right now.

Since he's made a couple of remarks to you about "What about come April?", and it hurt you so badly, I think you should have an answer all ready for him if he says it again.

How about this? "Come April? Well, c1ome April, I hope to be waking up beside the man I love, looking over at him as he awakens with a smile on his face and knowing that he loves me, too. Come April, I look forward to spending time with our family...working, playing, and laughing together...in a home filled with love. Come April, all that is still possible." Then, do your "careful, love you, bye" thing and leave!

Don't hang around and let him have a chance to stab you again!

Don't lose your hope...just lose the expectations for now.

Also, extend your Plan A to the community, as someone else suggested.

Take a plate of cookies to the guy (Jim?) who stopped by when you were stuck in your driveway. Drop by the station with some disposable bowls and spoons, some crackers, and a big pot of your homemade soup.

This is the kind of thing that will get his coworkers/friends to telling him, "Man...you have got the sweetest lil' wife! You are nuts!"

And, you know what? If one of his single coworkers says, "Hey, since you're gettin' a divorce and all...would it be all right with you if I ask your wife out?", that could work to the GOOD of your marriage! Cuz, I have a hunch that it would NOT be all right with him!

No, I don't think you should take up any offer to date if somebody asked you, but it wouldn't hurt a thing for your WH to know that if he is not in the picture, SOMEBODY ELSE just might be.

Yes, jump back into Plan A, because you want your husband to have GOOD memories of your last interactions with him before you go into a deep, dark Plan B.

I also think that a slight bit of the "180 Plan" might be good, too.

When he has the kids on a weekend night, go out somewhere with your best friend or even just to the mall, and don't tell him where you're going or what you're doing. Let him wonder.

I allowed my H to assume that I was going out to nightclubs and bars when he was soooo in luv with Cafe Woman...and he couldn't STAND the idea that other men might be approaching me. He even told me that he didn't like it, but qualified it by saying, "You don't know what kind of men are out there..." My response? Well, since he had previously cheated with a bar floozie, I simply responded, "Men who are just out to score with anybody who's willing? Don't worry, honey...I've learn to spot them from a mile off!"

Now, I'm not suggesting that you do this. I did this before I found MB, and it was sorta dishonest of me. I probably wouldn't do this again...but it was kinda fun to see his head spinnin'!

I just think that your WH may not have considered the possibility that you would EVER be with anyone else. He may even think that you'll ALWAYS be there for when he gets ready to come home.

He knows that you are willing to be a wonderful wife to him and that you love him. He KNOWS this, Sis!

So, maybe this is a bad idea, but I think your H needs to have a little doubt as to your ALWAYS being there for HIM.

I dunno...some people have let their WH spouses know that, after divorce, they will NOT be friends...they will NOT communicate in any manner except regarding the kids. Maybe your H needs to believe that he will totally be cut off from you (other than for the kids), if he goes through with this divorce.

So, maybe the thing I wrote about "Come April..." is NOT something you should respond with; maybe a better response would be "Come April...if your previously announced plans go through...you will never be allowed access to me again other than arrangements for our children. I will be moving on and making a really good life for myself, our children, and whoever is lucky enough to win my love."

Gee, Sis! It is really HARD to advise you on how to respond to that divorce garbage (although the stock answer of "I do marriage, not divorce" is a good one!), but I agree that you do need to finish out your Plan A before you do Plan B.

good morning, LS.
you were in my thoughts and prayers at church last night.

you called SH...that's good.....i would trust his advice.
"till then...I vote no cookies....no active plan Aing.

I am not opposed to asking him WHY he can't look you in the eye all of a sudden? was there something in the letter?

most of the plan A advice you get has to w/ winning your WH back at all costs....that becomes the objective....to listen to some people it becomes a game to win.
BUT.....you yourself have even questioned if the NEW you really wants the NEW him.
concentrate om yourself 'till you hear from SH....not trying to score points w/ WH.
AT some point you have to step back and realize....the point is not to win back WH but to be a happy and healthy person yourself.
take care of you.

