Which plan are you in?

I'm in Plan A. I have been unable to set up a schedule for custody, finances, etc, as soon as that is complete. I am going to Plan B.

When you have the meeting be sure to tell him that you are his WIFE, and if you want a friend, you will get a dog.

I found it interesting in his email that he said neither one of us has anyone in our lives we can talk to who would really understand. You would think OW would understand, she's doing the exact same thing.

I have talked to OW H about these recent developments with WH. He has seen nothing from OW. They talk mostly when exchanging their son and he is continuing to work on the legal separation paperwork. She isn't fighting about anything but she is not in the same emotional state as WH either. I wonder if she knows?

I think you will do better when you are able to go go Plan B. WH seems to be relying heavily on you. When you talk to him, be sure to make it clear that you are his wife, and won't be his friend.

I think I will do better in Plan B also. It is so incredibly painful to watch him hurt and be so upset and lost. I was actually doing pretty well looking towards the future when he brought me back into it with that first phone call last week. Now I'm questioning everything again.

Today was the first time he emailed me in 4 months. He's broken and I'm at a loss as to where to go from here. with or without him.

You can expect the affair to end around mid Feb - 6 months is average when they are actually living together. He is doing this to himself, and then whining about it. Don't feel sorry for him. Start Plan B ASAP and let her fill ALL his needs.

Our divorce is final on January 31. I can't really go to Plan B until afterwards because of schedule for the kids.

I don't feel he has leaned on me at all. We have had extremely limited contact until Dec 29 when he called crying. Otherwise, he has absolutely stayed away from me. Bought cell phones for DDs so he wouldn't have to call the house phone and go through me. This is the first inkling I've gotten from him that he even has a thought about me once in a while. It's nice to see that he finally has feelings, they've been hidden for so long.

What would a lighthouse do? Be still?

What is the "discussion" going to be about?

just want to agree with B - make sure he understands with 100% certainty that you will not be his friend.
your email spelled this out fairly well, but keep that mantra going.
because if he continues this path - the day will come when you no longer love him - in fact you reach a point where you barely like him. IF he continues this path.

when I read your words "I will always love you" my first thought was - no you won't. If you get a D, and he continues with OW, eventually he will become someone you barely like.

I think your biggest struggle here is this: What do YOU want? The fog is clearly breaking. Are you interested in marriage with this man? You get to decide for yourself - he doesn't get to make this choice for you.

Something Mimi has been saying recently (I believe to eav and catgirl both) is that you want that man to come to YOU; you want him to WANT you. Now, in Plan A, I think this is a subtle action; in Plan B it's pretty obvious, because a WS must then answer to your boundaries without question.

Question is, do you feel like he is reaching out to you for you, for family? I'm not saying to ask him this, I'm saying to ask yourself this.

believer,

the discussion is supposed to be about a schedule for the kids. Which would get me into Plan B faster. I have a feeling he is going to turn it into a discussion about the whole situation and where we go from here...friends for the sake of the children, etc.

womanoffaith5,
You're right that is the decision. What do I want? I don't know right now. First and foremost, what is the best for DDs? I believe it is their parents together in a loving home. Can that happen for us? That's what I don't know. And I don't know how to find out without risking everything again. A false recovery would harm my children more.

My intent when I said I would always love him was more along the lines that he will always have a place in my heart. After all, he is the father of my children and we had many good years together. I will not always be "in love" with him. I'm not in love with him now. It's just so hard to see him broken and beaten and not try to help him out of it.

I had another rough night last night, rolling everything through my head again and again. This morning is much better. I know that I do have options and that I have to be careful not to get sucked back into his chaos.

Thank you so much for your thoughts.

silentlucidity,

I think Mimi is right. Maybe I don't need to agonize so much over what I should do. If he wants me than he needs to take action or say so.

I don't know if it is me or family that he wants. Initially I thought he just wanted family. By calling my brother on Christmas day when he was at my house and by calling the kids in the middle of functions we were doing with my extended family. But with the comment he made to my sister at the pool, the email he sent yesterday, and the phone calls to me when he is crying...makes me think he is reaching to me . I don't know if it is because he wants me or just to eat cake.

When WH and I talk on Saturday, one of the questions I was going to ask was what his future plans are with OW. Are they planning on getting married etc.... In one of our phone conversations lately I asked him if OW was divorced or was she getting divorced. He paused for a long moment and then said "I assume so". I told him that even after our divorce was final, hers was not and he was still living with a married woman and he should think about what lesson that teaches our DDs.

