I agree, you nailed it with your last paragraph! I wish his lawyer would quit dragging his feet. You guys need a visitation agreement set up thru the courts so there is no more of this back and forth.

I'd be wary of email communication, he could attempt to use it against you in court to make it look like weren't letting him have time with the girls. If you have made prior agreements and he tries to change them, copy him on the prior agreement if possible whne responding. It will show he's trying to manipulate prior plans to HIS advantage.

Hang in there hun, you will get thru this!!

Hey Foxy,

I had to 'nail down' a visitation schedule with my WH for the last half of 2006-2007. It sucked, but I did it. He made it so that he had DS on all of the Holidays and events that WE (the family)really enjoyed together. I balked at some, but gave over some too. I realized that this was not about me, however WH wanted to make it about US, that this was about my son.

If the schedule meant that DS would be spending more time with his father, then that also meant that my DS would be happy. A side benefit is that WE both agreed that NO OP would be in his life, not until we could both agree. I knew that he would stick to it, as long as his R was new, because what kind of fun could WH have with OW with my DS demanding most of his time. Truthfully, I was hurt by all of the time he wanted to 'take' from me with DS, but I wasn't about to let my personal feelings hurt my DS chances of being with his daddy.

That being said, I would have fought tooth and nail to keep my DS away from a live-in OW--MOST DEFINITELY! You now do realize, no matter what, you are the better person, REALLY. Your children know that. Keep stressing them that you will be there for them, and that their happiness and stability is most important to you.

You sound strong. There will be days that you are not, but you are sounding more and more convinced that Plan B is good for you, and that is really important.


No one has won ANYTHING in this mess; EVERYONE has losses. You will, eventually, win yourself back, and that is most precious. Keep up the good work! LOVE to you on this day of giving...

I'm pretty careful with the emails. I read them over and over again and refine them so they come across the best way that I can. When I first answer them, I'm irritated and say things that won't help the situation...then I read it and take those things out. It takes a few times to get all the "extra" stuff back out! I'm fully expecting him to use anything against me in court that he can. Although I disagreed with a couple of his requests, I also offered others......stating CLEARLY that I was not agreeing to contact with OW. I restated what our original agreement was (which did not include weekends) when I sent the email back to him via my mother. I also CC'd my lawyer.

WH had it set up a schedule that works for him all the way through the end of school. I declined to commit to anything past April 1 and on each line from April-June stated "I am not willing to plan this far out without conferring with my lawyer"

He has not responded as of yet about the weekends I did offer him in place of ones he requested that I declined because I already have plans with DDs.

I am feeling strong today, too. Yes, I will get through this....thank you all for helping!

Great job, Fox...

I did the same thing with my emails. I would initially have something derisive or a cunning stab at him. Then, I would reread and edit those things out. Sometimes I wouldn't even really know what I wrote until after the first draft. I would be surprised by some of the things I said and then have to edit it.

The scheduling is a work in progress; it's never static, so you are doing well by stating that you would prefer to only do a couple of months at a time. You never know what may come up in yours or DD's lives. I do, however, always suggest 'regular' schedule for visitation. Like every other weekend and one night (a couple of hours) during the week. However, every couple is different...

I do see this, SL. It's just so hard to "give them up" to him, especially with his poor choices. But I do recognize that DDs love him and he loves them. It is important for them to spend time with their dad. They are doing better now that they see him more. A couple of months ago, he wasn't asking to see them at all...and I know they felt abandoned by that. Now he is calling them often and spending time with them. They feel important to him again and that is good.

Also, the more time they spend with him and he has to bring them back HOME...the more reality will hit him.

FYI - DD13 has a test today. I asked her if she was going to call WH so he can help. (I even said it nicely). She looked at me like I was nuts and said "um, no" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I went over the material with her last night and gave her some pointers on different ways to memorize things. And tricks on how to recall what you've learned. She struggles alot with her short term memory. She studies hard but has trouble recalling what she's reviewed. This has been a struggle for her for a long time.

There is actually a little bit of relief that the meeting has happened. I can stop dreading it so much and putting all my energy into fighting that first meeting. It's done and now I'll move on to the next battle. Not that I will stop resisting continued contact, that is still on the agenda.

