Hee hee, I love it!!

R & M are true friends.....telling H what he NEEDS to hear, not what WH WANTS to hear. A true friend will tell you when you are screwing up, not just go along with whatever you are doing.

Fox

Exactly. I imagine when they did try to say things to him, he couldn't turn into a 5 year old on them, like he would you. So he just shuts down and thinks they don't know what they are talking about. It's hard to get thru to someone still in the fog. I know... I was once thick in fog myself. Not anymore though!!! But, if you would've tried to get thru to me at that point in time, it would have been useless.

I completely agree. He thinks he can justify all the anger and resentment towards me, but he can't justify acting that way with R & M.

I am glad that WH talked to them about it. He NEEDS someone to talk to, that will talk to him straight. He may not have been able to "hear" them but one day he will. Once the bugs that baboons are infested with are removed from his ears. (defogger)

familycomesfirst, is your story here somewhere? I've looked but cannot find it. If it isn't, can you give me an overview? You seem to be light years away from waywardness and I'm interested in how you get there, even if your marriage did not recover. YOU seem to have recovered from the A disease.

Fox

Taken from an article about working with the animals on the movie "Bruce Almighty"

"There is one scene when the baboons bring me lemonade. In one take, the baboons spilled the lemonade and I improvised and said something like, 'Hey man? What are you doing?' The baboon thought I was getting aggressive with it. It bared its teeth and took a very aggressive stance and it scared the ****** out of me," Carell says. "After the take the trainer said, 'You know what, don't do that. Really, don't talk to the baboon.' And then he paused and said, 'You know what? As a matter of fact, don't look the baboon in the eye.' And I'm like, 'What? Why didn't you tell me before they were shooting not to look the baboon in the eye?'"

I can totally relate!

I will post it after lunch. It was probably zapped in the great board change a couple of years back.

Thanks, fcf. I'm interested in seeing how things progressed for you. And thank you for always checking in on me. When I've had a difficult night or just a so-so one, it's nice to get to work in the morning, pull MB, and see your simple "so, how are ya today" messages. Improves my mood instantly.

As I mentioned yesterday, WH and I are working on Father's Day arrangement. I don't know why it always has to be a long drawn out process. He asked what he wanted, I agree or disagree with minor changes, then he as to make more comments and asks for my comments. My response to his request yesterday is as follows:



His response to me:



He's back to always putting "Fox" and"WH" . I don't. He knows who it is from and who I am talking to.

It's interesting how he is back to sounding somewhat reasonable...no venom even when I do not agree.

And he words things funny "if you decide to keep the arrangment as you set it up " Then "so I know where we are at" There has not been a "we" in a very long time...a while ago it would have been "tell me what you will let me do so I can talk to the girls."

Nice he is thinking of my convience. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> There are no extra trips, I'd bring DDs in on Sunday, spend the day at work, meet him to pick them up and go home. I have to go to work Monday morning and will bring DDs with me and drop them off at MIL house as we have arranged on "his" weekdays.

I'd like to just respond and say "I'd like to keep the schedule as it has been" HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT!?

Unfortunately, because court is so close, I feel I need to expand and put on a good front of "co-parenting". These WILL BE used in court.

So, my response will be:

"Thank you for thinking of my convenience, I have made plans so I do not have to make multiple trips. I would like to keep the schedule as it is now. (I'll bring DDs to you at XXXX at 9:00am Sunday and then pick them up from you at 8:00pm on Sunday night.)"

I don't believe for a minute he was thinking of my convenience.

In around 2001 I was having a lot trouble with depression and anxiety. My mom had passed away unexpectedly in 99 and I had been going downhill since. I had lost a lot of weight and was having a terrible time emotionally. I guess I didn't feel like my H was supportive enough. He acted as though he was disgusted by my emotional state. He railed on me for considering taking antidepressants, said that I'd be a non-feeling mummy. He felt I needed to realize I had a lot going for me and just get over it. (Over time, he changed his opinion on this. Believe it or not, the A facilitated some of that.)

