DDs don't seem to mind overnights. I think it is because they will sacrifice their own thoughts and feelings to have ANY attention from their dad.

If I allow it, I'm afraid I'm setting the precedence that it's ok for DDs to stay overnight, and the judge isn't going to change it or he won't take it into consideration for custody reasons because it appears I agree with it.

I DO NOT agree, I just want what is best for DDs. Time with their dad who will take them into situations that are against their moral upbringing or no time with their dad at all.

When they see him in the evenings after school now, he takes them to his house and they see MOW and WH as a couple, how is spending the night different? I'd like to put a stop to all of it until it is mandated by the court, but I'm afraid that will make it look to the judge like I am keeping DDs away from WH. AARG!

I wish WH wasn't such an A$$ and would take his DDs into consideration! Or ANY of us for that matter!

sl, if I compromise and allow an overnight during the weekend why wouldn't I allow them during the week of spring break? I'm not sure I see the difference, overnight is overnight no matter when it is. If it's inappropriate for one, it is inappropriate for all. I think I understand what you are saying, just wondering how to apply it and not have it look to a judge that I'm wishy washy on the subject.

If I say DDs have to be back each evening during those first three days of spring break, how do I enforce it? I think he will just keep them because he doesn't see why staying at his house is a problem. It's just me being unreasonable.

I feel like I need to compromise for fairness sake...I'm just having trouble figuring out what is fair but also RIGHT for DDs. Short-term and long-term.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Did he sign off on the original plan? If so, I'd use that as my out if I were you. Just say you would prefer to leave the plan as is until going to court. Then, you don't look wishy-washy.

There is no formal agreement. Neither of us has signed off on anything. He sent me (via my lawyer) his parenting plan that we were discussing in December, until he got mad, did it himself and turned into his lawyer. I modified what he sent and returned it to him (via his lawyer)

Nothing has been signed at all. There is no set schedule other than I agreed to let WH have DDs after school until 7:30 on Mon and Thurs. every week. This was not in writing either.

There have been some weekends that he asked for and I agreed. This was prior to the weekend he had DDs spend overnight at his house with MOW there. They have had one weekend after that but they went out of town with WH, MOW was not there.

If you have no formal agreement, then I would say to keep things status quo. No overnights until you are told that you have to do it, especially if you think that DD's really DO NOT want to stay.

What I was saying about Easter weekend is that *IF* you do allow overnights starting now, have the girls stay from Friday afternoon until Sunday NOON, then come home for the remainder of Spring break with an occasional day out with dad or something like that. Now, if you stick to status quo, I would allow him Easter day, then you get Easter afternoon and evening.

In my case, I am attempting to keep DS away from OW as long as I can, and that was what this weekend was about, so I'm all for keeping the girls away from that wreckage until ORDERED to allow it (which I think is a crock).

Also, the fact that WH supplies NO CS (which is NUTS) would keep me from sending kids for overnights. Has anyone told him he's a DEAD BEAT DAD? Geez...

Have you petitioned for FULL custody of the girls? Just wondering. In my LSA, I have shared legal custody and majority of physical custody, but was thinking of filing for FULL custody once a divorce filing is done by either me or my WH.

I have petitioned for primary custody and WH will have visitation. The courts change the names but it is the same as full custody.

I try to keep the no CS issue separate from the visitation. I try not to see it as paying to see his kids. Although, I've heard that MOW has said that he doesn't pay child support because I don't let him see DDs.

I've been tempted to tell him he's a DEADBEAT DAD, but since I am not having anything to do with him, I can't. The courts will tell him so.....and it will mean alot more than coming from me.



I think DDs DO want to stay. They'll take any time they can get. If they had a choice they would, of course, rather stay with WH without MOW, but they aren't given that choice.

I think they will be okay if I say no overnights but than let him spend time with them during the day.

I think I'll agree to him picking DDs up on Easter morning and then bring them back around 1. Then letting them go with him Mon all day til 5, Tuesday all day til 5 and Wednesday til noon. I just worry that he won't bring them back once he gets them on Monday.

I guess you'll just have to take a chance. And as far as visitation goes, you are letting him see DD's. You just have a desire to not have the girls subjected to MOW overnight. There is nothing wrong with that.

