Yup, all is okay. I was out of the office yesterday and extremely busy today so won't be on much until beginning of next week.

One nugget of information: RBB H was served with D papers yesterday. They had a discussion in which she asked him where our relationship is going (he and I's nonexistant "relationship"). He said he didn't know. She told him there was no way that it would last. He asked her if she thought hers with WH was going to. She said "I don't know, probably." Very convincing, don't you think?

WHH and RBB are bound and determined that MOW H and I are deeply involved, that I will be moving in with him, and we plan to live happily ever after. RBB has told her H that is why they are not trying to recover. The ultimate justification.

She also told him that he is my b!tch and that I am going to end up taking his house and breaking his heart all over again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Just how foggy can people get?

Apparently... pretty [email]d@mn[/email] foggy. I seems that you two getting together and comparing notes on them REALLY got under their skin. Waywards HATE having the tables turned on them. They prefer to keep the "upper hand".

I hope you have a wonderful weekend wild!!!

OOOOOOOOOWWWWAAAAAAAAAA clang clang

OOOOOOOOOWWWWAAAAAAAAAA clang clang

Stay out of the Fog!

Glad you are back.

Alarm:
He is not thinking that you and he are in a relationship or that he is hopeful for one is he? I would have liked it better if he had knocked on her wooden head and said, "Hello. Wake up in there. We are not having a relationship Babs!"


You mean the safe place HIS children live at?

(:{0} [color:"green"]<<<<<[/color] Sigmund Freud Puking Emoticon (with Regan colored pea soup)

I think Bab's H said "I don't know" about our relationship just to bother her. I can't speak for what is in his head, though. We do talk often.

When Bab's H and I talked about him being served with D papers and his conversation with Babs etc, I talked to him about not discussing me with her at all. She brings up to him all the time the exposure emails I sent and how horrible a person I am and how I am after him for revenge.

Hopefully he'll keep me out of it. I don't need to be an OW, imagined or otherwise.

At the beginning he did attempt to knock on her wooden head and tell her that we are not in a relationship. The last few months he has either said nothing or agreed with her when she she insists we are up to something.

I have consistantly denied to WH that Bab's H and I are in a relationship (prior to Plan B). At that time, WH would just about blow up, insisting that we were and I just didn't see it.

Isn't it wonderful he sees my supposed behavior so clearly but not his own real behavior?

Hopefully RBB's BH keeps you out of things; you certainly do not need the added drama.

It's always easier to see the flaws in someone else. Not many would clue people in on how flawed they are. Nope, they would be busy slinging gossip about someone else. Turning that mirror, and peering into it can be tough, especially when you've been a really bad boy...

I was just thinking that I should get a little something going with OMW. Play with his kids some. See how he likes it.

But I won't, of course.

How have you been wild? Any word from your attorney?

Quick update before I get my nose back to the grindstone.

DD13 was upset and crying Sunday after talking to WH on the phone. We had another long talk and she is frustrated with WH. There is a parade this coming Friday that I take DDs to every year. WH was always invited but almost never came. DD13 can only remember one but I think that's because we have a picture (she was 4). It is "his" weekend but she wants to go with me. She is afraid to tell him because she doesn't want to hurt his feelings, but she really wants to go with me. I'm not a big fan of parades but I have always taken them because they enjoy it. I tried to explain to DD13 that it could be a good opportunity if WH takes them to do something for them that he doesn't normally do. She said it would be if it could be just them but she knows he will bring Babs. (He might not, she doesn't like that kind of stuff and doesn't normally take her own son)"And I hate her, Mom. We don't do ANYTHING without her."

I have to admit, a little bit of me was thrilled to hear this. For selfish reasons, I do not want them to like her. But for DDs sake, I want them to be comfortable when they are with their dad.

Anyway, I emailed WH to ask if I could take DDs to the parade and then bring them to him for his weekend. No response as of yet, I don't really expect one but thought I would try for DD13.

