Just got a call back from my lawyer. He talked to WH lawyer and had to fight tooth and nail to get him to agree to ask WH for CS! WTF?!

My lawyer did a little bullying and WH lawyer is supposed to call WH and have him send me $500 ASAP. I'm not holding my breath.....

I cannot believe they calculated CS to be $473...not each kid, but combined! That isn't anything! That sucks (to use the language of DD12)

WH lawyer did the actual CS calculation and he figured it higher than my lawyer had. I think they add the retirement that I had to withdraw to my wages and it makes my wages closer to WH's so it reduces the amount of CS. That's just bogus.

My employer also "forgave" my debt to them and showed it as a bonus so I didn't have to repay. This then showed on my W2 as increased wages. Which it really wasn't, it was a loan from my employer to pay my attorney.

I imagine that means next year I will have to have CS recalculated to show what I REALLY make. What a pain.

I guess I better go after every minute detail that DDs do and make WH split it...outside of CS.

This all gets so confusing!

Well, in the state of MD they have a calculator that they use to figure child support.

Right now, DS's support is $759/mo. It will go down as he ages, of course. $473 seems low to me, but what the heck do I know...

I'm going to let the CS amount be what they've calculated for now. Anything is better than nothing.

When it comes down to the state of MT actually doing the calculations in June, I will make sure these points are raised and see what can be done about them.

SL, if I may ask, are your wages compared to your WH wages fairly close? According to this years calculations, our wages only differ by $6,000. Without all those added things to mine it is closer to $12,000.

You get that much for 1 child?! Wow...good for you. I was counting myself lucky if I got $650 for 2 children combined.

Why would yours go down as DS ages? Daycare? Mine are more expensive now than they were at that age!

The cost of living in MD is high, much less the cost of living in my county, so this number probably equates to where you are living, plud my DS is 4 years old. The CS will go down over time.

My wages were about $5000 more than my WH's when CS was calculated, so not much difference. Now, I think he makes just about the same amount. If his salary changes significantly (and I will be asking) i will have the number recalculated.

WH works in IT/WEB so he stands to take a larger salary jump than I, if he changes jobs. I will not be changing jobs unless my company goes belly up (which I doubt) OR I decide to move.

It just occurred to me how far I have come in the last few months. To be able to sit here and think about CS without just crying buckets of tears over the situation is a huge leap from where I used to be.

I still don't like it and I would have rather recovered my M but I will survive and be happy again. I'm getting closer every day, thanks to you all.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I remember the first day that I met with my lawyer almost two years ago. I called my WH that morning, crying, asking him if this was really what he wanted. He said yes, so I went to the attorney's office and started talking about what I should do. I was a mess, an utter heap of a mess.

Sometimes, I look back and I can't belive that was me. ME, the strong one, ME the outspoken one, ME who took absolutely no sh!te off of anyone. I was devastated. Thank god I do not feel that burden of pain anymore. It pushed me to the brink.

Nope, I still don't like it either, but I will continue to be silent and do what I can.

Fox, it sounds like you got a lot of information today. It's a lot to digest. When would CS payments be started? What about the mortgage and any shared loans; can you get alimony until the D? Just thinking about my sitch and what I have done with my lawyer.

CS will start whenever WH gets around to it. It's voluntary right now. My lawyer had to fight tooth and nail just to get WH lawyer to call WH and encourage him to pay. I really don't think WH will pay until a judge forces him to.

There is no mortgage, when we moved back from CA, we rented a house and were looking for a place to buy. Thankfully, didn't find one before the mess of the A began.

No to alimony and to joint loans. WH doesn't make enough to pay alimony and he doesn't care if our joint loan gets behind since it is for my truck/trailer. He considers them mine and that I should have to pay for them alone.

My lawyer and I will fight for the loan, though, once it get to court. I just need to have a very good explanation as to why I think WH should have to help pay when I am getting the benefit of the use of them. "because he helped get us into the debt, he should help get us out" apparently isn't good enough.

Thanks for the suggestions, they are definately welcome. Sometimes even if one doesn't fit my sitch, it gets me thinking about something else that I CAN use.