So, in steps MM. I met him online. I discovered the dark world of online chat rooms. We decided to meet because he lived in a neighboring city and traveled to my city for work. We seemed to "hit it off" right away. We spoke via chat or on our cell phones during the day a lot. He came to my town often. I remember I'd get a high from seeing him and I'd temporarily feel "better" only to crash later. It was a tough time, I was ate up by guilt when I'd see my DD and H, but I wouldn't stop seeing him. I was grinding my teeth at night and my weight loss was only increasing.

So, this continued for roughly 6 months when my H began to get suspicious. We had a couple of blowups where he asked if I was seeing someone, and I'd deny deny deny.

Well, one night, after going to a concert with friends and I wasn't exactly sociable to be around (my anxiety was continuing to get worse) he confronted me again. I don't know why but I decided to spill it. I started off thinking I'd just say we were friends but he wasn't buying it. So, I told that it was an A. I was very foggy the night I told... so the full affect of it all didn't set in right away. My H was very angry, and rightfully so. We spent the rest of the weekend together, he was afraid to let me out of his sight for fear I'd contact the MM.

On the way to work on the day I went back I just kept thinking over and over, my H knows, my H knows. The shock started to really set in. I got online and MM pops on with a cheery hello and I just tell him flat out, my H knows, it's over. He was shocked, he couldn't believe I had told. We had never said we'd leave for each other, I had no romantic ideas in that regard. I had thought about how I would handle things being single. I thought for sure my H would want a D, that he'd never stay married to me after what I'd done. My H did want to do bodily harm to MM. He wanted to know where he worked so he could kick his @$$. Luckily he worked in another city, making this hard. I didn't need my H in jail over this... and my H knew it was a bad idea too.

This whole incident occured the weekend before Halloween, so I had taken our DD trick or treating with some neighbors. My H stayed at home and gave out candy. I had to call him to come get me, I was feeling so sick, I was running fever and had a bad cough. I proceeded to get very sick from all the stress (broncitis), I barely ate as it was, and this only made it worse. I felt like a horrible person. I think that is what made my H finally see how bad of shape I was in emotionally. He then encouraged me to take antidepressants, see a counselor, whatever I needed to get well. My grandmother was convinced I had diabetes because I was so thin.

Things ended with MM. My H went thru the normal roller coaster of emotions and triggers, we did some hysterical bonding, although our sex life had always been active anyway. I finally found an antidepressant that worked. I don't know what it was, but that antiD completely stopped my desire to see MM. It's like it leveled something out in me that had been off balance for so long. I was eating normal again, sleeping great, and reconnecting with my family. I had a hard time being close to them when I was being so deceptive. My R with my DD suffered thru it all too, I was so mad at myself about that. It felt good not to have to feel that way anymore.

It hasn't always been easy, there were times I wondered if it would have been better to cut loose and let my H move on to someone who hadn't done this to him. Now I'm glad I didn't entertain those thoughts.

Now the thought of doing what I did makes my skin crawl. I feel like I'm looking back on a stranger really...

No, he's not. He trying to make you look unreasonable, IMO.

And I'm glad you don't mind me checking on you. Sometimes I think I'm being a pest. I find your story very emotionally compelling. My dad left our mom for his OW and I can sympathize with your DD's. It sucks going to the girlfriends house, that your dad moved into. At least they never married!! I was glad when he dumped that heiffer.

Thanks for your story, FCF.

I don't have anything constructive to add, Fox, other than that I think you're doing well.

(((Fox)))

Thank you so much for your story, fcf. I am so glad you and your H were strong and brave enough to make it through that.

I can see how people fall into A's (not that it is right) but I don't understand why it takes them sooooo long to realize what a mistake it was.

I saw WH last night at DD13 competition........and thought about what a pathetic life he is going to continue to have if he doesn't realize what he is doing. He has lost so much and will continue to lose.