That's fine, let him wrack up a huge arrears bill. It'll just make life more "interesting" at infidelville.

Maybe if DDs know that I am not agreeing to any overnights and I am expecting them home each evening.......

It is a chance I guess I'll have to take. If he keeps them, DDs will know he did so against my wishes.

Your right FamilyCF, that arrears bill just keeps going. The state can take up to 1/2 his check every month. THAT is going to hurt. More he will try to blame on me, I'm sure.

We just need to get this finished, I'm hanging on by my fingernails trying to keep everything balanced until he has to start helping. I lose a little ground each time the D is put off.

I still wonder if somewhere in that POS WH my H may be hiding. As much as I want to finish and be done with WH, I still miss H....or who I thought H was.

Well, I'm praying for you that nothing impedes the next mediation/court dates.

I imagine you are grieving the loss of what was, I think that's totally natural. I imagine your old H is in there somewhere, pride probably wouldn't allow him to rear his head though. He'd have to admit he was wrong.

{{wild}}

Good Montana morning WildH,

Like you, I miss the person who was once my wife a lot. Wayzilla isn’t much of a replacement! In truth they are near opposites in every way. The characteristics I loved the best about W are the same ones that are profoundly loathsome about WayZ.

I am moving forward now as if W was lost at sea and is now presumed dead. Not much chance of her turning up and I need to continue to prepare for the rest of my life without her. I will keep the tiny fragment of hope I have left locked away in a small box in the top shelf of the closet. Everything I do now, every decision I make needs to be based on the complete belief that she is gone.

Keep your hope, but don’t let it have any weight in your decision process and plans. It’s you and your DD’s versus the world and I think I’ll put my money on you.

I like the lost at sea reference. It really does describe how I feel about my H. He's on the missing person's list without much hope of his case being solved.

Fox, It may be a good idea to explain to your kids why overnights have not been allowed. They seem old enough to 'get it'.

I haven't really chimed in on the kids and OP discussion because I haven't figured it out for myself, but I absolutely agree with what SL said about talking to your daughters.

Hi, everyone. Crazy busy at work this morning so I only checked in with MB first thing this morning and then had to get some stuff done at work.

You guys made me choke up this morning, such caring from people who don't even really know me. Things are close to the surface today and I'm easily moved to tears again.

It'll get better....I have that faith now.

I will talk to DDs this week about why overnights are not okay with me. I do think they will understand, but DD12 will be irritated. She's been a bit difficult in the last couple of weeks.

I've been debating on how to get the info about Easter/Spring Break to WH or even whether I need to. My mother was my intermediary but I don't think that is going to work. She can't stay out of it and wants to fight with WH. Not what I need right now.

I've decided to do nothing until WH tries to contact me about Easter. I've decided what I'll agree to and now he can make the effort if he wants to see DDs.

http://plantinghisseeds.com/articles/eagles.htm

I hope this link works...

FamilyCF,

Link worked. Thank you.......

I read posts on silent's thread a few minutes ago appreciating all the support and wishing more could be done for each other.

I would like to express my gratitude to all of you that have been here for me and given me the little nudges to keep going, sympthazing and empathizing with me. I wish I could express just how grateful I am that you all exist and are willing to provide support even while in the midst of your own lifes' turmoil. You are GREAT people. THANK YOU!

It helps me tremendously to know you are all out there.

Right back at you WildH! The Killer Bees are closer to me than what little family and few friends I have right now. And they all have a clue.

Let us know how the discussion with your daughters goes.

We're out here.

I plan on talking to DDs tonight. DD13 fully understands, we had a discussion night before last about Easter/Spring Break, etc and she completely "gets" it. DD12 I'm unsure of, I'll sit with her separately and go over it. I'll just have to look past the eye-rolling, "you are so retarded, Mom" looks and just get it done. She doesn't have to agree.