I don't think it's necessary to do any more plan A-ing. He's not a dog....he's not "Mr. short-term memory." He has plenty of good Plan A memories to draw from. The opportunity for him to experience the cause-and-effect of his LB-ing is also good "food for thought" for him.

I hope Steve advises you to go straight to Plan B. I think that the Plan B letter should be short & to the point. You've already said it all--he knows you're ready to make it work if decides to come back.

Yes. I'd be interested in what Steve thinks resulted in this change. I know you probably had this planned... but make sure to tell Steve about your letter and what you stated in it.



I understand that this is how you are feeling..but I think there's no reason for you to be particularly concerned.

Of course, continue to be friendly towards him but I wouldn't do any particular PLAN A activities until after speaking with Steve.



Again, speaking from MY EXPERIENCE with Steve. He told me to ALWAYS ASSUME THAT THE AFFAIR IS CONTINUING UNLESS THERE IS EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. I doubt very seriously that the A is not continuing as strongly as ever. Sorry. It will be difficult for him to break it off with her...after all this time...and especially given his current demeanor all indications are that she has come on heavy with some devious mindgame. Who knows? He may have shared the letter with her as Pep indicated.

Continue to PRAY...ALWAYS HELPS...

Be friendly.

Avoid extended interactions with him.

PLEASE LET US HEAR ABOUT YOUR SESSION WITH STEVE.

I plan to support you in doing EXACTLY AS HE RECOMMENDS.

rereading your post.....
you asked if being friendly to him is likely to be seen as insincere.
i don't think so....i think you should smile at him and try to be pleasant....talk to him....be sincere.

BUT, not over-friendly......not over the top happy...if he is being rude and is acting like he hates you again...that might make you look crazy.

you might have to grin and bare his meaness.....but you don't have to pretend like something he says (like the comment about the recycling) is not hurtful to you.
don't lie and put on a happy face when he is rude and hurtful....i think that is incincere.
Don't dwell on your hurt or his meaness either.

for instance, when he made that comment....take a deep breath and say something like...."yes, i could do it myself.....but,it is heavy and i would appreciate it."
in a sincere even voice.

when in doubt...i always go w/ sincerity...it's honest and I always feel ok w/ my decision afterwards....and that's important to me.

Ditto

I've been trying to stress this Plan A aspect ... building alliances

Pep

this is the part of Plan A that i think LS could use your expert expalnation and advise on.
I think the Plan A part that concentrates on fulfilling the WS's ENs and giving, giving, giving is what wore LS down.
It's so easy to get caught up in trying to win the WS back....it's gets very confusing.

Sis,

I agree with the ideas that he may sense your changes, and also feels guilty.

I'm glad you've called SH.

The reason I asked if you had any solid intel on the A was because of the speculation about it weakening, his spending less time with her, etc. I thought that if it was weakening and if you had some valid information (not just speculation), that you might want to mention that to SH, it might make a difference in his assessment of what you could/should be doing. That's why I made the suggestion.

It might not make any difference, I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no.

Did you get a chance to talk to MIL? She always seems to be able to help you back up.

I was searching today in a book of scriptures for guidance for you. Everything I looked at said that it was in God's hands, for you to trust HIM. To follow where He leads you, and to trust that He is leading you where you need to be.

I kept trying to find a different answer for you. I looked in the index, and when I thought I found something, I turned to the page, and the scripture said the same thing more or less.

Trust in God, it is in His hands. Follow where He leads.

For a moment, I thought the whole book said that, but when I looked, it didn't. Just everything I looked up did. Everything I prayed about led there.

My advice in tough times has always been:

Come from a point of love.

You will never regret any decision made from a point of love, and you will always know your heart was pure of spirit when you decided.

Let us know what SH says. We can all help better then.

SB

I'm 100% with SourDude on this, you are late for your Plan B Sis. Plan A has exhausted itself, and you with it.

You have zero left in your lovebank for your husband and its headed to negative real fast. You more than deserve this Plan B, it will be a welcome relief for you.

You should be so proud of yourself for being one of the best Plan A'ers MB has seen, a true inspiration. I have no doubt you'll be equally successful in your Plan B.

With much admiration and good wishes,
Jo