I have got to find myself a good Bugs Bunny pic, so when I say "What a Maroon!" I can attach Bugs... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Take your time Fox, I know how difficult it is making these decisions.

How clean do your hands have to be to grope a baboon?


Pony Tail Thing gives me RAGE! Forced physical respect to a ugly red butted baboon!! Sorry WildH my blood pressure rose up on that one.

Me too Chrisner... royally pi$$ed me off.

It royally pi$$ed me off, too. I haven't said much about it because every time I think of it, I want to go grab WH by the hair and yank him around a little bit.

I just don't know what I can do about it, other than make sure it is known by lawyers, judge, etc. I've left messages with my lawyer about a few things and was going to bring it up when I spoke with him. But I haven't yet.

I'd like to confront him about it, but being in Plan B, what is the best way to handle it. I'd like to just send an email stating that it better not happen again. But he won't give a rip what I say. He thinks he is teaching her manners.

We were busy doing karoake (just DDs and I) last night and they forgot to call him. He didn't call them either. He usually calls in the morning, but he didn't call them this morning either.

Then I got to work and had an email from him:



He sent it at 8:02 this morning. I'm going to wait a while before I respond. I intend to say: "evenings or weekends. Everything I am willing to let you take at this time will be in the main part of the garage."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> RFLMAO! How true is that!

Don't. It's the old, Don't wrestle with a pig. You both get muddy and the pig likes it.


My bet is they did not forget to call him. They wanted to see if he cared enough to call them.

Don't confront, just document it. Maybe have DD write a statement of what happened. Give it to your attorney and see if it can be used at all. He'll defend his reasoning.

I know there is no point in getting into the ponytail thing with him. My mamma bear instinct comes out and I just want to RIP HIM UP for treating DD13 that way. It's really tough not to come to her defense.

I think this is what my lawyer was talking about when he said we needed to give it a chance to fail. DD13 is withdrawing from him more and more because of incidents like this.

Last night was our last game for volleyball. We won one game and lost the other two. Bummer....but I guess ya gotta lose sometime. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When the game got over (not WH night), I told DDs to go over and say "hi" to dad. I lagged back and DD13 did the same. A little ahead of me but not much. He told her "good game, etc". She barely anwered, just a quiet "thanks". I walked past and made my way upstairs, DD13 was right with me and we joked back and forth about the game, school, etc. DD12 followed with WH a short distance behind. They weren't saying anything.

When we got outside, DD13 headed quickly for my truck. I slowed up to wait for DD12 who had walked a little ways a head of WH. WH called her back, gave her a hug, said, "good game", and I love you to her, then left. He didn't attempt to call DD13 back.

DD12 and I walked to the truck together. Laughing, teasing, talking, etc.

Sad, sad sitch for DDs.

DD13 told me last night that RBB/WH are looking online for houses to buy. On the realtor's site that H and I were using right before the A. What a joke, if WH thinks he is broke now, wait til he is paying CS. And she is still married..(and he is too right now). Who in their right mind would loan to them? What a joke. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I thought if I heard something like that, it would hurt. But it didn't. It just reinforces how stupid they are.



I've wondered this, too, chrisner. Are they testing him to see if he will call? What a let down when he doesn't.

DD12 does actually forget sometimes and then gets really upset if I say it is too late (after 9:30pm)when she does remember. He gets on them when they don't call him and it really worries her. I wouldn't really care that she calls him late, but he is keeping track of when they are up and I believe is intending to use it against me. He made a comment in one of our "discussion" a couple of months ago that DDs are up all hours of the night. Which is a crock.

I'm pretty strict about bedtime because DD12 is such a bear when she is tired. I certainly don't want to have to deal with that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For a while he was calling DDs on their cell phones if they didn't call him. They are supposed to shut their phones off at 9pm but sometimes forget. He would call and actually wake DD13 up and talk with her then. That was his "proof" that they were up all hours of the night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

We said the same thing on the thread last week.

In the end the girls will know who their surviving parent is.

You are doing great WildH!

Thanks, chrisner. I would just rather DDs not have to go through it at all. I feel like I threw them to the wolves just to make sure the wolves were actually going to try to eat them.

I already know it's a bad situation, why do I have to prove it?

If it was a drug situation, would I have to allow DDs to use drugs, go through rehab, or die, etc just to PROVE to everyone that it is bad?

Just venting.... thanks for the ears (eyes).

I agree with you wild... it sucks. There should be more protection for children in these situations, but this is one area they stay away from usually. I have heard of some people managing to get a court order stating no overnights with a person in the house that is not their parents spouse. (Not sure if I worded that correctly... you get my drift.)