Lawyer called me back just minutes ago. He has the interim parenting plan (as agreed to at mediation) already written up and will deliver it to WH lawyer this afternoon. I should have a signed copy in my hands by Thursday. We'll see, I don't expect WH or his lawyer to be very quick on this.

Yes, sdguy, it is sooo tempting. I won't deny (and it isn't very MB of me, I know) that I do like the fact that WH and Bab's get soooo wound up that her BH and I talk. I've only ever spoken to her twice, but sounds like I am a hot topic between WH and Babs and between Bab's and her BH. She's got to be sick to death of hearing about me! Never knew I had so much power. She plays the blame game pretty heavy and everything is always my fault. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

She doesn't like me, not one teensy weensy bit. I do get some satisfaction that I am such a thorn in her side. I hope it's buried there long enough, it festers and gets infected. I hope she carries a scar around from me forever. (Can you tell that I don't like her one teensy weensy bit, either? - and I thought I had hidden it so well) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, Babs does not like you at all. And that is likley the key to their undoing. Divide and conquer. Be very careful in arming WH with ammunition to share with her to use against you. Let her do all her own love busting.

When in Plan B be very dark. When you have to step out concerning the kids be civil, polite if not even downright helpful.

Your H is still in that stranger somewhere locked away and lost. Babs is the one to free him.

I don't know, chrisner. It seems he hates me more than she does. EVERYTHING he knows about me (and some they have made up) has been shared, ridiculed, and will be used in any possible way for their gain. It floors me, the depth of his anger and hatred.

I was just trying to remember the last time I heard his voice. Probably the last Sunday when he didn't return DDs as agreed.

I see him from a distance and feel pretty much nothing at this point but irritation and sadness for his treatment of DDs. I know that could all change if he would just be a decent human being. But he isn't right now and I don't see an end to it.



I don't know.......

Cowgirl, he was a decent human being or you would not have married him. He was once a decent human being or you would not have had two incredible daughters with him.

It will happen. Will it happen in time for you? Only you will know.

I hope so, chrisner. I really hope that I just didn't make a mistake and see someone I hoped was there because I was so young and didn't know any better.

I am usually so convinced that this will end. I don't know where that conviction is today. Nothing special has happened...just another day. I have not always been convinced we will reconcile but I have been positive for a long time that Babs will destroy WH.

I really need to see some hint of that. It seems, though, that any time Babs and WH start to look like they are turning on each other, it gets twisted and then gets turned on me.

Yup, I know. Dark Plan B will remove me from that or at least protect me from knowing about it. I feel like I need to let DD13 talk to me about it, though. I am her only outlet...and then I know things that hurt me again.

Oh well, this too shall pass. Just a little pity party today. I'll bounce back.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow.

I have to believe that as the reality begins to set in, and the fantasy begins to fall apart, that waywards will have to put more energy into the affair to keep it going. They will thrash against everything, blame whomever and whatever they have left to keep from facing the reality of what they have done. This would be why the dark plan B is the most effective in the long term, because you aren't giving them any energy to keep the whole thing going (as tempting as it is to tweak and thwart them).

If this is the case, the increased lunacy from WH and Babs could be a sign that things are falling apart. I don't really know, of course, but it would be interesting to see what the Harleys had to say about this. How does this part of the Wayward script go?

I still think you are doing great, and I remain convinced that the affair will fall apart. It's only a question of when.

Fox, if you can stay detached and remain dark, even refraining from any conversations with Babs BH (as he will talk to Babs about you), it will kill the fuel for their fire. YOU are the fuel. You are the only resistance that they have; without that they have to face each other without you in the middle, and it sounds like they are having trouble keeping it together. I mean, do you seriously remember having SCREAMING matches early on in your R with your husband.

I remember happiness, blind bliss, but no screaming matches. ******, we didn't even have a negative word until well after two years together. Paradise Lost?

