Thanks, hopeandpray, I completely agree. Another thought I had was if I agree to "give up" DDs to him on that date, will DDs think that I don't want them when I could have them?

WH told DDs right after mediation that he could have them whenever he wanted, all he had to do was give me "reasonable" notice. That's a crock, never agreed to in mediation at all. DD13 has since said "I guess he doesn't want us that much, he hasn't asked for us any more than what you (Mom) said you agreed to in mediation".

He set himself up for that. Said he could have them whenever he wanted, than doesn't ask for them. What are they supposed to think?

Bravo for your girls, foxy, Bravo!

Voicing their wants and needs is very important, and will help them to work with their fears. They should never fear to speak their minds and ask for what they need.

I understand about work too, I was a mess last year, and my employers have been so caring about the whole sitch. I was able to get the job done, but couldn't multitask as I usually did, so my work performance was slightly off; still delivered finished projects, but it took about 25% more time.

Thanks, silent. I am so proud of my girls! It is so necessary for them to voice their wants and needs, not just to him but to me, too. If they want more time with WH, I'd like to know. If they want less, I'd like to know. They are the ones that suffer the most in this, both WH and I need to know what they want and how they feel about it.

I am so THRILLED that they were able to do that. Even though he was angry. And he pouted the whole way to drop them off. DD13 was sooo proud of herself!

He didn't even say goodbye when they got out of his truck. Just looked forward and they grabbed their bags and came to me. I gushed over them and was all happy and chipper. I didn't know at all about this drama until after we got home.

DD12 did not want to discuss it with me at all. The conversation about not bringing them home started between WH and DD12. DD13 was in her room by herself. DD12 told him that I was expecting them and that they were supposed to be back to me that evening. She got very upset with WH, not flat out telling him that she needed to go home but very agitated about it according to DD13 who overheard the beginning of the conversation. Then WH called DD13 in to discuss it and she very clearly said they needed to come home. YEAH!!!

DD12 was upset when I met them and she barely spoke the whole way home. Quite a while later she crawled into my lap, which is no easy task since she is slightly taller than I am, and just snuggled. Didn't say anything, just needed to be close. Eventually, she stretched out on the couch, put her head in my lap and got some rest. I combed the hair back from her temple as she slept and counted my blessings.

I truly am blessed and so grateful for my daughters.

I am so proud of your DD's!!! They stood their ground! I know it was probably harder for your 12 yr old because she feels conflicted over upsetting her dad.

So he considers "reasonable notice" to be the night he's supposed to return them? I think he needs to spend some time with a dictionary...

I could be wrong, but I get the sense that now that you have disengaged yourself, he's trying to get to you thru any means he can without it being "obvious" he is, like thru your DD's and such. Little does he know, he's pretty [email]d@mn[/email] obvious!

When you go to court do you plan to address the fact that sometimes he will have to give the girls to your sister? Didn't he refuse to give them to her the last time he mucked with the visitation schedule?

Pat yourself on the back wild, you are handling all of this like a pro!

Great for your girls, Fox! Really proud of you and them.


Once again, you could be talking about my situation. I'm feeling better in the Plan B, thus have been posting less. I guess I'll post an update on my thread if I can find it.

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. Sometimes it is really hard to see the forest for all the trees. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, FCF, I am planning to address the fact that someone else can be at the child transfer. I think I will narrow it down to extended family only. I don't want a loophole that will allow Bab's to show up. WH did give me grief about my sister picking them up one time because I had an injured horse. This same sister has in the past picked DDs up from school or picked them up from our house to go to the lake, shopping, etc. He had no legitimate reason for not wanting her to pick them up. He just WANTED me to do it.

Like last night....not allowing DDs to come into the store, forcing me to come out to get them......

The thing about that whole incident with your sister is he caused it by messing with the visitation schedule at the very last minute. No "reasonable notice" there. If he would have dropped them off when he was supposed to, when you were waiting and ready to get them, there wouldn't have been a need for your sister to help you out. You were dealing with horses that he has since washed his hands of, that he is technically still responsible for too.

He's just being plain selfish, and manipulative... IMO.

You’re right, FCF, if he would have just done what was agreed to in mediation, my sister picking them up would not have been an issue. He’s always dearly loved my youngest sister, thought of her as his own. He always trusted her with DDs. I know it really isn’t about her. It’s him trying to be in control and getting his digs in at me.