WH needs some serious help. He was also sick right after the ILYBNILWY talk. He wasn't eating, sleeping (when he was home), and was throwing up. He was sick for months, right along with me. But it wasn't enough. I expect when he and Bab's start to REALLY fall apart, he will be right back there. He had bouts of depression here and there in the marriage, mostly related to work, I thought. He would be down and I would work my tail off to bring him back up. He'll be on his own. I know I have to let him get there on his own and he will have to want help before it can be of any use from anyone else. I hope he does it, for our DDs sake.

Time....again, that darn word, time.

I really feel myself moving on and being able to cope. Not just cope, but really being okay without someone right now. I miss my DDs when they are with WH and I'd change that if I could. I'm just really done with who WH is right now. He isn't a fit husband, father, friend, son, or co-worker. I just don't even like him.

I asked DD13 last night if DD12 was mean to Bab's S7 and asked her about the night R & M were there and who was picking on him. DD13 said M's boys. M had thought that might be the case, they get a little rowdy and Bab's S7 was always an only child and thinks he rules the house. (I didn' tell M this was the case, I was just curious about how DD12 interacts with him. Although I know it is WH problem). I asked DD13 if DD12 ever told him he was "obnoxious", etc. She said no, she'd never heard her say it.

So.....if Bab's is accusing DD12 of being mean to her son and it is unfounded (DD13 said WH had asked her about it, too), WH will start to be a little resentful and hopefully protective. And WH DOES NOT like her S7 anyway.

Tick tock, tick tock........

Thanks, sdguy, for checking in. I read about your laundry problem....tsk, tsk, tsk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My girls used to get a rash under their armpits, too, when we lived in CA. Doc said it was just perspiration and it caused irritation. They were fairly young, kindergarten and first grade, I bought a gentle (no perfume) teen deodorant and it cleared up. Ya might consider it. Of course, if you haven't seen it yourself, that might just be the best SCQ can come up with so she HAS to contact you. Super Dark Guy, you da man! Guy Smiley, you da man, too! (I almost typed "you da OTHER man" and than I thought, THAT AIN"T RIGHT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WH,

I, like you, don't think he cared one bit about your convienence and really was trying to 1) get a written response from you that would show you being vindictive or unaccomodating or 2) in order to show the court how important his children are to him that we wants extra time with them (if they were that important he would dump Babs and work on his marriage). Sounds manipulative to me.

No problem wild. I wasn't sure if you realized I am a FWW.

So your WH doesn't like DS7? Interesting... and it sounds like Babs gets annoyed with the girls. I bet they are typical teens around her, rolling their eyes behind her back and such! lol

What a match made in heaven!!! NOT!

And, about your WH being so sick. That sounds to me like he was majorly conflicted, but he chose to stick to what he said instead of swallowing his pride and trying to work on your M. His loss...

hopeandpray,

That's exactly what I thought when I first read his email. Saying what he needs to so he looks good for court. I did the same by thanking him for thinking of my convenience.

All bullpucky, he wasn't thinking of my convenience and I didn't really appreciate it. All this manuevering is sad. It would be nice if he REALLY was thinking of me...then I REALLY would appreciate it.

I plan on showing the judge just how important his kids have been to him. All those nights away from home, no calls, late to b-day parties, etc, etc. A no-fault state doesn't allow an A into the proceedings very much, but it will for custody purposes. I intend to blow him out of the water. On that day he will KNOW exactly what the A cost him, legally. The REASON for EVERYTHING he loses, is the A.

If the M had disintegrated differently and he was living alone, I would be more accommodating for scheduling. I'd hate to lose time with DDs, but realize Dad is important, too. And I would feel like they were important to him. Right now, Bab's is along for EVERYTHING, there is no DD/Dad time, only WH/Bab's time with kids along for the ride. Because he is living with Trash, I will be a harda$$.

Fox

WH,

You and I would get along great....I in effect said this to ex WW before huge custody battle over 18 months old son (which I am sole custodian now). If our marriage had simply disintegrated (problem here is that we had a good marriage complete with all the trials and tribulations, but nonetheless a good marriage), I may think differently. But to think that she was OR as the case is now, is going to take our son and melt him into her new family fantasy complete with POS OM is not going to happen. I told her "over my dead body" and I meant every word of it.

