Update -

W is at the Counselors as i type this. She came to me Tuesday morning and said she wanted to start right away. I gave her my appointment time for this week.

Tuesday night we had a problem: went out with some old high school friends. I had not had any beer in over a week. W of course drinks most nights (when the topic comes up she says it is her business and she will let me know if she thinks its a problem). Came home and to my surprise she was very receptive...
BUT...
i don't want to be too descriptive but basically she could have gotten pregnant. It was a very big deal to her.
Last night she asked me to sleep in the other room so it did not happen again. I don't know how long i will be sleeping in the other room.

Anyway...
at least she is at counseling. At least she was receptive the other night (it had been at least three months).
I took these as positive signs.

God Bless and Happy New Year.

KCM, it would appear that drinking and a very poor self-image are your wife's main problems. The drinking is a way to "escape" reality....and it leads to addiction. From the frequency and amount she drinks, I'd say that she probably IS an alcoholic already, but will refuse to admit it.

So your first problem is with the bottle. But it also sounds like she needs some intense psychological counseling regarding her self-esteem, self-image issues.

I take it that faith doesn't play much of a role in her life, so we'll not go into "faith based" helps at this time.

God bless.

I am starting a Bible Study class on Jan 9. She wants to go with me. I am trying to make faith a bigger part of my life. She seems to be interested.

QUESTION - given that she is going to counseling today. What do i do if she confesses another affair? After the affair of two years back i told myself i would divorce her if it happened again, no matter what.

Only YOU can make that decision. If there are kids in your family, perhaps what you told yourself before was something you "decided" while in the throes of a great deal of emotional turbulance. Those kinds of things should be decided with a calm mind, and spirit.

SD

well said. Thank you.

Does anyone know what to expect in terms of the Marriage Counseling thing? I like the guy i'm using. He is very faith based but i've heard horror stories from this site on MC's and the negative impact they've had. Any suggestions?

ASK them straight up if they've heard of Dr. Harley, Marriage Builders, and if not, you might want to look further. Nearly all advice given here is based on his principals.

Beware, as many MC are not pro-marriage, and their goal is to help you through an amicable divorce.

You'll know soon enough. But don't be afraid to search for a "better" one, if you have any doubts.

SD

If you like the guy you are using then stay with him. If not, then change. The thought around here is that most (not all) MC are not that great.

Yep, I had a MC that wanted to help me through divorce. I told her about this site and she had no idea who Dr H was. Not everyone in that field would though. I stopped going to her.


Like SD said - you will know if they are right for you.

M2L

Pray to God for guidance should that fear materialize.

Ask yourself the question about forgiveness and evalute where you think her heart is NOW, not then.

Ask yourself if you still love her "for better or for worse" and what your vows meant/mean to you regardless of circumstances.

God bless.

FH - You don't make this very easy. Quiting sounds a lot easier than that. JK.

I've given her the "I took a vow" thing recently. She was very upset by it. She told me that she would live up to the vow also but "i will never love you and i will never have sex with you again".

Of course Tuesday night she told me she loved me and the other thing i already talked about. SO maybe that was all Fog Babble.

You know how you can tell if it's FOG BABBLE???

Their lips are moving! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SD

rofl....NO, it's not easy, but neither is divorce. "Running" always seems like the easy way to deal with danger and unpleasantness, but you can never seem to run far enough to escape it, or other problems that get in the way.

Besides, God tells us that problems are a "way of life" for believers. It is not the problem, it is how we react to the problem and who we turn to for help that God is interested in. Consider this life our "proving ground" for the process of Sanctification and becoming more "Christ-like."

It is what it is.... and then there is our "everpresent help in time of pain and sorrow and trouble."




Ya, we've all heard this flip-flop sort of stuff in one form or another. btw....there WAS an affair, right? Do you think she might be just a l i t t l e messed up in the head right now??

Remember, if there is NOT love in the marriage, it is the fault of the husband, because God has commanded husbands to love their wives and placed the leadership responsibility for love in the marriage on the husband. You can choose to treat that command as a curse or as a blessing, but the responsibility remains regardless.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

God bless.

FH - the answer to your question "There WAS an affair, right?" - YES. 7/14/04 was d-Day. I was here on this site starting in August of 2004.

I did not have the courage to fully implement the Plan's of Dr. Harley. Instead I took the path of least resistance - conflict avoidance. Anything that would avoid the ugliness.

Worked out great, huh! What a wise decision by me!

This time around I do not think there is an affair. I think W's lifestyle has been the big issue. I enjoy being a husband and father. W enjoys being a mother. W has become immersed in the world of acting. She started out doing commercials locally. Then she got into some independent films from local people, which is how she met OM two years ago. After the A she kind of stopped with the acting thing until summer 2005 when a former high school friend who lives in LA came back to our town to film a movie about his childhood. This is a guy who most people would recognize. He's been on a TV show for years. W got a part in his film. Since then she's been DETERMINED to succeed at the acting thing. It is all she talks about.

She used to be very judgmental of mothers who worked all the time. She used to talk about how she was so grateful to be a SAHM. Now she works all the time and gets Babysitters constantly. The women she has befriended in this business are ALL divorced, not one single Happily Married person. W talks about how great they are and how courageous they are for leaving their H's even when everybody told them not to.

And the kicker to this whole thing is…
Our family budget pays for it. I make pretty good money, not great but pretty good. W works a lot but she doesn’t make as much as she spends. She probably covers 60% of the cost and our family budget picks up the rest. We’d be putting away an extra 10K a year if she’d quit this thing. HOWEVER, I don’t hate it, because it makes her so happy. She talks all day about what she learned.