In our schedule agreement I intend to include no overnight stays of the opposite sex for either one of us and DDs are not to meet OW. Who knows, he may get out of his A before my DDs have to be exposed to her. DDs will be spending the night at OW/WH house this coming Wednesday but OW is out of town on business (which I have verified independently) and I will be doing a drive-by or two to check.

My thought is to offer him a schedule of one evening a week and every other weekend (he will have to make arrangements so they are not staying overnight when she is there, either she will have to leave or they will have to be elsewhere). It has been suggested to me that WH and I come up with a couple of different options and present them to DDs for their input. Is that too much pressure for them?

Please.......any suggestions?

Here is an email a friend of mine sent to his wife early last year. It may give you some strength in your discussion with your husband tomorrow.

Good luck...I am short of time this week. I really hope the door of opportunity is opening and that it was not just the holidays.

Mr. Wondering




WW,

Our conversation this morning just punctuated again what I have felt and left me again feeling empty. I have known for awhile that you do not know what you are doing in this. I know this morning’s phone call was probably about you finding out what I am up to…in order to possibly justify you going out and finding someone. You can feel better about heading out, if you know that I am also heading out. As well as trying to hurt me by talking about your interest in someone else.

As I said, I don’t want to hear about your life in that area. I don’t want to know about it. One day, when you marry…I don’t even want to meet or deal with your new husband. He can save his breath because I have nothing for him. But…since you did say you were thinking about dating someone, I would just add this (although I don’t know why I am wasting my time because I know you don’t want to hear it): WW, don’t lead some other guy into adultery again. It wouldn’t be so bad if you and OM were hooking up again because you are both down that road anyway. But you are still a married woman…and unless I commit adultery, you will remain so. Just as Jesus told the woman at the well that she had 5 husbands…God does not recognize nor bless what you are doing. So, as I don’t want to see another guy end up committing adultery, I ask that you think about what you are doing and whether you want that placed upon them.

Enough said about that. As I said…I know you don’t want to hear it. But as your husband, I am called to speak the truth. And now that I have…I can let that go knowing I have done as He asked.

I really didn’t intend to write a letter bashing you. You said in the conversation that you know what I think of you. No, no. You have no idea what I think of you. Sure, your fruit over the last 2 years leads not only me, but everyone around us, to believe certain things about you. But deep down, I know you WW. Better than anyone.

The thing you don’t realize is the depths of my love for you. It is readily apparent that you have no concept of that kind of love. It is the kind, though you slay me…I will still love you. It is the kind that let you back …only for you to betray me time and again. It is the kind that held nothing back when I tried to reconcile with you. As the Prodigal Son came home…you also were given everything as if you never left. It is the kind, that while anger welled up inside me against you and the OM…I never pursued vengeance.

It is the kind of love that would go to the ends of the Earth for you, and for our kids. You know, it is hard to hear about you comforting DD in this. Why? Well, let me give an analogy. Let’s say you were taking a hammer to my hand, and you break my hand. And then you come up and say “Here, let me hold you and make it all better.” Wait a minute…you were the one that caused it!

While I have a place in parts of our marriage where things weren’t perfect, I have no place nor responsibility in the adultery…nor the ulitmate divorce. Our kids live out of bags now. They are at your place for 4 days, then my place for 3. Their stability, their home…all taken away from them. And so, as they suffer through this, it is hard for me to see you comforting them because it is you that have caused their pain. And you have always had the power to fix this. But you have refused.

The kids are right to be angry about this. They will be right to be angry about new people in their lives. They deserved better. All they want is their family, their home…their futures back. I have had talks with them concerning this stuff…and they have revealed much to me. That they still do hope and pray that things will work out right. That they don’t want to accept anyone else into our family.

You said in that conversation we had right before court, that our relationship wasn’t that bad. That you knew of many marriages that were far worse. But, you said that “too much water has gone under the bridge.” And in that statement, you have relegated all of us to this mess that can never be fully fixed.

That statement is a lie from the pit of ******. I am not saying you are a liar, I am saying that you believe the lie. Unlike many women that have gone down the road you have, you have had a husband that was willing to restore you…and at the same time, begin to make changes in order to have the marriage and family we both deserve. Most guys would have kicked you to the curb…or made you pay for your betrayal. But you took that love and grace that I gave you…and said “no thanks.” Just as you took Jesus’ love and grace and said “no thanks.”

