I think fox was just supporting a fellow boarder who is in the midst of her own foxhole adventure. No more, no less. It seems that almost every thread that Sis starts ends up being a place for people to hash out what THEY have been through, which is fine, but I agree with fox, that after a few healthy, well placed 2x4s, repeating the same things over and over again is a little obnoxious.

Is there some statute of limitations that says people must leave these boards if they decide that they cannot do anything more to affect change in their M? Are posters supposed to leave the boards, and stop their own personal recovery?

fcf, I asked an honest question...you sure are jumping to alot of conclusions about my motives.

BR, maybe it was just your timing in asking, people can't perceive tone of conversation on these boards. It is a valid question.

I think fcf is right, you need to begin at the beginning to have any clue as to what anyones motives MAY be. Many threads are very long here, and getting the jist may leave some holes.

I just happen to like Wild a lot and I know she's been thru a lot with her WH. I'm feeling a tad protective of her, just like she felt protective of lilsis. I HOPE your intention is not to pick her apart based on a few pages.

I may very well be jumping to conclusions but I've been around here long enough to know where people are USUALLY going with a question like yours. You came on pretty strong in your post to lilsis about her boys. I'm just hoping you aren't planning an attack on Wild is all.

If you are not... then great! I'd love to be wrong in this case.

guys, I asked a question. From what I read, I could not tell the answer for myself and ASKED wild what she is trying to achieve before posting anything else.

I think there's been a lot of arguing here lately and it has people on edge.

*I* am not on edge. And btw, I posted to Wild...so why don't you wait for her respond instead of defending her from imaginary attacks? She's a big girl.

Post deleted by familycomesfirst

if you really want to pick a fight with me about other stuff fcf, take it off of Wild's thread...geez. Show her some respect.

BR, I have ready many of your posts and in general agree with what you have to say. MANY here have great wisdom and I value very much their input. I do not agree with threatening someone if they don't agree with what you have to say. I think you have helped Sis a great deal, just not in this particular instance.

My goal right now? Is to take care of myself and my daughters the best that I can. Deal with what comes at me and enjoy my friends here. I get both here, divorce preparation support and encouragement in saving my marriage. I have to accept the fact that divorce is heading my way but also have a shred of hope for my children that my WH will want to recover. It isn't black and white...it's a little bit of both.

I, too, am a bit surprised by your sudden interest. You've never been interested in my situation before. Now that I've gotten into the squabble on Sis' thread, it feels like you are on my thread to point out how wrong I am if I think I should have an opinion.

If you have come in here to truly help me, thank you. If not, please don't bother coming back.

Thank you to those that have stepped in here to check on me and for supporting me. It is deeply appreciated.

I'm off for a little bit for a kid run and then will update about my 4th. Pretty quiet, but fun as I had DDs.

Fox

Actually wild, it has become clear to me that there are more than a few inexperienced folks on the board, banding together to support each other with very little input from anyone else.

From my point of view, I see people cheering each other down the path to marital destruction - and my assumption is, at the end of the day and in a perfect world, NONE of you want to be divorced.

I thought I might try to help a few more than just Sis because we could use more people around here with solid experience. I initially choose Sis because she seemed to want to focus on herself and was willing to hear something other than what she wanted to hear - and I didn't have time to do more than that. I am in school, full time job, 3 kids ... all that life stuff ya know.

So, I have poked around on the board today - and found by reading your thread that you are on a pretty fast path to divorce.

I just wanted to know how you felt about that, and what your strategy and goal was, because it is not clear.

For your marriage to have a chance to be saved, YOU have to change. Are you willing to do that?

Fox,
Been following your posts and thought I would stop by and see how your 4th of July went.
I was sad to see the post by BR you sure don't deserve that.
FCF I like the way you stood up for what is right.
Fox have a great day! FCF take care <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is absolutely correct. Those of us who are "inexperienced" have banded together for support and have commented on the lack of input from those more experienced. I, for one, have always wanted constructive input. WAT helped me a great deal as did Mr. Wondering and I listened to what they had to say. Then WATleft and Mr. Wondering got busy. And others are too busy arguing on other threads. What exactly the criteria for being "experienced' anyway. Is it a certain number of times you have gone through infidelity in your marriage, is it the amount of time being registered with MB, or the number of posts on MB? What exactly lends one person more credibility than another?

I wasn't cheering Sis on to marital destruction. I wanted her to know that she is understood. I don't have to agree with every little thing in order to understand where she is coming from. I may not be as experienced as others, but I have stood in her shoes and had feelings very similar to what she is feeling. I think I UNDERSTAND her and try to let her know that some people know where she is coming from. To me, some of what she says is misconstrued and dissected so badly that what really happened is forgotten.

I am a human being with feelings and experiences of my own. My input to others has value whether everyone sees it or not. I will freely admit to being on edge today. Sis' thread started it yesterday and it has stayed with me. I was defensive of Sis and I'm defensive of myself. I've done the best I can with the knowledge that I have.

When I know better, I'll do better. I've never been unwilling to change. But I need an understanding of where I have been wrong and what reason for change. Not just change because how I was wasn't good enough for WH. I don't see the point in changing simply for the point in changing.



Thank you, BR. It is appreciated. I value your opinion and do truly realize that you have a life outside of MB.



Ya think? What, in your opinion, should I change? I ask these questions in all curiosity, I'm not being sarcastic.



Have you honestly read my complete thread (and the first one from the beginning) or have you only glanced over the last few pages? You can't tell me I haven't changed without reading my complete thread.

I would honestly like to hear what you have to say. Thank you for your time and interest, BR.

