Actually - you should feel a little sad for WH

You have ALL of us -

He's just got RT

Not a fair fight !!!

From "Hit Him Where It Hurts" -

"The negotiations phase of divorce or separation usually involves a succession of meetings between the two parties and their attorneys, which are commonly called settlement conferences. It typically also involves meetings between the 2 attorneys and the judge, with or without the participation of the 2 parties. These conferences may be scheduled anytime during the divorce proceedings until the final disposition is handed down."

The book goes on to say that you should not go to the conference without FIRST discussing everything with your attorney.

Something else that may help a bit -

Remember, all WS and OP think that Divorce is the road to happiness.

"Once We Get The Divorce", THEN all our problems will be solved. THEN everyone can finally be happy. The WS can be happy, the OP can be happy, the BS can be happy and the kids can be happy.

You know better, of course, but your WH does not. He honestly thinks that the way for everyone to Be Happy is to just get that Divorce.

This explains why you are dreading it and he is not.

This also explains why it's not unusual for divorced couples to remarry each other - because the WS gets the crushing lesson that no, of course Divorce does not make people happy.

Duh.

And one other point on Plan B - I still maintain that it's not so much as just letting go of the WS as it is about the BS taking back control of their *own* life.

You can think of Plan B as the mother of all boundaries, as in "I will not be part of a triangle. I will not be in your life as long as you include OP in it."

Plan B stands for Boundary, as far as I'm concerned.

Hang in there. Many folks here have recovered their marriages from worse situations, *but they did not recover them until after they went to Plan B.*

Please don't forget that! You haven't even used your best weapon yet.
Mulan

Lis Sis-- this is standard for ANY lawsuit-- the Judge WANTS this case to SETTLE. Call your attorney and tell him that in no way do you want to SETTLE this right now. All Judges want cases to settle-- to clear their docket.

As for the FOC paperwork-- that's all it is-- paperwork. Let your attorney know (he probably already does) but ask him to slow down that process too.

This is not a "KICK"... this is the way the system works. It's important that your attorney deals with these things or the computer at the court house will assume... and we don't want that.

It's not personal. {{{Sis}}}

edited to correct first impulse... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

just wanted to say something about counseling with jennifer or steve.

I'm NOT trying to convince lilsis that she should do this because she's already made her decision

but since this discussion got started a few pages ago, i wanted to add my thoughts in case anyone who reads this thread IS considering if the sessions are worth the $

my H and i were seeing a counselor after i discovered the A, He met with us together and separately. He said that he was trying to help my H deal with his issues of guilt and shame because of what he did, and to help him discover why he made the choice to have the A.

his counseling with me was directed at helping me to work through my anger over the A and to help me during my struggle to decided if i still wanted to be married to my H now that everything that has caused me to fall in love with him in the first place..... was gone.

he advised me to talk to my H about my feelings instead of letting them build up causing me to later have an angry outburst. he told my H that anything i was venting for longer than 10 minutes, he should blow a whistle to tell me that my time was up. he even gave him the whistle.

(you can bet that the next time i was venting, my h KNEW if he blew that whistle, he'd be blowing it out of his a$$ for the rest of his life)

we also talked about the death of our parents and how it had impacted our lives. We talked about our very different childhood’s. i talked about my awful family life and we talked about our desire to move back home near our family

in my individual sessions, he assured me that HE REALLY BELIEVED my H was recommitted to me and to our marriage. He said that he had worked with many people who come to counseling and "talk a good talk" but that he knows that in reality, the A is continuing. But there was nothing to make him think this.

We counseled with him once a week for 3 months

after my H left, i went back to him. He said that he was so very surprised because he has been so genuine in his desire to do what ever he had to do to make this work because he could never imagine his life without me and that he didn't ever want to hurt me like that again.

I told him that I wanted to restore our marriage and that I was willing to work hard to try to make it happen. I asked him if he had any ideas that would help. He didn’t. NOT ONE IDEA OF HOW TO TRY TO SAVE OUR MARRIAGE.

My sessions with Jennifer aren’t like that at all. She is an expert on relationships….how to make them work….discovering the real reasons why they aren’t working and she gives a very specific plan that includes the most effective ways to save your marriage.

I usually send her an e-mail with questions or concerns and ask how they might relate to my situation. Since she knows I’m home most evenings, we don’t schedule a time, she just calls when she has a free time slot. She already has reviewed the background info and the notes from our previous sessions, and she usually has a plan of attack all written out, she will say “get a pen and write exactly what I say. This is the response that we’re going to send to your H. or this is the e-mail that I want you to send to show him that you are willing to “put out the hand” in a gesture of support if he is only willing to accept it.