I know this sounds like a situation ripe for another A, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on. I really think she’s got herself in a situation where she is questioning our life together and whether or not she really wants this life. In fact, that part I know. When she gets into her funk it is over some failure or setback in the acting field. She starts saying things like “maybe I should just quit and go back to being a SAHM”. She doesn’t say it as if it is the worst thing in history but she obviously does not want it.

For my part I want her to succeed. I want her to be happy. I am fearful that as soon as she does make it, she’ll dump my b**t and I will have paid for her “startup”. I will have enabled her to leave me and create a brand new life without us together as a family. The flip side is that I don’t want to be her excuse for failure. I don’t want to be he “reason” for not going after her dream. My ‘reason’ for sticking it out is because I love her, and part of love is wanting the other person to achieve their dream.

WOW this has gone on longer than I had originally intended. And I have NEVER said any of this to anyone before. This is definitely counselor stuff.

Any thoughts?

I need some suggestions here:

W and i talked this morning. It was very civil and we both explained how we felt. I asked her what her goals were for counseling to which she said, "i've pretty much made up my mind that i want a divorce. I just want the counselor to be able to tell me if i'm making a huge mistake. I don't want to regret my decision." She went on to explain her same old stuff: loves me like a brother, does not have any romantic feelings for me, our relationship has had so much hurt over the years that she just can't get past it, etc.

My question is this: W is a VERY headstrong person. Once she says that she has made up her mind... NO ONE can change it. Example, she made up her mind that she wanted to give herself bangs, for a couple weeks she would ask everyone, friends, family, etc. THEY ALL told her not to do it. Not one single person said "yes, you should", in fact everyone told her "no, don't do it". Guess what she does... gives herself bangs. And then Guess what... she hates them.

Part of me thinks i should just give her what she wants and let her see how it is. She keeps talking like the two of us are going to have this great friendship and that we will still do things together as a family. That the only difference will be that we live in seperate houses. Doesn't that sound completely insane?

Any thoughts?

The fog is so thick the fog horns are goin off!!!! Whether she is in an A or not.

IMHO she has no idea what she wants at this time. You need to get with a plan and start to work on it. Stop reacting every time she says something that's hurtful.

Get busy on you, until you get in control of your' emotions you are no good to her or your' M.

I'm sure this has all been said before but listen to those on here they really can help you, whatever the outcome, but only if you will take their advice and work on it.

KCM,

It sounds like an affair (Emotional, Physical) to me. Likely someone "in the business".

I know this, IF SHE CHOOSES to leave THIS LIFE she leaves without the kids, without the home, without the majority of the FAMILY's money, without my friendship, support, encouragement, without all that she one time wanted and no longer wants. IF she goes, let her go on her own. Be prepared to fight to the death in court for the kids. She has and is proving to be a terrible example of a mother and seriously looks as if she wants nothing to do with it and had rather believe that she can go and become the next Angelina Jolie or something.

A couple steps forward.

#1 - I have started getting over the mental hurdle which has always been my biggest issue: realizing that I have to commit myself to being Okay No Matter What. Realizing that even if i do all the things in Plan A, it might not work out.

I have struggled with this for a long time. I worry that i'm setting myself up for massive heartache. BUT...
over the long weekend i started thinking about my situation differently. Talking to the counselor (who gave me some positive thinking excersizes) i decided that i would focus on doing only those things which i could control. Then i would release any thoughts or actions which i knew would bring me no benefit whatsoever, or which put the focus on things i can't control.

#2 - I decided to just have fun. DO the things i like to do. Don't focus on the W's words. DO have fun with the kids and friends, and if W wants to come along for the ride she's more than welcome.

So far so good. I have my moments when i get upset thinking about the possible future, but i usually follow those thoughts with a "if that happens, i'll figure out a way to make the best of it"

As far as this week goes...
W is having a counseling session today.
I have a counseling session on Thursday.

We will see what the counselor wants us to do as far as starting the joint sessions. I suspect he will want to get started on that next week.

Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I know i have the strength inside me, i just don't want to have to use it.

God Bless.

KCM,

Ah finally you are getting it. You have just begun to realize that you can ONLY work on you. You are the only one that can make you happy. And further, these plans are for YOU, not your WW.

You will also come to realize that a happy, smiling, serene KCM will be a very good father, and attractive fellow, and yess perhaps even attractive to your W. But, really if you look at those traits they are about YOU and for YOU.

The plans here are to give the marriage the best chance of success, and interestingly they work best when done with the idea that you WILL SURVIVE. You WILL KNOW you have done all you can, and you also realize that you have a life beyond this marriage.

Congratulations, now get to work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

W had counselor appointment yesterday and I confess to harboring anger over her actions last night.

#1 - her behavior since her appt can only be described as fake. She is ULTRA polite and cheery every time she talks to me. So much so that I made the mistake of asking her why she was behaving that way. She responded that she was told to act like that by the counselor. I think he probably talked to her about letting go of anger and trying to be happier and see the good in things.

#2 - I got a note on my pillow (i sleep in our extra bedroom because she asked me to about a week ago), which said. Dear (KCM) I forgive you for taking advantage of me while in a "drunken situation" the other night. Thanks for letting me have a career.

The reason this is upsetting is: where is her responsibility in the situation from the other night. IF you don't remember, the two of us went out with old friends, we'd both been drinking and when we came home i put the moves on W. It did not go well because of birth control issues. Since then she has been asking me questions about how much i drank that night and then arguing with my answer. Apparently in her mind I "took advantage" of her because i was less intoxicated and therefore the responsible party.

While I understand that sex between the two of us has always been an issue. And i understand that she says she is not attracted to me and does not want to have sex with me. Why does that exonerate her of any responsibility for agreeing to the act? Where does she come up with the idea that i should be "forgiven" for trying to have sex with my wife?