????
don't think I understand your comment about CONTRADICTION.
I do think that YOU MISUNDERSTAND ME, mimi.

I have plenty of confidence in LS.

I hope she calls Steve and I hope she stops taking the advice of people who tell her that their sitaution was EXACTLY like hers and she should do this or that based on what worked for them.... and i don't mean just you.

My H got so into lying when he was a WS....he would lie about stupid little stuff unrelated to the A for no other reason than the power he felt...he was on an adrenalyn high while at the peak of his A. He seemed to practice the lying in all aspects of his life.

He fully acknowledges being an awful person during that time...it is hard to believe how low he sunk. A's do that to people.

I am not sure how I am coming across...but, i do not disagree w/ mimi and others about thinking of WH as an alien being who WILL lie to you.......I just completely understand that you are still getting to that point....and i think the advice and discussions on this board can SOMETIMES cloud perspective.

This is SOO UNLIKE ME..I'm usually like you, Nia... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

But I'm way out here on the side of encouraging Sis to BE TOUGH..not letting anyone or anything deter her from being TOUGH...

I'm not buying in to her FRAGILITY...

Or that there is a PROBLEM with CONFLICT or CONTRADICTION on this website....

THE PROBLEM IS THAT SHE HAS A WH WHO IS AN ALIEN, IMO....

And, IMO, he is GARDEN-VARIETY and MUCH LIKE MY WH and any other WH...

IMO, we do Sis a disservice in enabling her sense of herself as being FRAGILE and unable to handle the CONFLICT and CONTRADICTIONS on this FORUM...

To me, that's a COPOUT...

Her PLAN A was being effective..Her WH is asking why there is a CHANGE in her...I think that the A is WINNING now by her backing down...

THE NEW MIMI..calling it as I see it...

And this may be a CONTRADICTION to what others think..

That's all right with me.....

I don't think you can GIVE someone confidence. You have to be motivated to develop this on your own. We can ONLY GIVE ADVICE BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE. What else can we do?

you are very passionate,mimi...and i really like that about you.

i don't buy into LS fragility either....maybe for a moment or two....and i don't see her accepting it,dwelling it or becoming passive.

probably just needs a breather..needs to get centered.
yoga helped me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No, that is how I interpreted it. I was just adding one of my "reasons" for having difficulty getting to that point. i.e.; he's already being hateful and hurtful, why feel the need to lie as well?

Not asking the question...just giving the example...it is stupid...none of it makes sense...which is the point, is it not?

I know LS...I felt the same way...it just didn't make sense TO ME.
I actually had to talk to some WW's(friends and relatives) and peopel w/ addictive tendencies to actually GET it.

btw...good morning! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's NOT LOGICAL...Read Trix' post..she also shared my WH experience...AS BAD AS BAD CAN ME..EVIL..DESPICABLE..A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING..Do you know anything about CRACK ADDICTS...how lowdown and dirty they get..

LS,

In order to become a cheater, you have to begin by telling yourself lies. You have to emotionally "pretend" you're NOT married.

And then in order to continue the A you have to continue to lie...mostly to yourself, but those lies WILL spill over to others. They have too.

I can't tell you how many lies I've had to sort through and correct in order to recover my mind.

~ Marsh

i agree.
maybe i should have said motivated her to find her confidence....find HERSELF.

all we can do is give advice based on our own experience and urge her to find the balance.

Didn't you FEEL CRAZY? I think my H thought that he was LOSING HIS MIND...difficult to distinguish FANTASY from REALITY...

In fact, he did REWRITE HISTORY..there's lies that he started to BELIEVE..that I have even recently had to correct him on..

He's looked at me and said: "REALLY?" about certain aspects about our life that he tried to REWRITE....

I remember doubting my own sanity.
my H now hates what he did to me...and to himself.

I really do think it is helpful to read up on addictive behavior......It was very hard for me to accept.
Once I did...i really ddin't know IF i wanted to stay married to someone who could lie like that....who had THAT in them. (I still struggle w/ this thought some days)

that may have played into WHY i believed he wouldn't lie to me.
when i accepted he WAS LYING, I kew.....HE had a problem...not just me. and I didn't like that.

Yes, Mimi, I felt as though I was losing my mind.

Adultery is total crazy making.

What LS doesn't understand is that waywards don't just lie to their spouses...they lie CONSTANTLY to themselves.

That's what adultery is built on.

As long as the A continues so do the lies.

~ Marsh

Just like a RECOVERED ADDICT, my H is almost BRUTALLY HONEST with me now, though...well not, BRUTALLY..but tells me stuff that I NEED to hear but don't necessarily want to HEAR at the time..

You have to watch what you pray for... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes, nia!

I am not fragile, but I am needing to lick my wounds. This has taken a lot out of me and I need to find my strenghth, my grit, my determination. I can ONLY do that by finding my center, re-connecting with myself and God spiritually.

I don't see myself as giving up. I do need to step back. Take a break. Get some perspective on my SELF instead of running from one thing to the next.

Sometimes the advice here will NOT work in my sitch. Like the police thing. And as nia said, the panty thing turned into a fiasco.

I am advised to “not go by my gut”...but following advice blindly does not work, either. I feel like that is what I was doing for a while. Not reflecting, not processing. Feeling pressure; a sense of urgency; expectations that I would follow all the advice given or respond by a prescribed set of standards.

I know mimi and others have also said frequently, "take what you want and leave what you don't" but again, I have not experienced that as being accepted. None of this is intentional…I’m sure, but again…it is simply the way I experienced it. My honest assessment.

There’s a certain amount of dissonance created by the conflict between my own intuition and advice I’m given. I did not allow myself the time to process that. I need to do that now.

Happy Birthday, Marsh!


editing here...
I don't mean that somehow YOU forgot, marsh...i meant "WE" as in the BS.

Somehow you forget that they will CONTINUE to lie once the BIG LIE is uncovered. you forget that the lying has become a way of life to them.....comes very naturally....they do not see it as wrong.
it's almost criminal.

Yes, my H talked to SH when he was VERY W. Totally entrenched in the A. Steve talked me through exactly how to get him to talk to him. He only talked to him once or twice while he was W, and then wouldn't anymore. But it was very interesting, because he agreed with everything that SH said, found him to be very logical and make sense. And he has said that as much as he didn't want to hear it, everything Steve said to him echoed in his mind all the time after that. That he would think and think about it.

-AmI.

Sis and Crew:

Hope you'll do like me and have some FUN today....

But, I also pray that WHATEVER YOU DO,Sis..that you soon get back into doing PLAN A...

and that you'll make a CALL to make an appt. with STEVE HARLEY...

Now, having said this..FUN..PLAN A..STEVE HARLEY...I'm wringing my hands of this for TODAY...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

This lying stuff is good, esp. Marsh's perspective (happy b-day, BTW!!).

This is one of those things I will begin to really internalize. But it will be hard...not just a switch flipping. And I think it will effect my feelings about WH...not something I want to attribute to WH. There's enough bad stuff already.

For ME, I need to hang on to SOME good things still in WH/or the H inside. Adding another "weight" to the negative side of the balance...not something I WANT to do.

But it has to be done.