I think it would be just as effective as a lengthy message trying to show him, essentially, the error of his ways. Your WH seems particularly fogged, or at least considerably moreso than SL's. SL's WH recognizes that what he's doing is wrong and wants to be a better father. Yours doesn't. I think any effort to convince him of something will be wasted breath. He's a proto-typical fogged-out zombie.

Send something simple that makes him work out the details of communicating with the girls.

"It's great that you want to communicate more with the girls, but they feel guilty when you ask them why they haven't called. How about if you work with them to set up a time when they will be available for you to call. Maybe 9 pm every day or the like? They can, of course, call you any time."

Not too many words, low on emotion. Put him in charge. Separate yourself from the interaction.

Thanks sdguy, this whole thing can get my ire up sometimes.

WEll, STBX is looking anywhere from 830.00 to 1413.00 per month for my two...I'm hoping for a grand...

just to give you an idea of what LA's CS is...

Hey, I hear you, SL. The stuff he's doing makes my skin crawl. Having listened to both of you, however, I think your WH and Fox's are different. What works for you (and I think you've been playing yours just right) isn't necessarily going to work for her.

Fox, I think you're doing great with your plan B. Maybe too many emails, and it could be darker, but in terms of where you are emotionally, you're doing great. You've gotten to a place where you accept what might happen and recognize that you can't do anything to control WH. That's really good.

It sounds to me, though, like your WH is typical. The situation with OW is untenable and will fall apart sooner or later. I think we have seen signs of the stress--all the drama, and the fact that they hate that you and OWH talk. I'm no expert, but I think there's stll a lot of reason for you to be hopeful.

If that's what you want. And it may not be, but if it is, you have to leave that hope alive. Even if the divorce goes through, it's not necessarily over until you decide that it is. There will come a time where it will be YOUR choice what happens.

I think it was on IHC's thread where the discussion about hope was taking place. I think a lot of the Killer Bees are wavering in their hope at the moment, and I wonder whether it's just because we're not getting the reassurance we could use. We do a great job of supporting one another, but what the ****** do we really know about whether the plan is working or not? I love you guys to death, but I also love it when one of the real vets comes around my thread and says 'yep, you're doing fine, SDG. Keep it up.' When we DON'T get that, the tendency is to interpret it as 'they don't really think that there's any hope.' Lord knows we have reason to be insecure, but the reality may be that they think that we're doing fine and are spending their energy on the REAL messes.

I don't know. It may just be that those that sound like they're giving up hope are just venting or moving to a safer place in their Plan B. I certainly wouldn't take that away from anyone, but I get nervous when I see people seeming to give up hope. Because I don't want to.

What an excellent post, sdguy. Thank you.

I think you are right about the differences in SL WH and mine. My WH thinks he is a great father and it was me that made a not so great one before.

I didn't send him a message about the cell phones at all. I went back and forth on whether I should and decided not to. He is baiting me with that and I've decided not to take the bait. If I make a fuss, he'll just do it more to show me that he can. I'll just have to figure out a way to limit it myself.

Here is what I did send him:



A little wordier than it should have been probably. I've received no response as of it. That's fine.



It's so hard to hang on to that last piece of hope. Sometimes, I wonder if Plan B isn't just about distancing the BS from the WH actions. If we don't see/hear what stupid stuff they do, we can't resent them so much.

All these details about the treatment of DDs just makes my blood boil. And it takes me so much further away from wanting to reconcile. I feel like I HAVE to have these details, though, to protect DDs. I need to know how he has treated them to make the decision someday in the future whether he should be allowed back into their lives or if he has done so much damage that things just need to be as they are.


I couldn't have said this better myself. I've wondered this also, why the "pros" haven't had much to say about some of our threads. I'm hoping it's because we are doing as well as we can and not because there is no hope. Thank you for saying this so well.

I hope no one gives up hope. I haven't yet. As long as both parties are alive I believe there is some hope for everyone. "til death do us part"

It is true that I have hope, but I'm also not sitting here waiting and waiting and waiting for WH to remove his head from his [censored]. If it happens, I'll decide then if we have a chance. Life is out there and I am determined to make my life and DDs lives the best they can be.

