No, I don't think your bad. I laughed too, I went to my room and cracked up!!! I kept the smirk off my face when DD13 told me, we had a bit of a discussion about taking advantage of things. I didn't necessarily tell her to stop, but felt I had to say something. It is nice to have things you just want as opposed to only what you need.

another thing that kind of gave me a giggle. DDs had borrowed a couple of my shirts and left them at his house on accident. I don't know why, I just find that kind of funny. Now she will be finding MY clothes at her house. hehehee I should my name in them so she KNOWS.

An interesting change has come over DD12 since this weekend. She has become much more pleasant. She has a bit of a reputation for her attitude and being a smart mouth. It has almost seemed that she isn't at all involved in her family falling apart. She doesn't talk about it at all, she sits closed mouthed when I've talked to both of them about it. When I've talked to her individually, she just says ok and whatever...no dialogue. Before this weekend, she'd have her moments of being pleasant but would mostly be a smart mouth....typical teenage stuff.

She came home Monday from WH and that evening we laughed and joked and had a really nice time. (amazing that this was after WH "talk" about me) She has been that way ever since...no smart mouth, doing things without an attitude when I ask, offering to make dinner, bringing me popcorn in the evening, etc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I like it....but what brought it on?

Did she have a good weekend with her dad and now realizes she is not losing him, or did his "talk" backfire and maybe she has some appreciation for me? Hard to imagine she would have any appreciation....that just doesn't sound like a preteen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> No matter what the reason, she has been an absolute joy to be around this week.

If you still have hopes of saving your marriage, I might have added something to that email (where you asked for no contact unless it is an emergency etc.): the parameters by which you would resume contact...ie: if he ends his relationship with OW and has NC with her forever...then you would consider a discussion on how to fix your marriage so you can both be happy in it...for the good of all concerned....something along those lines...

Not being familiar with your story; have you considered plan B and do you have a plan B letter written or are you set on a DV?

In my case, although neither one of us filed for DV, I had gone to talk to a couple of lawyers to see where I stood. One told me there wasn't any reason to rush to file for DV if I didn't want to DV at this point. We had no legal separation in my state. My FWH was fully agreeable to our support agreement during our separation(s). He knew he was the one at fault and he still felt responsible to provide for his family as we were accustomed.

The OW's H filed right away believing that my H was his WW's soulmate...that they were in LUVVVV. They did divorce and she made out quite well....her BS was wealth off financially.
He remarried a year or so later and she was left single after my H ended their A and reconciled with me. I don't know her status today...but my H was not her first A.

My DD is 12 and she goes back and forth on how she acts towards me. She sometimes shows great sympathy towards me regarding how much I do around the house and she'll pitch in a lot to help and she'll chat with me a lot. Sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get her help.

I was thinking maybe his little talk backfired. That's my gut reaction. She is having some sympathy for you and didn't appreciate dad trying to bring you down to his level. They are old enough to realize who did what first. Also, don't expect them to tell their dad they don't want to spend time with him or that they don't agree with what he's doing. They still need/want their father and probably feel that if they stand up to him he will get angry and go off or stop wanting to see them.

Divorce and separation of parents isn't easy. Especially in these situations. They feel like they are in the middle of a tug of war right now. When my parents D'd I was 17 and I REFUSED to have anything to do with him for a long time. But, I was older. My younger sisters did not feel the same as me.

Keep communicating with your D's. Continue to be the "sane" parent. It will work out well for you that way. Even when parents are together, it's still up to the individual to make sure they have a good R with their children. You can't force a spouse to be a good parent if they don't want to.

Fox,
I just wanted to add something real quick here.
the quote from your wedding - it is defiantely a beautiful love poem - but it is even more than that - it is a scriture verse, from the bible. You can find it in 1 Corinthians chapter 13, starting at verse 4:

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

and a little further in this passage comes this line:

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

it is a really nice passage from the Bible, I am glad it brings nice memories from you wedding.

It does bring back very special memories of our wedding. I was looking at some of our wedding pictures the other day. It's a little easier now and I don't instantly burst into tears.

I look at his picture....and try to find that man that I loved so much that day in the man that I have to deal with now. All the questions are still there, the why did this happen, the how how did this happen, the who the heck is he, the what could I have done, the why could he have just told me he wasn't happy. and why HER, and most of all, where did that man I loved so much go? (ok, now I did make myself cry)

I shouldn't look....it just hurts. But I'm trying to remember who he was, as I am quickly losing those memories. They are being replaced by the memories of things like this weekend.

After seeing her on Saturday I can honestly say that if I would have seen her at his office, I would have never considered her a threat. Small consolation, she still has him. The man he has become is not who I want anyway. I just wonder if H will ever return and if it will even matter anymore.

I am not yet in Plan B. I do have a letter written and was going to give it to WH on 01/15. However, after the events of the weekend, I decided it was not the right timing. He would not believe what I was telling him as far as my wanting to recover the marriage. I think he would have viewed it as payback...it was just bad timing after the events of the weekend.

