Thanks....it was a relief to see that H still existed but also another little heartbreak. If he's still there somewhere, why isn't he fighting to get out of this mess? Or can he just not find the way out?

Either way...I'm out til SHE's out. One or the other. H has to be strong enough or WH will just take over again.

Or maybe I didn't see anything at all...maybe I just wanted to.

I'm okay today. Still looking forward. It wasn't even a real trigger....it is what it is right now. He has to change it or I'm continuing on as if he doesn't exist.

chrisner,

I so enjoy hearing about your DD19. It also helps to know she behaved the same way my DD12 does. Your DD19 is proof that they do get over that and become wonderful young women, right? I have to remember that this is a phase with DD12....DD13 has a totally different attitude, much more easy going and eager to please. DD12 is me at that age....my mother wished her on me and now I've got to deal with it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's a pain sometimes, but I do know where she is coming from, even if I don't agree. OH! How many times have I had the eye rolling, past my shoulder staring, elephant stomping, door slamming, "that's so stupid" scene! It just about sends me over the edge when she stares past my shoulder and seems to be just barely putting up with hearing my voice. And than the snotty little "fine" when I'm done (sometimes BEFORE I'm done!) GRRR <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> She's lucky all I do is take her cell phone and give her chores!

But she can also be so cheerful and energetic. It's just has to be on her terms. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I get such enjoyment out of both of them. DD12 is just more of a challenge right now. She's a little too smart for her own good.

"And than the snotty little "fine" when I'm done (sometimes BEFORE I'm done!)" - WildH

Oh man, I forgot about that. Same thing exactly!

Yep, they do finally grow up. I have found myself a little heart panged recently when I see 2-5 year old girls at the stores and such. I miss DD at that age now and then. Probably all the reflection that I have had on a 25-year marriage that was almost all great. Again it must be hard for a wayward to constantly be swallowing their own lies to convince themselves that the marriage has been so bad for so long. It’s got to suck to be a wayward. I am much happier being a betrayed.

I've heard that, with girls, the first is eager to please, doens't buck authority too much, then the second is more boisterous, more headstrong, but I think it may only be with girls.

My brother is the eldest, followed by my sis and then me. My sis was the headstrong one. I was more subversive, I flew under my parents' radar, especially when my sis was busy kicking up dust.

My supervisor has two girls, one is 9 the other is 7, and their dynamic sounds just like your two, Fox...

Yes, I think it has to be worse to be a wayward, too. Afterall, the chose he//. They'll have a much harder and longer road in this, recovery of their marriages or not.

I've been getting those hear pangs when I see older (16-18) girls. Knowing mine are headed there and they will eventually leave me too.

Just got word from my sister that WH talked to my mother a few minutes ago for 15 minutes.



Help me out! How do I respond...no telling him to take a long walk off a short pier is not an option (so I'm told)

Sounds like you handled yourself wonderful last night! I know your H is in there somewhere too, but he's being prideful. And, I wouldn't be surprised by your DD playing you two against each other. She knows you two are at odds and she's gonna use it to her advantage all she can. Your WH needs to understand that and not play into her antics. You are wise though to stick to plan B. It's a petty thing to have to come out of the dark over.

I have a 13 yr old D, a 2 yr old S and a 6 month old S. My D can get testy, but all and all she's pretty good. I think it's because she's the oldest, she's pretty mature for her age. She's been like that all her life. I do get glimpses of that teenaged angst from time to time, I'm sure it will only get worse as she moves toward HS age. She mainly balks about helping out with her 2 yr old brother, who thinks she hung the moon and follows her around like a little shadow. She'll watch him until he gets on her nerves... he can get a bit crazy, he's full of toddler energy.

I think SL is on to something with the first girl being more calm than usually the second or third. I was the first and more of a people pleaser, my sister on the other hand demanded attention and was always trying to buck the system.

Didn't you already file your taxes and claimed DD's?

