They are going to allow it. They know about the A and everything. I tried to use this but I was ineffective.

The foster care system is effed up!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

Obivously!!!!

Hi HB. Glad to see you're getting so much good support.

Why was my Plan B short lived?
LB had wanted us to continue being "friends" while he was still actively involved in his A. That was unacceptable to me. I tried like crazy to maintain a friendship w/him b/c W's should be friends first w/their H's; however, I always wanted more. I could feel my love for him disappearing & it was just too painful for me to bear anymore. So, I wrote him a letter telling him that I could no longer maintain our friendship b/c it hurt too much & when he was ready to work on our M, then I would resume the friendship. I walked away from him & it hurt like crazy. But I knew that if I continued on the path I was on, I would drive myself insane. It lasted about 4 days or so (see Sloppy Plan B ) & then about a month later, we had a talk (see Heated Discussion ) & about a week later, he agreed to move back home. I now know looking back that when I broke NC, I wasn't really ready for Plan B when I did it. So tread carefully in your actions, HB.

On the lawyers & the seperation agreement, I would also research this very carefully. I'm not sure about where you live, but most states that I know of do not keep children away from A partners. As long as they're not abusing the child physically, there usually isn't a whole lot you can do about it. The courts usually turn a blind eye to adultery.

For the record, I agree w/everything that FH had to say. He's a wise man, listen to him. Please make sure to go to God w/everything & ask Him what's the best course of action. I also agree w/M2L in that leaving things in God's hands doesn't mean that we sit on our butts. The thing God & only God can do is soften her heart. Soften her heart. But she has a hardened heart, so she will be resisting a lot. Doesn't mean that God can't do it, but that He's probably going to have a difficult case on His hands, & He's quite capable of doing it. However, there are things you can do in the meantime. And everyone here is helping you w/those things.

Did you ever answer about what changes you have made? Let's start w/that. I know it's difficult to imagine what EN's your W was missing, but let's try. What kinds of things would she complain about pre-A? Would she voice any complaints? Really do some introspection here before you answer.

And please, whatever you do, do not make changes in the HOPES that your W will notice. What I mean by that is by looking over your shoulder every day, each contact you have, & ask, Did she take notice? Do NOT ask her if she's noticed. That just reinforces her thinking that you're only doing this to get her back & then things will go back to same old, same old. I can almost guarantee that's where her mind is right now. "He talks the talk, but is it really going to be different?" And DO NOT mention God. He's the LAST being she's thinking about. Leave her repentance to God & God alone. She's not ready to face God yet. That relationship will heal in time. Let God handle that one.

As far as your DD is concerned, I have not had the experience like you have had. LB took our kids regularly & spent a lot of time w/them while he was gone; however, kids need stability, even in this chaotic situation. A regularly scheduled pick up time & drop off time should be adhered to. If WW does not follow the scheduled agreement on her own, then a court ordered custody arrangement is in order. Like someone else said (sorry, don’t remember who b/c there’s so many people here), something w/meat that is legal & binding if she doesn’t follow it.

Marsh, just a note that in a lot of states, adultery is just not a big deal anymore unfortunately. It doesn’t surprise me that DSS isn’t doing anything. Angelina Jolie was allowed to adopt & look at her history!!! Plus, my ex sister in-law has had CPS called on her so many times b/c she’s a terrible mother & they consistently do nothing to take those kids away from her & into their father’s home (my BIL) which has stability. They ARE messed up!! Makes me shake my head in bewilderment. Foster care, child protective services (who are supposed to be PROTECTING these children), judges, etc. just don’t consider adultery to be anything of significance anymore. Unless the child is being physically assaulted, most of the time they don’t do anything. They don’t take into consideration the emotional scars that harm a lot of these children. And then they wonder why we have so many children committing crimes, doing drugs, drinking, all this stuff. A lot of it is b/c of things they’ve witnessed as children & the lack of morality that gets handed down to these kids by their parents.

Johnstwin, Hey now! My husband wears Axe & I think it smells great!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I did not get to talk to WW this morning. As I woke up late. I let D out of truck and she went to the door and went in and I left. So I don't have much to comment on this morning.

When do you pick up your DD?