Thank you all for your input!

He STILL hasn't told you what he plans to do about paying for his horse?? I can't believe they were looking at houses online the other day! Here he is skirting all kinds of financial responsibilities he has and he's looking at houses with his MOW?

What a dope...

I wonder how will he respond to your email.

Fox, what sdguy said, ditto.

Eav and I posted on IHC's thread last night after mimi was exasperated at Bee's giving up hope. I began to explain much of what impacts our hope and how difficult it is to keep that ember burning when we are actively disappointed DAILY by our WS's, especially in dealing with the children and the devastation racked upon them.

I still have hope, but it is difficult to fan that flame and keep all the balls up in the air sometimes...

Hi, FCF!

No, he hasn't told me what he plans on doing on the bill for his horse. I finally found out from lawyer yesterday that at mediation WH told him that "I'm not paying for that, she can"

The whole house thing is actually amusing. Just plain stupid. I hope they attempt it and are shot down or get into arguments about it. RBB will want to live in town and more on the east side where her son goes to school, WH will want to live out of town and on the west side where DDs go to school. And they'll need 4 rooms....WH will want a garage and basement and a little land. Who knows what RBB will want. Major differences will start to show here if WH is being is true self. And if they are able to do it and WH gives in on everything, he will be VERY unhappy.

In a way, I hope they do it...and lose it. They're rock bottom is really going to hurt.

It's coming, I KNOW it. Even after all this [email]cr@p[/email] with him, I KNOW his relationship with RBB will not survive. If I can just pull out if it enough where they can't point at me for everything, I'm positive they will turn on each other. Their first full weekend with DDs, RBB S7, RBB, and WH. This could be the beginning.......

I am not surprised at all that there seems to be a general “wavering of hope” among many in Plan B. Several of us are very close in the timeframe of Plan B and we have already frequently commented on how, “I was just about to post about that same feeling”.

Plan B by its very nature must have a time when your hope wanes. Plan B is your last strategic shot to save your marriage but there are no guarantees. Some make it, some don’t. I think the most important aspect of Plan B is learning how to let go and move on. Proving to yourself that you can make it on your own, that you are worthy and desirable and that you can rise above the biggest muck trough anyone ever put you in and leave with dignity. You do not have to extinguish hope to do these things but you must learn to base your decision making on facts and reality, and not hope. Plan B is not hiding in the dark waiting for Gadot, it’s about preparing to move on as a better and wiser person. And if it works out maybe your spouse will be with you on what is still a brand new journey.

I think the most veteran support players here don’t participate in these threads as much because frankly we are in Plan B and there is not much to say. We are no longer in the drama crisis of day to day dealings with drooling waywards (or at least shouldn’t be). Most of our issues now tend to be regarding coping with the changing and evolving feelings and legal issues. And we seem fully capable of supporting each other through this. Indeed we are the most qualified to help each other through this. Their time is needed with the brand new betrayed to help them through the darkest time they will ever have in their life. Just as they helped us when we first arrived.

That’s why I wanted to try to group and label the Killer Bees a few weeks ago. We are all on the same cruise ship but we are at separate parties. We are the loud raucous party that I suspect a few others wish they could be at.

Well, here is the latest. He is sure wound up about SOMETHING today!



Know what I'm going to give him back?........nothing. I've forwarded this email to my lawyer:

A Swimming Pool

A Shade Tree Out Back for Time Together.

And Most Important: A Big Kitchen!

Me thinks "someone" is trying to get me upset before my first full weekend alone.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He lost. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm okie dokie. Weather is supposed to be BEAUTIFUL, low 80's. Time for some horse back riding!

I went last night and exercised DD13 horse since she didn't want to ask WH to take her. I let the horse stretch out a little bit and gave her a good run. It was so beautiful and quiet up in the hills. I was a bit concerned about bears and mountain lions since I wasn't making much noise all by myself. But the mare was certainly alert. It was so good for the soul!

Fox