For example: In my e-mail, I might have sent a summary of a phone call from my H. when jennifer calls me back she knows what I need help with and she has already spent time devising a plan for me. (perhaps that’s part of the cost. The information gathering that’s done before the session so that the session can focus on what she needs to tell me in order to help my situation, instead of my telling her what already happened.)

(I’m not sure if anyone else sends e-mails in advance. I’ve heard Bill Harly mention on his show that he prefers this,)

She helps me to include my feelings and she uses the MB terms that are best for my situation. SHE knows the things to say because she knows the emotional needs that I was not meeting. She completely understands why marriages fail and how to rebuild them and make them happier than ever before.

She wrote almost my entire plan B letter.

It is incredible to have emotional support from someone who is so passionate about saving my marriage.

I do agree that the cost is high. It’s $185 per hour. I don’t think they are concerned about that hour time limit. They want to end the call with you feeling like you have a plan.

I’m living off one income…..and that’s A LOT of money.

I went into this thinking that I would call her once and get her thoughts and advice and then I wold better be able to apply to MB plans and philosophy to my situatuin.
i just wanted to say something about counseling with jennifer or steve.

I'm NOT trying to convince lissis that she should do this because she's already made her decision

However, I have found the support that I NEED right now to keep hoping to keep believing that the A will end. Unlike most people she, doesn’t question my decision to fight for my marriage….instead it’s her belief that this is a great choice. She helps me to quit assuming that my H is happy with his new life and she has time proven reasons to support her belief that there is “NO WAY that he’s getting his needs met and is happy because ………”

I was lucky enough to sell an old truck. I put the check for it in my account and I’ve not given it another thought. That money has been paying for the times that need her support.

If I were dealing with issues others than my marriage or relationships, jennifer wouldn’t be the right counselor….but for this situation, she’s the perfect choice for me


i guess it comes down to this for me:

the A is like a cancer threatening the life of my marriage

my general practitioner can help with some of the side effects

but ii'm also seeing a specialists who has knowledge and experience in exactly what i need in the hopes of recovering

Lil Sis - I see you caving in to your pain and totally off your plan.

Please call Steve - my guess is that he's going to strategize with you a way to get your husband on the phone with him - your husband can see the degree of pain you're in and my guess is that Steve would suggest that he talk with your husband on the premise of helping you through this painful situation - not up front about saving the marriage.

Can you at least do that? I know last time you stretched out of your comfort zone to cover the fee for the Harleys and I think getting out of your comfort zone again is preferable to the degree of pain you're in.

Please consider it!

Maybe a really good night's sleep (thank you Xanax), maybe--and more likely--it was all the prayers lifting me up (thank you all). I feel stronger this morning. Something clicked overnight. I am ready to go to Plan B, and I need a plan for it.

I am committed to thinking of WH as an alien. I will not be sucked in my glimpses of H. I have to protect myself. I can't be where I was last night...not for me, not for my boys. They deserve better and I deserve better. I have to be tough. The light that I have in my lighthouse I need to shine for me and the boys. I can't waste my energy searching the waters for a ship that may never come in.

I read Lori's story regularly. She never went to Plan B, but she talked about how her H hated any SOB who cheated. That's my H, too. Something is dreadfully wrong with WH...but I cannot wait for H to come and kick this guy's a$$. H would want me to protect myself. H is dead now. He can't help me.

Part of me wishes I could do what Lori did...just be friendly and move on. She didn't go dark. She just outlasted the A.

So here we go:

I am thinking of calling Steve today...see if I can talk to him tomorrow. I want advice on timing re: the trip, the settlement conference, etc.

I have a draft PBL that I created a week or so ago. I don't want to post it for the whole world to see...but if a few of you are willing to share emails I would like some private feedback. ???

Just to be clear...the finances aren't the issue with SH. (Michigan is a union state, remember, cops do quite well and have awesome benefits; thus wanting to keep them as long as possible) I just didn't feel as comfortable with the whole thing as many of you have. Maybe Jennifer would be a better fit for me...but it's moot, I just want the M/R advice at this point. Personal work I will work on in IC.

Gotta run the kids to school.

I'd be interested to know what the fee for a Harley appointment actually is. I've heard amounts ranging from $170 up to $500. Is there a different fee structure for Jennifer as opposed to Steve?

I'd also be interested to know how many MB posters did actually consult, for how many sessions, and how useful they felt those sessions were.

Lilsis, I think your plan of action is right on. I am happy to see that you are feeling better today and that you plan on calling the Harley's for a blueprint for plan B. I am also happy that you are continuing your IC to help you with the "you" issues.
Have w wonderful day Lilsis.

MEDC

TA... while I support your right to discuss this stuff and may even agree with some of your points, this is not the place to do it. This is Lilsis's thread and you should start your own to discuss this matter (or continue it on the thread where you were called out by Mimi).