I was just updating my wall calendar (where I keep track of Plan B/WH contact), I’ve let it lapse in the last couple of months. Ummm….I’m a bit surprised to see that we have had SOME kind of contact at least once EVERY week. What is that? I counted everything except DD transfer, even his emails to me that I did not answer. I can’t believe there has not been one week since the beginning of April that he has not contacted me. Some of it was just about getting his stuff….but it’s still a reach out. How the heck can I get darker?! March was EXTREMELY dark (he tried making contact only twice), but than he started playing games again in April.

I kept myself busy all weekend. Went rafting with some friends. I had such a great time! I wished DDs could have been there, they would have LOVED it. I called and talked to DDs Friday night before I left town. I then called and talked to them Saturday morning and Saturday evening. Saturday evening they told me WH was taking them to the same hot springs resort I had taken them a couple of weeks ago. Bab’s and her S7 were going, too.

I called them Sunday morning, neither DD answered their cell phone so I left them nice cheery messages, telling them I hoped they were having a great time. Tried again Monday morning and still no one would answer their cell phones.

Finally reached DD13 Monday afternoon, told her I was on my way back to town and would pick them up at 8pm at the regularly scheduled place.

I arrived a little early at the meeting place, called DD13 to tell her what row the truck was in and to throw their bags in and come inside where I would be shopping. DD13 calls back 15 minutes later and tells me they are going to be late. I asked her why they were late and she kind of mumbled a little bit and I told her it was no problem and I would see her when they got there. Reminded her to put bags in my truck and come inside.

Fifteen minutes later, DD13 calls again and says “you need to come out and get us.” I very cheerfully said, “oh, why is that?” She said, “just ‘cause”. I asked her if Dad wouldn’t let them come into the store and she said “no, you have to come out here.”.

Knowing he could hear me through DD13’s cell phone, very upbeat, I said, “ok, I’ll be right out, it will take me just a minute because I have to check out.”

I get outside and notice WH had parked WAAAAAY out in the parking lot. It was VERY obvious where my truck was, there were not that many vehicles in the parking lot and I had told DD13 what row it was in. So I drive my truck over to his, park on DDs’ side of the truck. Everyone is just looking straight ahead, not saying a word. DDs got their bags out of his truck, put them in mine. WH did not speak one word to them, they shut the door to his truck and he drove off.

I’m thinking, “hmmmm, what is going on here?” I happily welcomed them into the truck, asked about their weekend, told them how much I had missed them, etc. DD12 said NOTHING, wouldn’t even look at me. Something was really bothering her. I could tell DD13 was just bursting at the seams to tell me something but didn’t want to discuss it in front of DD12.

We get home and drag all of our stuff into the house, DD12 parks herself in front of the TV, completely shutting out everything around her. I had asked a couple of times if she was okay. She was very short and all I got was “I’m fine.” I decided to give her a little time to work through it on her own but a couple of times I went to her and just gave her a hug and said “I love you.”

As I was putting groceries away, DD13 came in and spilled the story. WH was not going to bring them home. When I called the first time to let DD13 know I was there and where the truck would be to put their stuff, they were not even on there way yet.

DD13: Dad, should we get ready to go?
WH: To go where?
DD13: Back home
WH: No, you don’t need to.
DD13: Why not?
WH: Because you don’t need to.

DD13 went back to her room, wondering what she should do. DD12 was still in the same room as WH.

DD12: Aren’t you going to tell Mom you aren’t taking us?
WH: No, I don’t need to.
DD12: So she is just going to be sitting there waiting for us?
WH: (long pause, then rudely) Do you guys want to go home?
DD12: (backing down) Ummm….I don’t know.
WH: (rudely) Well, does your sister want to go home?
DD12: (quietly) I don’t know.
WH: Get your sister

DD12 goes to get DD13 who heard the whole thing from her room. DD13 goes into the room where WH is sitting.

WH: (rudely) So, do YOU want to go home?
DD13: Yes, we are supposed to.
WH: Well, you don’t have to if you don’t want to.
DD13: I want to, Mom is expecting us to be there.
WH: Fine, go get your stuff.
DDs gather their things and DD13 calls me to tell me they are going to be a little late. That is when I question her why and she couldn’t really say, WH must have been close. DD13 says WH did not speak to them at all after they got in the truck to come to me. She said he was “pouting.”

The one time he spoke was to tell DD13 that they could not go in the store, I had to come out and she needed to tell me.

DD13 was just irritated by it all. She is completely losing respect for him. I think DD12 was struggling with that, too. She doesn’t want to see him in that light and she was faced with it hard enough that she couldn’t deny it this time.

Later in the evening, DD12 crawled in my lap and started talking. Not about WH just stuff in general. She had worked through in her mind what she needed to and was ready to come back out in the world. I rubbed her back and talked about my weekend and plans for this next week and weekend. Eventually, she stretched out on the couch, laid her head in my lap and rested.