Hi BrambleRose


BRose,

You are very correct.

Several weeks ago there was a general feeling and conversation among one of these groups that they were being ignored by many of the most veteran posters. If I recall correctly a thread was even started just about that.

Most were Plan B'ers and most of those were already in divorce proceedings.

The thread sank like a stone into darkeness.

I think that for many of these people their thread lacked the interest and excitement because it was about Plan B and frankly if done well Plan B is a bore. Most of the support offered by this group to each other was to compare the emotional timeline and encourage continued darkness to those who wavered or on occasion flat blew it.


I personally think this would be a very good and valued thing.

I think there are several situations on this board right now quietly entering very critical days if they have any hope for recovery.

Several weeks ago there was a general feeling and conversation among one of these groups that they were being ignored by many of the most veteran posters. If I recall correctly a thread was even started just about that.

Most were Plan B'ers and most of those were already in divorce proceedings.

The thread sank like a stone into darkeness.

I have, on a few occassions, mentioned the lack of enthusiasm from many 'veterans' to delve into peoples threads who are in Plan B. As Chris says, it is a bore, we are all working toward personal recovery at that point, and there is not excitement in no contact.

Mimi stuck by me all of the way through, thick and thin (my brain, that is). She has helped me to self-examine. HOWEVER, BUT BUT BUT...I too made similar mistakes as Sis, and understand where she is coming from as the wounds, for me, are still so fresh.

I, also, also, did get the feeling that you, BR, were asking a pointed question, not to help, but to point out some failure on fox's part (wildhorses), seeing as there was no previous interest in helping before today. I also agree that one must delve into an entire thread to see growth. Her M is on the fast train to D, from what it seems NOW, but this has been a long journey for Fox.


I'm not defending Fox, I'm stating what I have been around to see in her. Just as I've seen that in Chrisner, sdguy, BC, Eph, Sis, Rinder (strvn), frognomore, now my brain is failing me again, but so many more Bee's and Recovering.

For the BS stumbling through this, it's hard to know how to interpret the lack of interest from veterans. I like to think it's because Plan B is boring and there are other fresh lost souls to help, but there's always a part of you wondering whether it's because none of the veterans are listening or maybe it's that the veterans are shaking their heads and thinking "it's hopeless for that poor ******, but I'm not going to be the one to tell him." So the Bees provide what support to one another that we can. I love my Killer Bee amigos completely, but it helps a LOT when a veteran checks in and offers advice.

Regarding BR's presence here, text is flat, without any inflection, so it is easy to misinterpret. Coming on the heels of her posts on Sis's thread (which were perceived as attacks by many), I can see why some people feel Fox is being attacked, too. I honestly don't think that is the case, but I can see why people do.

What?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

From what am I not being defended? My own journey or my thoughts on Sis' thread?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's all good.

Interesting that my thread got pulled back up today. I've had NC with WH for a couple of weeks. Until today. Could be part of why I'm feeling so ornery today. WH called me at work today. I told him what he asked (about DDs) and then sent him an email telling him to only contact me by email unless 1:)his current girlfriend is out of his life forever or 2) an emergency regarding DDs. He responded and it pi$$ed me off. I wrote an email in response to but I did not send. Needed to get it off my chest, things I've wanted to say for a long time. Got me wound up a bit.

Thank you all for showing up, in defense or otherwise.

My 4th was fairly quiet. Went with my mom, sisters, bil, nephew and DDs to a nearby lake. We had a picnic and did a little swimming. Then back to my mom's for fireworks. We didn't get home until close to midnight.

DD12 was a bit of a bear because she had been to a slumber party the night before and they didn't go to sleep AT ALL.

Thanks for asking. Hope you all had a good time.

Fox

Let me tell you something about myself before I answer this. I tell it as it is, and I say what I think needs to be heard, not what I think someone wants to hear.

So, are you willing to hear my honest answer about both 1. Why the lack of vet response and 2. What it takes to be 'experienced'? Are you willing to think about my point of view without becoming defensive?


That was not your intention, of course not. But ... stop and think. The path to he11 is paved with good intentions... What if what you said to her caused her harm, even though you meant well?

As a lifelong ever recovering co-dependent, I can tell you that I did tremendous harm in my life to people that I was just trying to help.

This stuff is deadly serious and has life long consequences. I am not going to protect someone's feelings over saving their lives.


Do you really think that those of us who have been there and done that, and held the hands of countless people before you and Sis, don't understand?

The thing is, we do. In a huge way. And we understand the significance of her actions based on our own lives and our own experiences with so many who have come and gone before you.

But I really didn't come over here to argue about Sis. She will either lick her wounds and roll up her sleeves and get back to work, or she'll choose to do something else. She's a big girl too.


Your input has value - certainly. But you've taken it farther than value....


I am sure you have. But .... we'll talk about your defensiveness later if we get that far.


And you never will...if you keep trying to win. There is no competition here....as much as some people act as if there is!



I have some pretty good ideas, but we'll see.


I haven't read the 50+ pages of your thread because I am not willing to invest the time without the understanding that there is a desire and willingness to listen on your part

But to your immediate point - you may have changed - affairs are certainly life changing experiences.

But I can tell you right up front you still have work to do.

Do you know anyone who is so perfect that they have nothing left to fix?

Sorry about the email trigger, Fox. Hit us with the details if you want.

Fox,

I'm not defending you, well, because there is nothing to defend. As BR stated, you are a big girl. I'm here to support where I can, not defend. Now, if someone is just out and out blasting you for no apparent reason, I'll be there, Fox. Seems BR is spending some time, some interest.