I don't know how to tell you to respond... it made me TENSE just reading it. I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this Wild!

The response I WANT to send but won't:

He// no, you can't have DDs from noon Saturday to noon Wednesday! "Fair" that you get them 1/2 of spring break and I get the other 1/2? And you haven't had them for any holidays? Boo friggin hoo. You chose to spend it with TRASH. And DDs do not like your scenario either. They don't think it is FAIR that they have to split their lives because you chose to step out of it. It isn't FAIR that I have to scrape by because DDs have a DEAD BEAT DAD, either! DD13 talked to you about what I was willing to do for Easter and Spring Break. We have discussed it and this is what DDS want to do. They do not want to spend all of Easter for you. Get a clue! They do not want to be taken from their mother on holidays!

DD12's phone: YOU CAN HAVE IT BACK AND CRAM IT UP YOUR [censored]! I will discipline any way I see fit and you WILL NOT tell me how to do it. If you want control of the phone (since you pay for it, supposedly) take it back and she can have it when she is at your house. I'm sure it will be good company for the 4 wheeler you gave her for Christmas and then took back to keep at your house. She's ridden that all it all of what... twice since Christmas?

And it is not the only way you can get a hold of her. People spoke before cell phones. you just won't have tabs on what WE are doing every moment of the day. Tough chit.

The vet: So, you are going to kill your horse without even finding out what is wrong with her. Must be nice just to kill your problems instead of dealing with them. Good thing there are laws about murder...or DDs and I would be in trouble. I will not haul, I will not schedule an appointment, I WILL NOT be a party to destroying her without any attempt to take care of her. She is YOUR responsibility...take care of at least that. In case you have forgotten, there is a restraing order (via YOUR attorney) preventing either of us from destoying any property. Nic is property...you can't destroy her without my agreement. I won't agree unless her quality of life is at stake. You don't know that it is. Find out.

Taxes: Good luck! I've filed and claimed both DDs. You're screwed! you should have taken some of that money you aren't using for child support and paid some taxes. Or been smart enough to change your deductions!



Okay...I think I'm a little triggered. I'll take a few deep breath and post what my REAL response will be. He will not break me.

Starting at the bottom:

If you have already filed (I hope you have) and claimed the girls, "to bad, so sad."

I know nothing of horses, you are on your own.

Typical WS crap ploy to grate on you and look good to DD12. Cell phones for teenagers are a luxury not a necessity. We sure managed without them when we were 12. I just bet that WH and DD12 could still use land lines or messages through DD13 just fine. Don't let him undermine your authority with DD12.

And the biggie. If this is your line in the sand and you feel this is a battle you must win in a war of many battles, stick to your guns. Tell him NO and tell him WHY. Keep it calm, cool and to the best MB traditions. Make sure DD's totally understand your feelings.

I've edited my rant...needed to finish a few thoughts.

chrisner, yup, I've filed and claimed both DDs.

Rant away WildH. That's why we are here.

Dear WH,

I filed my taxes in January and claimed both girls, since I am supporting them by myself and you are not contributing financially to the household. This is a decision that you made by moving away from the family, and now your taxes are your issue.

What you do with your horse is none of my concern. No need to talk to me about this.

If DD12 uses the cell phone inappropriately, she loses that privilege and I would appreciate if you co-parent and enforce to DD12 that she has to earn not, rather than allowing her to pit us against each other. When she can not use the cell phone, she is free to use the land line to contact you and you to contact her. However, to re-iterate my letter, *I* will not be in touch with you over the land line. DD12 is also free to use the internet to email and the United States Postal Service to write--so she is able to contact you and you her when she is restricted from using the cell phone. If you feel it is not "fair" for you to pay for a phone she can't use, you can either encourage her to behave and earn the privilege or you can stop paying for it, as you wish.

Finally, DD's have already told you when they want to be with you for easter and spring break. I am not interesting in negotiating for what YOU want. I intend to go with what THEY wish to do because I am putting what THEY want ahead of what I want.