I will never get over these waywards willingness to give everything up for a fantasy that in a large majority of the cases ends up being short lived, dead end relationship with nothing to show for it but devestation on all fronts. I do believe these people are sick and in need of much psychological help.

fcf, I thought I remembered you mentioning before that you were a FWW, early on in my thread, I just didn't know your story. I really appreciate the fact that you are here, speaks volumes about your true character. Mistakes are a given, it's what you do about them that makes a differnece. I wish more FWS would come here and give us BSs a little insight about what they truly go through. Not give excuses and justifications, but provide an understanding of what the mindset really is.

Thank you so much for being here.

The issues about the kids may be their biggest undoing. Both will be defensive and protective about their own and resentful of the others. Yup, DDs are teenagers and have all kinds of attitude when they can get away with it. I think they completely ignore Bab's and make her feel like an outsider. Or if forced to interact with her, are borderline rude.

My boss' daughter is getting D'd also, she filed in April and her court date is not until October. So, Bab's filed in May, no court date yet set, but my best guess is that it will be set November or December. I think Bab's and WH relationship will be over quite a while before then.

Remember that CD that I talked about before? The one for Father's Day, DDs pictures through the years, pictures with H...all smiling happy pictures, with music he associated with his DDs playing in the background. He may want to remember it all as everyone being miserable and this is the best for everyone, but he can't. Those pictures reminded ME of all the good times and how happy we were. My hope is that it reminds him of what incredible daughters he has and how much he still has to contribute to their lives. Not about me, not about him, all about DDs.

No expectations, just memories for him that nothing can replace.

When WH and I were so sick at the beginning of this (I didn't know about the A yet), I absolutely threw myself into improving myself and doing everything I could to do what he needed. I worked out like a fiend, made GREAT dinners (which he hardly ate), emailed him during the day (just thinking of you notes, DDs and I's plans for the day). HUGE LONG emails....detailing everything. And emails telling him how sorry I was that things were going the way they were, how much I loved him and wanted to make him happy, thanked him for all he had always done. Letters saying the same thing, but also letters explaining what I had needed from him and where I thought things went wrong and what I thought we could do about it to make us all happy again.

I think he was TERRIBLY conflicted, but you're right, he still chose the A.

Around Christmas and into January he was telling me that he still had those letters and emails.....and reread them often. And thought about our marriage...day by day. He was BACK in conflict but still chose the A. He is headed into conflict again...will he choose a real life or the A again? That conflict is his and his alone. DDs and I feel the ripples, but the monster wave is all for WH.

H will appear again, he may be XH by then, but WH will die one day. He may no longer be my husband or my friend, but the core character of the man I knew will come back and I hope DDs get the benefit of that.

Time...again.....time......

Not so much hope anymore, but alot of faith.

Fox

Congratulations on being the sole custodian. MUCH safer for your son. I believe the same as you do, that our M was good. Had all the usual stuff, but still good on the whole. If there was no A, there would be no D.



You hit the nail on the head here. Some are sicker than others. It really feels like a mental illness, most people don't even recognize WH anymore, different personality, different attitude, just plain DIFFERENT. And certainly not BETTER.

Well, DDs should get a little alone time with Dad today. Bab's and her BH are going to the required Child First class. Should be there right now.

That's 2 hours of time that WH could devote to DDs. I hope he makes good use of it.

You're taking words out of my mouth.


This will be the undoing. Or only one of the undoings. It WILL fall apart. It's only a question of when, and whether you will be willing to take him back.


Now THAT's funny. I'm pretty sure it's the dryer sheets. I ran out of "Bounce Free" and started using regular Bounce that someone left at my house. So I quit using dryer sheets altogether but didn't go back and rewash all of her clothes. I'm so irresponsible.

Hang in there, Fox!

I hope he made good use of it too! So they are taking a "child first" class? I doubt a class will work on her... she needs electroshock therapy.

I feel bad for bab's DS7, he didn't ask for any of this either. And you can bet he knows your WH doesn't love him like his dad does. It must suck to have your dad replaced literally overnight.