MEDC

morning, LS!
i am a little late again... i have to get my son to school early.....school is a good 20 minutes away...my H usually takes him on his way to work but he is out of town..... a crazy week for him to be away..(conferences, practices, meetings X3)....well, enough about me.

glad to hear you are feelign stronger this morning.
sound more like your old self....i am w/ you....get your plan B in order....I think it is time.
I never went to plan B....actually....I found MB while I was int he midst of my very own version of Plan A....funny, how many of us do that by instinct......and screw it up over and over again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I always thought your situation was a bit unique in that youe H had already moved out and filed for D before you could do anything much about it.
that made your plan A so much more complicated.

I think talking to Steve and working on your timeline is a great idea. I really do.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />LOVE YOUR PLAN!!!

Also on my to do list is to send in all the FOC stuff so that's on the books. Also, call my attorney and ask how we can stall, stall, stall. My sister told me last night that he should be able to provide me with some kind of schedule of what's going to happen and when so that I am not blindsided by these things again...not good for my emotional health.

As meggy said, the court sort of takes it over and moves these things through the system unless I am proactive about dragging it out and getting it OFF autopilot.

Now that I'm in a good place and feeling strong, I REALLY DO NOT want to get bogged down here in discussions about this, but one last comment:

For me, it's both. By letting go, I am taking back control of my life and living it for ME and the boys, not for him anymore. Plan A was like living my life around this ugly alien being. Plan B is accepting that the ugly alien being is NOT my H. It is saying good-bye to my H, and letting him sort it out on his own. It is saying to myself--and BELIEVING--that I do not deserve this and cannot live like this. It's living for me again.

It's acceptance! I FINALLY feeling like I'm getting it...my heart is getting in synch. My heart is starting to believe in myself, in God....believing that I'm worth more than this. It is taking control, and by taking control, I need to let go of the hold that WH has on me, my life, my actions, my finances...everything.

WH is just a body, a person who looks like my H and who has the legal rights of my H. But he's not him.

If the person in that body ever gets to a point where he is willing to FIGHT for ME, let him. After all that he has put me through, he HAS to be willing to do the really, really hard work that is required. I have been fighting alone...I'll fight along side him...for now...but there will come a time when it is too late...when I won't be willing to fight along side him anymore. Or...if he's too far gone, he may never be willing to fight.

And clearly, both of us need to be willing to fight. Infidelity cannot be defeated by one person.

My love bank was low, and yesterday was a major withdrawal. I'm worried that it's too late already? Did anyone else feel like this???

Just to be safe, I called WH this morning (it is freezing rain outside) and asked for a road report. After I returned home safely with no scares, I TMd him: "Thanks for getting me the best tires $ could buy! It was a piece of cake. You be careful."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quick threadjack to answer TA's first question. The answer is on the website Here

I agree with MEDC that the rest of the discussion belongs on another thread.

LilSis

I think that for many BS's (certainly for me), there comes a point where you stop fighting for the marriage because you want to, and start fighting for it because you have to, for your children and their future. I remember a moment when I stopped thinking "What did I do wrong? Come back, I'll be perfect in future!", and started thinking "Wait a minute. I don't deserve to be treated this way. It is absolutely not OK for him to behave like this."

This is a big moment; it's kind of like the BS fog clearing to reveal a grim reality. I know I struggled for months to recover the image of myself as His Only Love, and letting go of that was deeply painful. He was in a fog, but he'd allowed himself to get into that fog, step by selfish step. The man I was married to was capable of inflicting the deepest hurt on me. I did not want to be married to a man who could not look after me better than that.

The good news is that this is what needs to happen for a good marriage recovery, and for the recovery of you, no matter what happens to the marriage. Unless the BS is willing and able to take the heat of being the bad guy for a while, of setting standards and being hated for doing so...the 'recovery' just becomes a papering-over and the WS learns nothing. For yourself, you need to be clear that your H's infidelity does not define you, it does not mark you down as substandard.

This is the beginning of healthy letting-go.

TA

Just to put this out there again because things tend to get lost sometimes in all the discussion:

***Are there a couple of people willing to privately review my PBL? I do not want to put it up for global consumption.

***Anyone willing to respond to this question: My love bank was low, and yesterday was a major withdrawal. I'm worried that it's too late already? Did anyone else feel like this???

Smidg: there is another thread...entitled TA, started by mimi.

Got it, neak. thanks

Although people post Plan B letters here all the time - it helps others to see how someone else handled this.


It's not too late or else you'd be calling your lawyer to expedite the divorce. You wouldn't still be hanging out on MB preparing to go to Plan B <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mulan