There--send THAT to your intermediary! Neener neener neener! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


~~CJ

I like it, FaithfulWifeCJ. I'm having a hard time getting the words down without getting into the emotions of it all. I do want to explain why there will be no more overnights until court. I think he needs to hear it. But I'll combine it with alot of what you said. I especially like the part about the cell phone and co-parenting. Good stuff, too, in case he takes it to the judge.

Thank you!

Pretty [email]d@mn[/email] good letter FW! I like it!

I forgot about the 4 wheeler! He's not being very financially smart these days, is he?? Tattoos and 4 wheelers and cell phones for his DD's yet his car is broke down and he's not paying any CS. Brilliant...

Remember, he uses his little head to do all his thinking right now.

aaaaah...mmmm.....after many deep yoga breaths and a few "be the better person" chants, here is my partial response (I'll cover the horse and Easter/Spring break in a while):

There will be no more overnights at WH's house while his affair partner is there until a court forces me to allow it. It is not appropriate to live with a married woman while he is married himself, I do not want DDs to think it is. I have spoken with both of them and they are uncomfortable being at his house with her there and seeing the behavior between WH and her. How they see him behaving is how they will think it is okay to behave themselves when they have boyfriends. I want them to be respectful, well-behaved, non-promiscous young women. This is how WH and I were raising them together, prior to his affair. I am holding to that commitment. I believe it is emotionally harmful to them to be forced to be present for this behavior. I will not agree to it.

I filed my taxes in January and claimed both DDs, since I am supporting them by myself and he is not contributing financially to the household. This is a decision that he made when he left his family, and now his taxes are his issue.

If DD12 misbehaves, she loses privileges. I would appreciate if he would co-parent and enforce to DD12 that she has to earn privileges, rather than allowing her to pit us against each other. When she can not use the cell phone, she is free to use the land line to contact him and him to contact her. To re-iterate, I will not be in touch with him over the land line unless it is an emergency or his married girlfriend is out of his life. DD12 is also free to use the United States Postal Service to write - so she is able to contact him and he her when she is restricted from using the cell phone. If he feels it is not "fair" for him to pay for a phone she can't use, he can either encourage DD12 to behave and earn the privilege or he can stop paying for it, his choice.


Okay, what do you all think? Part of me thinks it is too much. I don't have to explain a darn thing to him. But I do think it will be helpful to explain more in case it does get to a judge.

Just received email directly from WH....he believes they are immediately deleted so I will not be responding to that email...only through my mother. Here is what he sent:


Where is that projectile vomiting emoticon when you need it?

Cell phones for children = luxury. I like CJ's post.

AS for the taxes, only state that you claimed the girls already, no emotions, nothing else, just state that fact.

The horse, hmmmm, if she is both your property ,then you MUST be able to sign off on her death warrant. If you feel strongly, then have the vet check her out at your expense. If not, then just tell WH that she is his horse, and you need not discuss her fate and you will not be helping with her transport. No more than necessary. Leave the emotions at the door.

Visitation: describe what WILL take place over spring break. Just logistics, no DD's want this and DD's want that. Just logistics, the when, the where, the how, etc. State this as fact, and be done with it.

I'm so sorry that this is all coming down on you; it was the perfect opportunity for your WH to overwhelm you, and he did. What a schmo! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If I had more time, I would be sarcastic and witty, but I'm in the midst of a protein purification and have to get back to it.

Fox -

Please remember in this case less is more.
Just answer the questions with a brief explanation and not so much emotion.

He is working you.

MB
-------------------
Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them.

Chrisner, sdguy, and silent....do you still have the Batmobile and Wonder Woman outfit at the ready?

I'm gonna need you to hold me back!

aha....thank you for pointing that out. You're right. He tried, and I let him.

Let me revise...I have a tendency to want to tell him like it is cause I'm RIGHT. Right?