I really really hope that DDs will recognize one day that I tried to do what was best for them in this situation and that this isn't something I chose. I'm certain I've made mistakes, but always with their best interest at heart.



Psst.....don't tell anyone, but sometimes I talk tough. Try to convince myself, hoping that eventually if I say it enough that my feelings will follow and I will truly believe. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I'm getting there. Doing my best to trust the process.

Talking tough is good practice for feeling tough, keep it up. It's the same thing as smiling when you least feel happy.

About your DD, and her short term memory. I always had problems with exams, unless it was a subject that I thoroughly enjoyed, right through college. It is rough, but doable. I would have to go back and read the same paragraph over and over sometimes. I thought I may have had ADD, but that turns out not to be true. For me, it's just a memory problem.

My BIL had dyslexia, and had many problems with studying. He got through nursing school, and is doing quite well.

Memorization techniques are great. I used a lot of acronyms, as well as associations.

Self-talk is good stuff, especially when it's spot on like what you said. The more you say it and think it, the more you will believe it and act it. It's going to be a roller coaster, so you need every advantage you can get.

Kids know. My DS7, who has been loathe to talk about any of this, said in casual conversation with my mother the other day that his parents are divorced. My mom gently corrected him that no, we are not divorced, rather separated. They talked a little bit about the difference, and my mom told him that WW had filed the paperwork for divorce (but she doesn't seem to have done anything since). DS7 then said So there are three things that could happen: it could go on like this, they could get divorced, or they could get back together. My mom said yes. DS7 said Well, Dad has a plan, and this isn't what he wants, so maybe they'll get back together. And then he didn't want to talk about it anymore. I love him so much. Kids know.

Oh, yes, kids know. My ONLY 4 year old son asks me daily now if daddy is coming home. He knows the situation. He has grown accustomed to his father leaving, so he asks everyday, maybe so he knows how to go about his day. My kid is HIGHLY in tune with his emotions. He comes from a place of emotions.

I'm hoping you will all be proud of me! I think I did well last night when WH tried to contact me. Here's what happened:

My sister asked if she could pick DDs up after school to do something with them and then have dinner. I had been invited to dinner with friends so this worked out well.

After my sister picked up DDs from school, they brought by a beautiful peach rose for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Very sweet. Then sister was taking them to dinner. I went out for dinner with friends and had a really good time.

On my way to my sister's house to pick up DDs, my cell phone rang. I checked it and it was WH. I didn't answer. It quit ringing and he called again, I didn't answer. (I no longer see his name on my cell when he calls. It shows L C S POS LL (Lying Cheating Sneaking POS Low Life). It quits ringing, and he calls again...this time it is showing unavailable <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. He called 4 times before I got to my sister's to pick DDs up. He called again while I was standing in the house....then I just shut my cell phone off. I was with DDs and knew there would not be an emergency with them.

This morning I turned my cell phone back on, he has left two messages and had called at least 8 times...it doesn't record missed calls when the cell phone is off. According to my sister, WH had called DDs every 1/2 hour small talked and asked them where I was, what I was doing, etc, and kept checking to see if I had picked them up yet.

Then he called DD13 after I had picked them up. He obviously asked if they were with me. Then he asked what I got them for v-day..and just chit chatted in general. DD13 seemed pretty depressed last night. My sister said she barely ate dinner and didn't want to do anything but sit and watch TV. His calling them is just so excessive, I don't know what to do about it.

Then my mother got an email from WH this morning saying he wanted to know why I didn't ask him to have DDs when I was out...this is supposedly what he left as a voicemail last night. He also sent a slew of questions to her yesterday that I had her respond to with "BS has no comment". He also tells her he feels I am shutting him out of DDs lives.

This is what she sent today in response to his demand for answer to his questions:



What do ya think?

I like the response, but I'm no pro... I think your mom is going to have to repeatedly remind him of it. You two might want to put together a generic paragraph that she can just keep cutting and pasting.

And here's your pat on the back, you deserve it.

I am saddened about your DD though... I wish he'd pull his head out of his [censored] and have some REAL concern for her well being. He's acting like he's in high school for God sake. He's a parent, act like it!!

IMO, he likes to control you and will start to freak more and more as he loses his grip.

Much better

I would be nice if you found a way in the future to not even discover what he wanted at all. If the questions or reason for his call(s) is irrelevant then you shouldn't even be privy to the fact he tried to call you.