How can I say that? Because that statement about too much water under the bridge means that you believe that Jesus is a liar. He made many promises to us about what is possible if we bend our knee to His will. But your belief that too much water has passed is based on the fact that you refuse to bend your knee to Him and do the things that He commands and wants for your life. You want to remodel your life in your own image, instead of His will. And all you continue to make is a mess.

You search for love and meaning in all the wrong places now. This is why I say that I feel sorry for this guy if you date him and maybe even get serious…as he has no idea what you are getting him into. And no idea that one day, God willing…you will wake up and realize that you have been chasing a mirage all these years. That you had it all…but told God “no thanks.” He will miss out on what he deserves in a wife, because he got caught up in this mess and didn’t realize until it was too late…that God has had a different will for WW.

It says in the Bible that decisions such that you have made here go down three generations. Our kids and our grandkids will suffer because of your divorce. Study after study state that kids suffer their whole life from divorce. They are less secure, suffer mental constraints…and even have a higher chance of failing in their own marriages…because of divorce. As far as I am concerned, it is downright cruel!

And no amount of hugs, nor counseling, will change that. I am not saying that I am not doing everything I can to ease their pain. Because I am. But the pain will remain no matter what I do. Or a counselor does.

And all you have to say is what you said this morning “well, I hope God will heal Karen.” WW, YOU have the power to end her pain and give her the life she deserves. You just refuse to do so.

As I said above, you have NO IDEA how I feel about you! You don’t know the depths of my love. But because of those depths, and your continued rebellion to me and to God…I cannot have conversations with you about your life or mine. I have to interact with you because of the kids…and will continue to do so. But everything else, from your job, to your health…to the weather…well, you cannot do that with me outside of repenting and returning to our marriage and our family.

You know, when you first left, I remember you calling me one morning right after you came back from Montana with the OM. You called and were talking about the beautiful sunrise you were seeing as you went to work. Do you remember? A few weeks later, you came home supposedly to reconcile. But I remember getting off the phone with you and thinking: “why is she talking to me? She is with the OM. She is getting everything she wants now. Why is she calling me wanting to talk about the sunrise?” I think you know the answer to that question, WW.

But, we no longer can have those kinds of conversations. You have romanticized your future life. You have romanticized this divorce. You think that with time (just as you eluded to this morning), that things will settle down and everyone will be okay with all of this.

But the reality is…no they wont. No I wont. No, the kids wont. And in the end, you will realize that you wont either. The SADDEST day of my life will be when I hear that you finally realize the mistake you have made…and that you should have just committed to our family and the Lord.

I had wished that you had been serious about our reconciliations…but you weren’t. Even now, I hold the same misbegotten notions as the kids do, about how God will get thru to you and bring the Prodigal home. Where there is love and all is forgiven. But the fact is that I know you do not have the ability to make amends…that all you do is just burn bridges and move on rather than do the tough things…now makes me understand that the Lord getting thru to you is an impossibility.

You will see excitement, and even have the feelings of human love again. Maybe for this guy. Maybe for the OM. Maybe for another. But as things settle down…and all becomes quiet, you will realize that it doesn’t measure up to what God has given you…and what you have unthankfully and disrespectfully returned back to Him.

I am surrounding myself now with people that love the Lord. That understand the roles of husbands, wives…and of family. That understand that no matter what, you live up to your commitments and you stick with family. Relationships that will model for our kids what it means to follow the Lord. And because of my faithfulness to you and this family thru all of this, and me continuing to follow the Lord in a future relationship, I know our kids will look at me and say “My old man did it right.”

As with the Prodigal Son’s father, I have waited everyday…looking off into the distance. Waiting to see your form over the horizon…heading home to your family. That you would come home with “tears of repentance” and want to be a part of this family again. That the well-being of our two kids would be enough for you to do whatever it takes to make our marriage and our family work. But you remain in a far off land…pursuing your own will.

People call me a fool because of that. They said all along that you were not capable of repentance and that I should just give it up. Shoot, even your Dad told me that. And maybe I have been a fool. But it has been because of my love for you and for those kids that I have sacrificed and waited. The things of God are foolishness to the world. Just as you believe God healing our marriage and family is foolishness (ie. water under the bridge).

