It did help. Thank you for the response. I am just always wonder about how I'm doing and where I should be at in this whole process. My W has been very good about everything. I really can't complain about that. Like I told her, a lot of my problems are my insecurity. I just want us to be happy again. It's a fine line when it comes to talking about the A. First of all, it's not like I want to talk about it 24/7. It's also not an attempt to attack her. (I have an anger journal for all that stuff, lol) I think it's just natural that I am trying to look for answers to certain things.
She has read some of the posts here and I encouraged her to maybe even post herself, but I think that she is a little ashamed. I told her though that, heck, I get some of my best support from FWS. Anyway, thanks again for the response, it really helped.
Jim

bump

?

Mrs Rock was gonna post here and I was helping her find my post.

Welcome Mrs. Rock

Please feel free to ask question and offer things that need to be changed with Mr Rock. He owns 1/2 of the marriage problems and need to work on them to become a better husband.

anyway - welcome agian

Rock,

Tell Mrs Rock to let us know. We look forward to her posting. I think she will find this site a bit surprising. Although warn her that she may get a few 2x4's most will do their best to help her anyway they can.

It sounds like things are progress at the appropriate pace.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks guys for the encouragement. She will be on later. She is being room mother for our dd's kindergarten class this afternoon.
Thanks again.

Well, she is just gonna lurk here for a little while. I said lurk away! She says that she doesn't want to be pressured into posting. I said no problem.

HI, I'm, sorry that I haven't been keeping up with you...it's been so interesting here lately...

I have to take it that things are good well enough...being that Mrs. Rock is lurking...HI!

Good for the two of you! I'll try to check in more often...I've got so much going on at work and at home...I'm good through...

You too, take care!

Hi Rinder,
First of all, thank you for checking up on me and my thread. I appreciate that. You don't have to apologize at all.
Secondly, I have been reading your latest thread and I really wish for the best for you. Stay strong and hang in there.
Thanks again for the well-wishes. Be strong!

Mrs Rock

Come on aboard. You will get tremendous help from both BS's and WS's here. Yes, you may get a 2x4 or two before its over but in general people here are here to help you and Rock overcome and build a new and better M. There are many FWS's here that have gone through everything you have and will go through in rebuilding a new M. They can be of great assistance. So come on down when you are ready!

Thanks for the encouragement H&P.

I'm having a bad night. It's all so hard to swallow sometimes. There can be no pain that compares to the ultimate betrayel of someone you trusted more than anyone. I never would thought that my WW had that amount of selfishness and thoughtlessness in her. Now don't get me wrong, everytime I think about what she did, Iknow that I had an A too. I just know that I learned so much from my mistake. That's why I think this is so hard for me because I know how senseless affairs are. I read all these horrible stories on these boards and I just can't understand what all these WSs are thinking?
What about the person you married? How can you love someone enough to decide to marry them and then throw it all away for some fogged out fantasy? I don't get it.
I never thought that I would be in this situation. I love my wife. I have for 24 years. SOmetimes I will get all nostaligic and page through our wedding photos or our notes to each other back when we were dating. I sit alone and cry as I remember all the good times. We were so happy.
I never thought that life could be so cruel. My wife seems to try and distance her from our past. She tells me that people and situations change. I tell her that one thing hasn't changed and that is that I love her.
That is one thing (besides our two beautiful DDs) that keeps me going is that I see myself as a man of character now and I will live the rest of my life committed to the vows that I took before God and my wife. I don't believe in just cutting and running.
When I first came here many of you told me that this will be the hardest thing that I will ever do or go through. You have all been 100% correct.
I've been trying Plan A and have realized that this Plan is to make me a better person. Every day I seem to realize a little more about myself and discover a lot about myself too.
I can't change the past. If I could, I would. I would start by going back to the summer of 1994 and made some better decisions. But I can't take back what I did. I can't go back and change the decisions that my WW made also. All I can do is work on the present so I can have a better future. I've learned a lot about love, commitment, trust and honesty over the past five months.
I've learned about LBs that I was doing. I've learned that although I love my W dearly, I have to love myself also. I've learned that there is a lot of things that I have to work on in my marriage. Communication being #1.
I have learned the value of commitment and the sanctity of marriage. I feel now like sitting down with the bride and groom at any wedding that I attend and lecture them about the importance of their vows and to love, cherish and honor each other forever. (Man I must be talking weird because it's late).
I really don't know what I'm trying to say here so I will wrap this up. I just know that I love my wife, but I'm not really sure if she loves me much anymore.
Thanks for listening to my little vent.
Rock

Rock,

I am going to repeat a story I have told here many times. It is a personal story, but I think it might have bearing on you and Mrs. Rock.

My father was a career military officer, a pilot. He fought in 3 wars. As kid he was my hero. Of course he was my father right? He was a leader and it came naturally to him. So naturally I respected him a lot. As I got older, he and I would cross swords so to speak, what teenager doesn't, but he was still my hero.

As I got even older, was in the military myself, I got to meet many of his old war buddies (the ones that survived), and I found out my Dad was not perfect. I learned more about his childhood, how he grew up, the depression, and that fact that he had his faults. He would tell me then as we became friends not just father and son, how many faults he had, and how he regretted many things in his life. Often even things he had no control over. In fact, as he got older and his health was failing, I learned even more.