Then YOU get even MORE peace. His rantings and ravings and trying to get you out of Plan B don't cause any drama in your life.

He shouldn't be able to call the DD's that much either. Might have to manage their cell phone(s) too.

Mr. Wondering

PS - Love Love Love the "LCS POS LL"... I LMAO at that!!!!

You go girl!!

OMG--I love the incoming identifier--LCS POS LL--that is [email]d@mned[/email] funny! Good for you. I agree with Mr.W though, it would be even better for you if you do not hear anything at all that is irrelevant or does not directly concern the transition of kids to each parent!

You deserve a great big HUG and huge Pat on the back. What you did last night is very difficult for a BS in Plan B. Keep it up, the darker you are the harder it is for WS to put any of the problems caused BY him on YOU...

And my ringback tone is "Blaze of Glory" by Bon Jovi... so he had to listen to that every time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I new when he would be calling I'd change it to Brooks & Dun "That's What She Gets for Loving Me". H always said that song reminded him of me. Kind of ironic now...especially the first line.

That's What She Gets For Loving Me
(Ronnie Dunn/Terry McBride)

She said what she wants is a man to be faithful
A true heart somebody willin’ and able
To stay by her side through thick and thin
A tender touch every now and then

She’s not hung up on fairy tales
Or some dream at the bottom of a wishin’ well
Fancy cars or diamond rings
What she wants most are the little things

That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets for loving me

At times I lay awake at night
Stare at her laying by my side
Knowin’ there in her heart as she sleeps
She can forever count on me

That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets for loving me

Whatever turns her on
I’m here to do it
Till the day they write my name in stone
I’ll live to prove it

That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets for loving me

That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets
That’s what she gets for loving me

Sounds like a great job, Fox. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for all the pats, everyone. (and Mr. W, you are hard to please <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

The latest....WH had DDs after school yesterday (our agreed upon day) and as agreed I picked them up early so he could go to a concert. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> DD13 has been really quiet and withdrawn the last two days.

I talked to her a little bit this morning and she said she just wasn't feeling good. I felt it was more than that and told her she could talk to me if she needed to.

She waited a couple of minutes and then told me they saw OW again last night. WH had a surprise for them and took them to WH/OW house to show them. It ended up being something for their rooms at his house. OW said hi and kept working at the computer. Said bye when they left and that was it.

I can't really tell if it was something that bothered her or if she really isn't feeling well.

Anyhow, without knowing this, I took DDs out for dinner and a place to play a bunch of games and we had a pretty good time. Although DD13 seemed withdrawn, just told me she was tired. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'll just continue to watch and comfort her, I guess. I don't have any control over anything else.

How ironic, I "heard" you were bad at spelling...or was that typing???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry if I sounded snippy. I was a work and post a little more direct as I get interrupted often.

Besides, implementing Plan B is not supposed to be a long drawn out process. You are either in it or not. Being in Plan B is where the processing occurs.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- my posts are littered with mispellings and typing error. I am only kiddin'

What're you talkin' bout? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hear you loud and clear about Plan B, thank you for the pushes. I prefer to have it told to me like it is, no sunshine being blown where it shouldn't be.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> WH called me at the office this morning.

After I gave my welcoming spiel:
WH: Hey
BS: Is this an emergency?
WH: (speaking very quickly to get it out) Kinda, do you know what the symptoms of salmonella are? You need to watch DD13. She ate peanut butter at my mom's yesterday and now there is a recall for the peanut butter, something about a salmonella outbreak. I knew you would know what the symptoms are and what to do about it. My mom checked the peanut butter jar and it does have the numbers they were showing on tv that could be contaminated. So I wanted to tell you to watch her.
BS: I'll watch her. Thanks for letting me know. Bye
And I hung up.

I'm sure I should have done better. It was NOT an emergency and I let him talk.

Any suggestions? Thoughts?

Maybe this is why DD13 isn't feeling well.....except she was withdrawn and quiet on Tuesday also.

also....when I took DDs out last night, all of us shut our cell phones off. So it could be just US. WH was busy at the concert anyway. But even after we got home I had them shut the phones off at 9pm. WH has a habit of calling them right before they go to bed at 9:30.