DD12 is going to be the one to try to play WH and I against each other. She was mouthy the other night and I took her cell phone away from her for another week (she just got it back 1 week ago after having lost it for a month). DD13 said DD12 was talking to WH about it and told him I had taken it again and she didn't know what she had done to deserve that. Supposedly when she asked me what she did I said "I don't know". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> WH probably fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Geez, like I just take things away for the joy of making her miserable. When she is miserable, she makes sure we are ALL miserable. Before knowing this little scenario, I had offered her an opportunity to earn it back by doing some chores. Then she tried to negotiate what chores she would do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

WH told her "I'll talk to your Mom about that tomorrow". I guess he's planning on attempting to talk to me. I already have it set up with one of my co-workers when WH calls, I can just holler for him to pick it up and he will tell WH I am not here....he can also just tell him I am not taking his calls unless it is an emergency.

DD13 talked to WH yesterday about Easter/Spring Break, told him I would not let them stay the night at his house but they could stay with MIL. He said that was fine. I have an inkling he'll say fine and then do what he wants once he has DDs. If so, it'll be the last visitation at all before the court date.

He told DD13 "I'll talk to your mother about that tomorrow also".

So....I guess I should expect a "talking to" today. I'm prepared (I think)......back me up, guys. NO CONTACT with WH until conditions of Plan B letter are met.

We and another good volleyball game last night. We won, again. Not by quite so large a margin but still won both games and played a third for fun, which the other team won. The energy level seemed really low last night...not sure why. I'm trying to think of something to get them pumped up a little. We won, but partly only because the other was just worse than we were. (That's sounds like a good coach, doesn't it) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

WH came again, stood off away from the rest of the parents. He stood by where I had left my coat and papers I needed to give to the team....I don't think he knew it. When the game was over I took the team over to my stuff and handed out the information...gave them all kudos, etc. WH took a step or two back but didn't move away from us.

After the rest of the team left, DD13 was asking WH questions about a shop assignment. I stood off to the side a little bit, waiting for them to finish so DDs and I could go. I can't even quite explain how it happened but I looked at him, and he glanced up and looked at me, and there was a moment. H was there in that man that stood before me, the man that I've missed for so long and thought was gone forever. He does still exist.

We've looked and met gazes before, but I didn't see H at those times. Those looks were from a stranger.

Anyway, it only lasted half a second and I glanced away and cheerfully told DDs it was time to go.

Even though I know now that H does still exist, I'm still determined to continue Plan B. No matter which personality H/WH is at the moment, he is still living with MOW and continues to make the choices he is making. He has the letter he knows what steps he would have to take. He has to make the first move.

The glance that the two of you shared is probably what is making this day a bit harder. I've seen that look too, from my H, but that is it. I haven't seen my H since the day that he left. My son is not into any activities outside the home, as of yet, so there is no reason for WH to be around at games and such.

It would be interesting to hear from former Plan B'ers who had young children, who had a good Plan B, and what it looked like. I think it's nearly impossible to not have some contact regarding children. I wonder how others have faired?

Wow, Fox. It's great that you saw your H, even if it was only for a split second. I'm really happy for you. And I'm happy how you responded to it, too--that it didn't totally mess you up.

You're right. Don't let that throw you off your plan B. Stay dark. Brace yourself for the contact, and don't let it happen. You know what to do. You are so strong.

Hi WildH,

Wow, a wayward husband, Plan B, divorce proceedings, and 12 and 13 year old daughters! There should be combat pay.

Do I ever remember the 12 year old eye-rolling, staring up to the side, chewing gum smacking, single toe tapping (we so waste their time with our evil need to pile misery on them) “Dad you are such a [censored]”, look. It often could end in the infamous elephant stomp up the stairs, bedroom door slam and famous last words, “This is soooooo unfair.” I do not envy you.

But, it sounds like you are still doing a great job. You know what to do; run silent, run deep.

I had a few of those exchanged looks with Wayzilla around Christmas and the first couple weeks of January. Just like you for a couple seconds I could really see W, then it would go away. It must be hard for them to come out like that and then just as quickly scurry back into their feces filled rat hole of lies and rewritten history.

I have coached competitive youth girls (primarily 12-14) for eight years in basketball and have learned that like Forrest Gump’s box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get when it comes to practice and game intensity. The kids were probably already getting into Spring Break mind set.

Stay strong. I wish I could help more. My situation is far less complicated without any minor children. I am in total admiration of all of you.