Ugh... Your STBX is such an idiot. He needs to be focusing on his DD's during his visits and keep their exposure to babs to a minimum. Instead it seems he's determined to shove babs down their throats in hopes they'll see what he thinks is so wonderful about her. It's sickening... and it's hurting your DD13.

If only the fog wasn't so thick and they weren't so determined to show you a thing or two. All they are doing is proving what selfish [censored] they truly are.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Nope, sl, no screaming matches EVER prior to the A. That is one piece that helps me see how unhappy WH will be with her. She's a SCREAMER.

HOW do I not be that fuel? Some of it is out of my control. With custody issues going back and forth between the lawyers right now, it is just more fuel and gives him reason to hate me. But I have to do it.

On the issue of Bab's H, I'm conflicted about this. On one hand, I feel that I can't abandon him right now. I KNOW how it feels to be in an empty house, so lost, and so alone and how grateful I am to be able to get a little support. I have needed all the convincing MB has done in regards to the ending of affairs. I share with him what I learn here. Before we started talking very much, he would go to the bars. If I can help keep him from that until he is healthy enough to do it on his own, what harm is there?

But on the other hand, just those conversations add an incredible amount of fuel and keep chaos in both of our lives.

But then.....if I stop talking to him, the waywards win again. And their smugness irritates the heck out of me. They are again in control of what I do and how I live my life.

If/when I am D and ready for a new relationship, will WH think he can chase away anyone who is interested because I let him dictate my conversations with others now?

No, I'm not saying you can't speak to him at all, but you need to have ground rules for engagement. His involvement in your life is being passed on to WH and Babs and they are USING that to continue their ENTITLED behavior (well, Fox is doing it, too) It BONDS them in a common goal, to hurt you.

If you are D, you can see anybody you [email]D@mn[/email] well please, and THEN tell WH to kiss thine [censored], but for now, this relationship with Babs BH does affect the sitch. If he is alone and needs help, find the proper help (counseling, divorce care/divorce groups, online forums....) If he needs a friend, well be friendly, but don't get too close.

The waywards never win, nothing, nada. See, if Babs BH is not relaying info back and forth, they will have NO idea what you are doing in your spare time, and that can be a DEADLY part of your arsenal, because then WH would have to wonder about what you are doing, and you would be silent, not there to answer, and it would nag him, and then he would LB with Babs, and, well, you get the picture.

EVEN if you don't want your husband back, I'm positive that you want the girls to have their daddy back. Your quiet living can help to effect that...

Let's just say hearing anything about you through the grapevine is STILL giving WH his fix.

Thank you, sl. I know I can always count on you to rap me on the forehead and make me think.

You're absolutely right, Babs and WH have a common goal to hurt me as much as possible. They are UNITED in this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />



I'm not sure about this, sl. Do I want them to have their daddy back? He sure hasn't treated them very well, either. Could he put them through this again? Would he go back to being on the outskirts of their lives and letting me do everything?

Fox...
don't have much time to catch up, but related to Bab's BH and how that fits in with Plan B. It reminds me a little of my relationship with MIL.

Unconsciously, I was using my relationship with her to hold on in some way to WH, to find out what he was doing, to re-hash things he had done, to vent. I kept her as a part of my support network.

Turns out that wasn't healthy for me. As much as I love her and would like for her to be part of my support network, it's just not possible, because ultimately things were getting back to WH and creating drama...thus I wasn't DARK. (liken this to you saying that it added fuel)

More important, communicating with her was like picking at a scab. I see that more now that I have cut off contact with her...my conversations led to more anxiety, more ruminating, more obsessing...as if I don't do that enough all on my own.

Anyway...I know it's not exactly the same, but you might want to consider tapping in to some of your other support systems (friends, family) to begin to fill the place that Bab's BH is filling.

So if the answer to your own question "what harm is there?" is "not much," then maybe a more appropriate question would be "does this relationship help me to grow and move ahead and find peace?"

I suspect that your answer would be no. Maybe not. But growing, moving ahead and finding peace are the ultimate goals, right? With or without recovery?

Just food for thought! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sis