The email I sent was not intended as Plan B. It was intended to get us both to take a step back and take a deep breath after the events of the weekend. I needed to calm down after just as much as he did. The instant I saw or heard his voice after that....I had my hackles up and didn't respond to him right because MY adrenaline was still so high.

I can already tell how difficult Plan B is going to be. In the email I told him I would not be taking his calls at my office unless it was an emergency. He called just moments ago, and I answered. He said it wasn't an emergency but it was easier for him to explain something over the phone. Long story short, a couple of weeks ago he had taken a part out of my pellet stove to have it repaired. It has not been returned. In an email I sent him this morning telling him he could have DDs on Saturday, I also asked him to return the part to the pellet stove so I could have it fixed. His call was explaining that it was in the process of getting it fixed...he had given it to another guy to repair. I told him I wasn't sure he was still going to do that, I thought he was so ticked that he'd just keep it. He said no, he was still going to take care of it for me. Where the heck did all that anger and accusations go? He was sounding like he sounded before this weekend. Am I "forgiven" already? I doubt it, but what happened? This man is notorious for holding a grudge and cutting anyone out of his life that he gets in a disagreement with.

I'm not sure what to think of his tone but this call made me realize just how he may try to test Plan B.

I would be willing to bet he will test plan b. You should read up on hopethisworks, he's a poster that went into a pretty dark plan B and his WS tried her best to test it.

I have a feeling he didn't mean a lot of what he said Sat. When he found out you were with OWH his jealousy got the best of him. So far he's been in control, he has felt he can read you and that he has a good hanle on you in general. You are beginning to step out from under his "control" and he isn't ready to let go. Also, the fact you didn't crumble into a sobbing mess that night probably has him flabbergasted. You've got him on his toes... I'm pretty sure of it.

I'd say wait on the plan B. You might not really want to recover your M at this point, so much damage has been done. And, you have to consider, do you really want to live your life looking over your shoulder and wondering if they are still in contact? You could wait until D is finalized and do a plan b for your mental health. You certainly don't need him bringing you down into his gutter...

That call from him just bugs me. He sounded like nothing ever happened. All swept under the rug.....again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

If he's mad at me...the whole world pays (and hears). If I'm irritated with him it's "aw, come on, honey, lets all be friends" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I don't think he meant a lot of it either...however, we had an understanding all through the marriage not to say things you didn't mean. If you said it, a part of you meant it. Otherwise it would not have been in your head.



I think my behavior surprised him also. He was not expecting MY reaction which is why he kept raising the bar. Saying nastier and nastier things...to get me mad too. Which it did a couple of times and then I calmed back down.

I really don't know if I even want the M to survive. I'm just really fed up. This weekend was the last straw for me. I certainly can't respect him now..and what is left without that?

Spent last night at the emergency room with DDs and WH after WH took them skating. DD12 fell and got a concussion. Will update more tomorrow.

((((fox))))

When it rains....

Thinking of you and your girls; let us know what you can whenever you can, but first, maybe some selfcare is in order right now. YOU are probably just flat out exhausted at this point.

Oh my goodness!!! I hope she's okay!

The fun just never stops around here! DD12 is fine, sore but fine.

WH picked DDs up at 3, he did not come in as I had requested in my email last week. He called DD13s cell phone and told them that he was there. They went out to him and they all left.

My sister was at my house and we left immediately after WH & DDs He saw us leave right behind him, which is what I wanted. I wanted him to know I wasn't sitting around at home waiting for his return. I had told DDs that I wouldn't be home and to call me on my cell phone if they needed anything.

Normally, when WH has DDs, I don't call them or text them (unless it is overnights, then I call them in morning and at night). I don't know why I felt the need this time but shortly after 5, I text messaged both DDs...just a short "I love you". Right after, she received the TM, DD12 called me crying. She had fallen and smacked her head really hard on the ice about 10 minutes earlier. Must be mother's intuition <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She was crying really hard...I couldn't really understand her and didn't know how bad it was. I told her I wished I was there to give her a big hug...then I told her to go give her dad a big hug and cry on his shoulder. It seemed like everything was under control and she had mostly stopped crying.

I called her back to check on her shortly after 6. WH had taken them out to dinner but DD12 wasn't eating because her head hurt and she felt naseous.

WH was supposed to have them until 8 but he called and said he was on his way to drop them off and explained a little bit of what happened and what he did....ice pack, Tylenol, etc. I wasn't at home and they got there before I did. I pulled up just a couple of minutes after.

It was dark outside, so I walked into the house with DDs and checked DD12 head. OUCH! It had a really big lump right above her eye and was already turning purple. She was still naseous, really tired, and her head hurt pretty bad. WH did not come in and I did not speak to him as I passed his truck. (as per my email request last week) DD12 was walking/talking ok and I couldn't see how bad her head was until we got into the house.

WH had driven off but called and asked what I thought. I told him I better take her to the emergency room....it made a lump pretty fast and her feeling sick and being so tired worried me. I've had concussions before....and my mom had one where she was unconcious for 2 days, she was fine at first and then a couple of hours later lost conciousness.