I know you have heard this stuff from me a thousand times. And I now go back to my silence with you. Moving our family forward. But still…one eye foolishly on the horizon. Until the day that is coming soon, when I will make the same commitment I made to you 16 years ago…to another. It is a very short time until that will happen. Very short.

So, go off and do as you will. No one has been able to stop you…nor can they. I have always wished that you would bend your knee to the Lord and do as He has asked of you. But, you still say “no thanks.” But please leave me out of your current life…as I want no part of anything that isn’t His will.

Devon

It's not exact to your sitch...but I saw you thought about discussing his intentions with OW. No way.

I hope it helps you.

It IS more of a in Plan B attitude. In Plan A, you'll want to be a little nicer...but use the stick about certain things like: Being Friends.

Mr. Wondering

Thank you, MrWondering. This letter touched me. I, too, am afraid that WH is only reacting to the holidays and the fact that my family came to surround me this year. While he was left alone with OW.

I'm doing my best not to jump to conclusions and read too much into his recent actions. This is how is was feeling the last few days, but is he feeling this today? And does it really matter? I let myself get all wound up again because of how HE is feeling. I was doing well and truly moving on and looking forward to the future. I feel like I got yanked back again. He is still living with OW and as of yet he is unwilling to remove himself from her. That is what I have to remember......nothing else matters without that being resolved.

I desperately need distance from him. After a schedule for the kids is resolved, can I do an effective Plan B while we are going through the divorce negotations? I will not be required to speak to him, but will have to see him at negotiations.

Thank you for responding, I feel I get lost on the boards sometimes since my situation is not very exciting to others. I've had months of nothing to report but have spent a lot of time keeping up with other posters' stories. They are an incredible source of inspiration, strength, and hope.

WH called again this morning to let me know where we are meeting tomorrow. And then he asked how DDs are doing. He talked to them both this morning before school.....

I'm afraid of pushing him away to where he doesn't think he can ever come to me. Even for reconciliation....but he's already gone, so how far away can he be pushed?

I think I will keep the discussion tomorrow strictly to DDs. Even if he brings up R, I will tell him I am not discussing ANY type of R while he still has contact with OW. Period.

Please give thougts on Plan B after our discussion tomorrow. Should I hand him the Plan B letter as we are leaving?

Are you prepared for Plan B????

You must go really dark for it to be effective.

The negotiations can be handled by your attorney for the most part. It's the emails, calls, text messages, exchange of kids, etc. that you've got to be prepared for. I also hope that your Plan B doesn't stink up the divorce/custody arrangement that WH is agreeing to currently. There may be just enough time for him to create a stink and TRY to turn the fight into a battle of epic proportions if Plan B and having to correspond through an intermediary pisses him off at the last second. His lawyer might conceive of an argument that YOU are not considering the kids best interests by going into Plan B. Consider carefully if a couple weeks is worth such possibility.

I hope you've read up on Plan B to the extreme.

If so...I say, now's as good a time as any.

I am not a Plan B expert (never done one myself) so I did not look over your letter. Maybe post the revised letter on a new thread for input tonight.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

It is too much pressure for them. I would not approach them. They don't want to see either of you hurt - so they will be afriad that if they choose plan "A" Dadddy may be hurt, or in plan "B" Mommy may be hurt.
also - as they get older, the day will come when someone has to make the final decision about something, and that someone needs to be you. It is best to establish yourself as the "Alpha Female" right now. You don't want to give them the impression that they can come and go as they please -staying with Mommy when they are happier there, but going to Daddys when Mommy is mean to them (making them clean their room, or do their homework!). See what I mean?

I also want to touch on something that you said - that your decisions about your WH need to revolve around what is best for the girls. There is some truth in that - certainly you need to think of their long term future well being. BUT - it is also OK to think about what is best for you. Because if you are taking care of yourself, then you are giving your girls a Mom who is happy and emotionally healthy.

I don't have any great adivice about your plan B - whether or not to hand him the letter tomorrow. I think you will have to go with your gut on that one. I do think that Plan B is a good way to send a strong message of "we will NOT be friends later - you are not free to call and cry on my shoulder about OW" it is good for him to finally see the reality of what his life would be like post D.

hang in there. you are doing all the right stuff.

I am sorry you are tossing and truning at night. Perhaps tonight when you can;t sleep, you could turn on the light and start writing in your journal. That will help you to sort your thoughts, and feel better prepared for the talk tomorrow.