But, what my father never understood was that as I learned he was not perfect, and perhaps not "heroic" as I thought as a kid, I became even more proud of him. Because I began to realize that he had accomplished alot in his life "inspite" of being human, with human failings. As this awareness came to me, I came to learn that it is not the failings that determine someone but how they overcome them.

Rock you and Mrs. Rock have failed in your life as we all have, but what will be the measure of both of your lives is how you overcome them. Rock, your W is human and she can learn, she can grow, she can overcome, just as you can. The measure in the end is what you two do with those abilities. How well you two seize this OPPORTUNITY to overcome failure and pain.

What you two are very likely to find is that you will become each other's heros, and it will be because you are human and can fail that it will mean so much. If either or you were perfect, the challenge and the reward would NOT be what it can be.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks for the touching story JL. It helped me to look at things a little differently. I know that my WWs A brought up a lot of my feelings about my past. In my heart I know that I made a terrible mistake and I know that now I am a much better person and that I would never hurt my W like that again. My IC told me that I am racked with guilt and I have to learn to forgive myself because it will always hold me back from moving ahead.
Your story reminded me of something I told my wife a little while ago. I told her that I felt that someday I should tell my DDs what their daddy had done because sometimes I feel so guilty because they look up to me and love me so much. I think to myself that they have no idea that daddy really isn't the great guy that you think he is. She told me that we wouldn't tell them though.
Thanks for the great story!

Rock,

Radical honesty is a concept for the married couple. But, I think that you and your W need to come to complete agreement about the kids, no matter which way you go.

I am glad my story touched you. I do think you need to realize you can and will be defined more for what you do AFTER messing up, than the messing up itself. Forgiveness is NOT the same as forgetting Rock. Forgiveness, is the willing to set aside the option of retribution for something done that harms you. You are punishing yourself and it is not productive. Rather than do that, why not vow to be the better man, a man more aware of other people's foibles (sp), and a man that has learned from his mistakes. Such an approach will help you, it will help your loved ones, and it will help people around you. You won't forget, nor should you. But, you can decide to learn your lessons and "pay it forward".

Your W should also consider this course of action. I am guessing if she could she would really like to "forget" what she did. But, that means no lessons learned, no improvement, and no gains.

Please think about it and remember you can be a hero without being perfect. So can Mrs. Rock.

God Bless,

JL

I have learned from my mistakes and am trying to be a better man. I think, no, I know that I am a better man now. It just sucks that I had to go through such a terrible experience and nearly lost everything that I had to learn my lesson. That's why it is so hard for me to make any sense about the reason that my WW did what she did.
As far as what lessons, if any, that she takes from her bad decisions we will see. I just hope for the best. All I can be is the best man, husband and father that I can be.
Part of me just feels sorry for myself I guess and cannot forgive myself. Another part of me says, you know what, I regret what I did, I realize what a terrible thing it was, but it taught me some valuable lessons. And not that I'm glad that it happened, but I learned a lot of lessons from it like honesty and integrity.
I served my time, I manned up to what I did and tried my best to help my W heal. After the terrible thing that I did, I know that I did what was right and have been ever since and will continue to do so.
Sorry if this didn't make much sense.
Thanks for the response!
Rock

Ya KNOW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Rock, you have not been here very long, and clearly Mrs. Rock has been here less. One of the things that used to amaze me, (say 5 or 7 years ago) was that people would come on here and post a very difficult quandry. Hasn't happened much lately, but I will offer it for your consideration.

Usually one or both of the couple would come on and post here that their marriage has recovered. In fact, their marriage is now better than ever, although the scars from the affair/affairs are still there. What concerned them was that it seemed to have taken an affair to lead to this positive change in the marriage, and that bothered them greatly. I mean who recommends having an affair to improve the marriage, right?

Well, I and many others explained that it was not the affair that led to this new and improved marriage, it was how the couple reacted and responded. How often the affairs leads to more open and honest communications. How using the plans and guidance here, made it clear to each of them what the wanted and needed from the other. How being honest, open, remorseful, and yet forgiving led to a new level of intimacy.

It was not the affair, the affair was just the catlyst for two good people to really look at what was happening in their marriage, and their responses, willingness to learn and change perspectives really made the marriage better.

I wanted to ask you something the other day and thought I would now. Has your W forgiven you for your failures in the marriage, and I don't mean your affair, although that is clearly something that forgiveness would help? You see when she does, it will help HER alot. You will like it as well, but really forgiveness is about the person doing the forgiving.

Have you forgiven your W for how she has acted in this marriage? I don't mean just her affair, but the times you have felt she has let you down and not been the W you wanted and needed?

When you and Mrs. Rock talk, consider this as a topic of discussion.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

This is good and I (we) will really have to think about that. As far as my A, I know that she has ever forgiven me, but in a way I never felt that I deserved forgiveness for what I had done. As you can see our communication is terrible. I think we fear talking to each other, I know I do. But, yes, your questions are certainly some good stuff for me to think about. I will let you know what I (we) come up with. Thank you so much for your help.
Rocky

When you and Mrs. Rock talk, consider this as a topic of discussion

That's the whole problem. We really don't talk that much. I am just afraid to bring up things right now. Ecspecially when things are going ok. I don't want to rock the boat. I just hope that someday we can really discuss issues. I just don't think she really cares about our M. It's so sad.