WH asked that I call him when we got back. I told him I would do that...but he was welcome to come with us...then I corrected myself...not with us, but he could meet us there. He said he would meet us there. (surprised me... DD13 has been to the er numerous times because of lung problems and he never came with us....would hardly visit when she stayed overnight, saying "I hate hospitals, you know that"...like the rest of us LOVE them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />)

Then as we were leaving, he pulled up beside me as we were pulling out of the driveway and asked if DD13 wanted to ride with him. As she was getting into his truck, he asked me what you're supposed to do when that happens. I told him he did all the right things, ice, Tylenol, etc. But HE should have called me as soon as he saw how big the lump was and I could have come there and WE could have decided to go to the ER or not. I said it nicely...but made my point.

We get to the ER and DD12 is checked by the first nurse and we are sent to sign her in....parent info, etc. Pretty much everything had to be updated since she had not been to the hospital since she was born. DDs stayed in waiting room and WH stayed with me. Being a mother/wife, all the information is just waiting at the top of my head to be asked. Social security numbers, addresses (his & mine), phone numbers, work numbers, etc. I wonder what WH thought when I gave her his new address without even pausing to think. She then asked if Dad was married...I said "yes". Cause he is...to me...for now. I'm not sure if she understoodd that Dad was standing right with me...maybe she thought because we had different addresses, that maybe this was my new husband or someething..I dunno. Anway, she didn't ask him anything....all the info came from me. Pretty typical...that's how things always happen with us. I know all the information and he just comes along to sign his name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

When WH and I went to the waiting room with DDs. DD13 made a comment about how nice the nurse was...WH told her they had to be nice or Mom would take care of them. He then told them the story of when DD12 was born and how I yelled at one of the nurses (she deserved it!). He told it as a funny story and gave me a teasing look. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What's up with him? Is he DONE, as he told me last Saturday night? And if so, why is he reminiscing so much? He told a few funny stories from the past.

Finally, we were taken back to one of the exam rooms, dr came in and asked some questions (which WH answered since he was there), they ran a CT scan. Then we had to sit and wait for results...more teasing and reminiscing among the 4 of us. The gave us things to watch for and then released DD12.

As we were leaving, WH gave both DDs a big hug and then turned to me, and said, "Sorry, BS". He didn't look directly at me...kind of past and then turned away. I said "you're alright, accidents happen. Bye"

He called DD12 the next morning to check on her...I had taken a picture of her head with my cell phone and then sent it to her phone.....she then sent it to him. She's pretty proud of it now. Darn kids, they love the battle scars.

He talked to both DDs on Sunday and then again this morning. When I got to work, he emailed me to ask how DD12 was feeling. He already knows.....he talked to her! I sent him back a quick note saying she is fine...still sore but looking forward to going to school to show it off.

Then there was some back and forth about what afternoon he wants this week to take them swimming. Teasingly, I told him not to drown them. He took it well and joked about it. In the last email, he said he will call me this afternoon to tell me what day Open Swim is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I don't want a call....I need some distance after last weekends episode. He's still acting like nothing ever happened and we are just continuing on.....

Any suggestions on what to do next, if anything. Take his call, or ask him to email me the times? My thought is I should ask him to email...otherwise he is not respecting my request of last week. Then when I go to Plan B he will test it because he won't believe I'll stick to it.

Any thoughts on this weekends events and what to do from here?

Thank you all for your support.

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone?

I'm considering going to Plan B this weekend. The dust seems to have settled from his tantrum last weekend and I think he is in a better place to accept the true intent of the letter.

So happy to hear your DD is okay. I'm no expert, but it would seem now is as good a time as any. Make sure he realizes this is to protect your feelings. That exposure to him sets you back in your thinking. He's moving on (supposedly) you need to be able to also.

fox,

Sorry to hear the latest sitch, but glad to hear she is ok. Sounds like the accident was handled well by all concerned, your DD's, your WH and yourself, nice job!

I've just recently read your thread and really admire your inner strength and commitment. As well as your honesty about your feelings, negative or positive. I think you are doing a great job and just remember, it takes more than one person to save the marriage.

I think when you are losing your respect and love for the WH, it is time for Plan B. I can share that I did an "unofficial Plan A" for about 2 mo. before my FWH last A until D-day #2. Way too long, my son's lost respect for me and I lost respect for myself. So, there is a line, it is hard to know where it is though....

I will send prayers your way....

Fox,

If you feel like the dust has really settled, and you are ready for the darkness of no contact with WH, AND you have legalities settled, then this may be a good time. Prior to the INCIDENT, you seemed ready...

Remember, as long as you are in Plan A, do it well...then hit him with Plan B. It's like a wall that they hit, and they either know the magic words or turn around and walk away.

Draft a letter and post it here, so that others can help you. I'm really no good at the PBL, but others are...

"Your men love you, and if this was not enough, you bend when you should tilt": "Both of us trying to hide who we are, both of us unsuccessful at doing it" Had I known nothing but this, it would be enough" "This is truely knightly"
Arise Fosnhound1!
For you are truely a "Knight" in every sense of the word!!!!