DD13 stood up to WH really well and DD12 did the best she could. She is still a bit protective over H and can’t seem to come to grips with this behavior from him. It’s too bad she ever has to deal with it.

DD13 later told me about their overnight at the hot springs. One hotel room, two beds. WH and Bab’s in one with S7 and DDs in the other. Where in his mind is it okay to sleep with your girlfriend in the same room as your DDs when he is still married to their mother? How incredibly uncomfortable for DDs. And just wrong, wrong, wrong.

BARF!!! That, IMHO, is just plain abusive.

Make sure you document this for the court.

WH,

You need to document this for court. This is normally not tolerated by Judges (particularly here in the South). It normally is a no no to have an paramour around the children and I know it's a no no to have her sleeping with you less than 5 ft from them in a hotel room.

For example, I just took my son and step daughter (really my daughter as she and I see it) to an amusement park along with a girl I have been dating and someone they have both met for dinner before. Even though I am divorced going on almost 9 months now, I still got a suite and parked my butt on the sofa in the next room at bed time while they occupied the king size bed in the adjacent room. I want my daughter and son to realize there are moral absolutes and right ways of acting. Your WH is more concerned about making Bab's part of the family (which she will never be, no matter how hard he tries, she will always be an intruder and imposter)and easing his guilt. Not too mention to get back at you in some small way.

I recommend a book called "The Sociopath Next Door" check amazon.com.

I am so sorry Cowgirl. This is so wrong, wrong, wrong from so many levels. I agree with eaglesoar; it was abuse. To all the kids it was abuse. Neither one of them is even showing a modest remaining ability to be a parent now.

Sick and twisted and really makes me angry for you, Fox. And the girls.

Another weekend trigger for each of us. Boing goes the WS check against the Love Bank.

You're doing a great job! They are lucky to have such a strong mom--they're going to need you more than ever in the days and months to come.

You can do it!

BLECH! I think it's abusive for that little boy to be sleeping in a bed with his mother and her lover; sick. Another one for the documentation book...

Oy. I'm so sorry for your beautiful girls, foxy; they do not deserve to deal with this behavior, but I see your DD coming out of her shell, and DD is already there. Hopefully, they will have some sway with the judge and be able to nip this type of visitation in the bud.

Fox - have your daughters been interviewed by a child psychologist?

If you haven't, you owe it to them to stop this emotional abuse NOW. Get them to an interview BEFORE your next court date. Allow her to speak for what's in the best interest of the girls - make sure she's on good terms with the judge so as to not appear biased against their father.

This needs to stop; WH and Babs are NOT married; and you should NEVER be putting a boy and two girls in the same bed, and in the same room as these sleazy adulterers.

No more Babs time with your daughters - get it court ordered. This antic should get you the leverage you need to make it so.

Thanks for all the responses. This situation just made me want to gag. Not so much that it bothers me that he is sleeping with her but that he did so in front of our children!

I talked to DDs a little bit about it trying to gauge their comfort level. DD12 said she didn't care. DD13 asked me "what difference does it make, Mom? We know he sleeps in the same room with her at his house." She said it didn't really "bother" her, it is just more of the same.

So what did I get out of that? DDs think it is "normal" for him to sleep with his girlfriend in their presence. Because that is what he always does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Yes, DDs have been to a counselor. I think they went a total of 7 times. Counselor said they were dealing as best as expected in this situation. She said I was doing a good job with them and to keep the lines of communication between them and I open.

But she also didn't think it was wrong for DDs to be introduced to Bab's and have her be worked in to their lives. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

As WH was not willing to be a part of their counseling, she told my lawyer that there was no point in continuing.

DDs and Bab's S7 were not in the same bed. DDs were in one and WH, Bab's, and her S7 were in the other. I didn't say that very well in the first post about this.

I want so badly to get it court ordered that DDs cannot be around Bab's. But my lawyer tells me a judge will not get involved in WH personal life.

I have called my lawyer and this will be used against him for custody but I'm told a judge will not say that Bab's cannot be around DDs unless she is an actual physical threat. To me, that is absolute bullchit. Emotional distress can be just as bad as a physical threat.


Where exactly will a judge draw the line? When WH actually has sex with her while DDs are there? Will he think they are asleep and think it is ok? Just makes me sick!

The first OW in my situation LOST COMPLETE CUSTODY of her daughters for doing this very thing. Guess it depends on the judge. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yuck, yuck, yuck!

I think it depends upon the state. I'm hearing the same thing Fox is.

Wow... I'm saddened to read this Fox! Yuck yuck yuck is right!