~ Marsh

pHB,

We need to start fresh with a good Plan A. This alone may not break up the A, but it will be a good setup for Plan B. Kinda like in baseball when the pitcher throws inside almost hitting the batter. This pitch was not a strike, but it setup the batter for the next one on the outside of the plate for strike three.

After about 4-6 months of Plan A then plan B would come along. This time line lets your wife see who you have become and what she will be missing without you. She will not say this herself or even notice it right away. Then plan B hits (if needed) her right in the face like cold water. The things you did for her or just talking and being there for her are now gone. She will have to live without you.

"let her choke on Plabn B" that has been said here many times and it does happen.

I like dusting off a WS from time to time. Back in the days of Bob Gibson, though, they'd just bean 'em.

Don't know yet. I will talk to her this afternoon.

Ok can you give me some pointers on a good Plan A attack. I don't have my D tonight so I will be online reading up as much as I can to ready myself for this. Thanks to all who have got me to this point. Now guide me on Plan A. The only thing is that I really don't have 4 or 5 months. WW is looking to Div no later than Aug. I have to be quick and accurate. So let me know what you guys think

You need to plan for when you pick her up.

Look great.

Be upbeat.

If possible, have some place to take DD, and invite your WW to go w/ you.

~ Marsh

Here is a list of Dos and Don'ts that Marsh gave to me.

DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP


This is a start. Don't worry about the Aug D time line. She will have time to change her mind, but only if you become an object of desire for her.

I printed out this list and still have it in my wallet today.

Again, you can't rush this and you are not getting D right now so don't worry about that.

Marsh gave them to me also. I have them printed and I will start to carry them in my wallet




I don't want it to last that long but I am going to try to be the object of her desire.


I am very impatient. That is why I come on here so much to vent and get good guidance.

I just talked with her and D and I will be picking D up Saturday morning. So I have time to get me some new clothes and prepare to knock her socks off.

While talking with her I didn't mention anything about yesterday and I talked like I was happy. She said you can get her Sat. and I said why not Friday when she gets out of school. She said well that will be fine and then I thought to myself, be active, and I said well I will just pick her up Sat. morning because I will be going somewhere Friday night with some friends. She paused and said well OK just let me know. The only thing that bothered me was the fact she sounded eager to get off the phone. Not like someone was there but like the more she hears my voice the more it either disgusts her or is drawing her back. She has been hearing the difference in my voice recently, its more of a pleasing sound rather than brash or hateful if you catch my drift. I just have to remember to sound loving all the time instead of critical.

Don't want it to last that long? Many people here can tell you that a good well done recovery would take min 6 months. Most take up to 2 years. That doesn't mean veryday or week will be crap. It gets SLOOOOWLY better with time.

These changes that you make to yourself will be seen by her in time and thru her eyes not yours. Don't push these changes just to make her notice. You have to make the changes you feel will make you a better person.

Keeping calm in the face of her storms is a good place to start.

I was referring to the A. I don't mind recovery because that will be the time I will be putting to use everything I am learning. I just want the A to be over. I feel that if he was out of the picture it would be easier for her to look at me and want to do the right thing. Now she sees him and he is telling her not to or the other way around. She would have time to herself and let God direct her. She surrounds herself with fools right now and that is keeping her going and going and going.

got it

M2L
One quick question since both of us and wives are close in age. Is this something that they just go through,kinda like mid life, or is this something that they just get caught up in. I am seeing so much of it that it makes me wonder if this is some kinda fad or something. They look at it like well look at them, they seem to be handling it well so I think I'll try it. The culture is so messed up that my WW truely believes that our D will be ok with this.

M2L
Forgot 2nd question. How did your friends treat you? Some of mine are telling me leave her be, you don't deserve this and you should not put up with it. Let her go and find you someone. Others say do what you feel lead to do and we will be there for you. That is my true friends I beleive.

#1
I don't know about the age thing. I have read here over 150 hours and I have seen this happen at many ages.



#2
I told one friend in real life and he told me to fight for her. Other than that you have been talking to my other friends right here. They all will tell you to fight for her and your M.

I have read this question before and most say F the friends who tell you to drop her and D the Bit**. I agree. Until they are in your shoes with your life and M on the line they should just support whatever you want to do.

Well said.