Fox, I would set forth to make a schedule for your WH to follow. HE must call THEM by such a time every day if he would like to speak to the kids. Their R with HIM is not THEIR responsibility, he is the parent. They need him, they need his approval and love and HIS INITIATIVE. He is failing them.

If he cannot do this, then he truly is a deadbeat. Unfortunately, you cannot shelter them from him. My daddy never called, wrote, sent a card, nada, my whole life. I KNOW the blame for this falls squarely with him, and I thank god that I know this, for I would be so much more F'd up if I thought my mother or I had any fault in that.

You set the tone, mom, take what control you do have. Give WH back those dingdang cell phones and YOU go get a family plan that YOU control. Screw all this I bought them those phones sh!te. I know it costs money, but it's better than this crap.

Oh, I'm so angry for you. I just wanna string him up by his cajones. ARGHHHH!

Wish I knew the answer, Fox. Wondering what developmental damage is being done to my little ones makes me crazy. Everyone reminds me that kids are resilient, but they shouldn't have to be. Life is hard enough.

Try to engage with WH as little as possible. I know it's hard. I'm currently fighting off urges to confront (about exposure of kids to OM while either of them are still married) and reach out (remind her that the door is still open, that we can rebuild, etc.). I have reasons why these might be good ideas, but I believe that it is better to stay dark in Plan B. Still, I have to fight the urges constantly.

I agree that remaining dark is paramount to recovery. Like I have shown you, I DID protect my kid like a mama bear and went for the throat when challenged. I am the only sane one, so I felt I had to say something. For me and my WH and son, my standing up and bellowing as loudly as I could WORKED, but only for me. My WH seems a bit different, less foggy when I speak, maybe. He knows I won't back down when it comes to our son; he knows the damage I've dealt with my whole life and needed a large shove to be reminded.

No two WS's are the same. I just can't see allowing either parent to carry on this way. I would record anything that could be construed as abuse or even uncaring.

Oh, definitely record it. It was wrong. No question. I'm just not sure how to use it. Fox telling WH it's wrong almost certainly won't make a difference, because he's a Fogged-Out Zombie (FOZ). Based on what we've heard about him, I don't imagine that agree that it's wrong. Otherwise, why would he have done it? And he's so angry at Fox right now anything she says will be discounted.

Getting someone impartial to determine that it's wrong, especially if they have some power over the situation, is different. I encourage that.

Thanks for all the support, I really appreciate it.

WH just sent me another email: " BS,
Did you receive my e-mail this morning? I haven't heard anything back from you so I thought I'd check.

WH"


Me thinks he can wait... As usual, he thinks I'm going to jump everytime he speaks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Them days are over.

Good Thursday morning, everyone!

Thought I'd update you all with the latest WH thoughtless, manipulative attempt to guilt DD13:

WH called DD13 cell phone at 7:10am (they did have time to call him last night but did not)

WH: You didn't call me last night
DD13: Oh, yeah, sorry
WH: That's alright, I'm getting used to it.
DD13: (silence)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> She had talked to him shortly after dinner, do they need to call him every other hour?

Both DDs forgot their cell phones at home today. It'll be interesting to see if DDs ask to borrow his phone to call me after school when he picks them up.

Still waiting on a call back from my lawyer.......

I really wish he could see what he is doing to his relationship with DDs. He can't blame that stuff on me...he is making those comments to her. DD13 is really beginning to resent him.

I realized last night that the weeks before WH has DDs for the weekend, I only have them Tuesday and Wednesday evenings (they're home @ 8 on Mon/Thur, though). That's horrible! I had already agreed to him having them Mon and Thurs and then gave in on weekends. AARGH!

Fox, I still say to TELL you WH that the girls will be waiting for HIS call at THIS time everynight. If he doesn't call AT THAT TIME it's on him. Those girls should not HAVE to call him at all, and to guilt them is offensive behavior.

This is a good place to take a stand, through, AHEM (she clears her throat for affect), an intermediary, perhaps...

Ah, now on this topic I have some experience.


He can't. And will not be able to for a very long time.


He will. And will for a very long time.


She is. And will for a very long time. And it will get worse before it gets better.

Is it not amazing that after all the humiliation and pain they have inflict on us it is incumbent on us to help facilitate the blown up relationship they have with their kids. And we do that because we are good people and good parents.

WildH, there is only so much you can do. You can't control him. You can't make him see the light. He will have to do this all on his own and he will not even try until Babs is gone.