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Yes, please read her whole story BR. Then if you truly want to help that's great. But realize you did attack lilsis, she even says she felt attacked. That will help you understand why we questioned your sudden interest in Wild.
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Let me tell you something about myself before I answer this. I tell it as it is, and I say what I think needs to be heard, not what I think someone wants to hear.
So, are you willing to hear my honest answer about both 1. Why the lack of vet response and 2. What it takes to be 'experienced'? Are you willing to think about my point of view without becoming defensive? I'm also a tell it like it is kind of person.....but I hope I do it in a kind and caring way. Being that kind of person is not an excuse for rudeness. I'm not saying you specifically are rude. I'm saying people who are just plainly blunt can come off as being rude. That is what I take offense at. I'm all for another take and someone elses view on a situation, but I need a little back up reasoning. I need the WHY's of their opinion, not just a flat out "this is how it is". Because "this is how it is" is how that one person sees it. Yup, I'm willing to hear your honest answers. I'm not willing to guarantee that I won't get defensive. This is my LIFE, this is my CHILDREN's lives, I'm a bit defensive when it comes to that. If I don't agree with your take, does that mean I am defensive and not listening? I will tell you that I will honestly listen and take your opinion to heart. I may not agree, but would welcome discussion. Let's work it out and maybe we'll both understand each other's view better. I wasn't cheering Sis on to marital destruction. [/quote}
That was not your intention, of course not. But ... stop and think. The path to he11 is paved with good intentions... What if what you said to her caused her harm, even though you meant well? This can be said to every single person who makes a post here. Including "vets". As a lifelong ever recovering co-dependent, I can tell you that I did tremendous harm in my life to people that I was just trying to help.
This stuff is deadly serious and has life long consequences. I am not going to protect someone's feelings over saving their lives. I was a child of an alcoholic. Been there, done that. Been through the programs, etc, etc. I can't tell you the countless times my mother left my father only to return to them because she didn't think she could make it on her own. I can't tell you the times as a 12 year old child that I would jump into the arguments between my parents to defend my mother against him, to turn his anger on me and away from her. I can't tell you the times I wished my parents would get divorced or that my father would just die and leave us alone. My mother finally got the guts to divorce him, when my older sister and I were out of the house and my brother took my place in defending her. It was starting to get violent at that point. He finally did die.....4 years after the divorce. Know what? We are all better off without him. I don't hate him, my older sister and I were the only ones at his bedside when he passed away. I was the only one talking to doctors, working out a plan, asking for more testing, checking out nursing homes, etc. He was 54 years old. I believe he died still hating me. I've seen the enabling of an alcoholic in my own life. I understand the concept fully. Do you really think that those of us who have been there and done that, and held the hands of countless people before you and Sis, don't understand? I think sometimes the vets are so far out of the initial crisis phase, they forget how fragile we can be. Sometimes being LOVINGLY CONFRONTED feels like one more stomp or kick when we are already so down. I am not going to protect someone's feelings over saving their lives. Their life or their marriage? Which is more important. Sometimes you can't have both. But you've taken it farther than value.... Would you like to finish this thought? If you are a say it like it is kind of person, say it. And you never will...if you keep trying to win. I'm not trying to win...I'm trying to survive. But I can tell you right up front you still have work to do.
Do you know anyone who is so perfect that they have nothing left to fix? Absolutely I have work to do, I've never doubted that. But I need to know WHAT and WHY. What are the specific changes, what is wrong with me and what is the advantage to changing what is viewed as wrong. Do the people that are important in my life and really know me view these things as wrong? I sound defensive again today even to myself and that is not how I mean to come across. Part of it is because I'm concerned I've been mostly ignored by vets for MONTHS (and crucial months) and now that I've gotten strong enough to post support on someone elses thread, I'm going to have vets come onto my thread, pick it apart with a fine tooth comb and "prove" to me that I have no right to say anything because I'm such a screw up. I'm willing to learn, but I have to trust who I'm learning from. I have to have confidence that they have my best interests at heart....and I'm not sure I can. I do hope you'll stay, BR. I think I can learn from you. I've gained alot of knowledge from others here and welcome fresh input. Fox
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I'm going to share my exchange with WH yesterday. I'd like you all to know up front that I do see my mistakes here. I have difficulty figuring out how to make Plan B work when in specific situations. This may be a little long so bear with me...I'll give a little of the background to make things a little clearer. The visitation schedule during school was that WH would pick DDs up from school at 2:45pm on Mondays and Thursdays and we would meet at 8pm for him to return them to me. When school let out for the summer WH and I had some discussion back and forth on how he would pick them up, he asked that I leave work to go get them and bring them to the meeting spot. I declined as I cannot leave work in the middle of the day and am unwilling to do so to make his life easier. We finally compromised by agreeing that I will take DDs to his mother's (who lives a few blocks from my office and a few blocks from his house) on Mondays and Thursdays on my way to work. I did not agree that these became his new visitation hours, I did not agree that it will prohibit me from taking my daughters to lunch or spending time with during that day if I can, as long as he is not there. I did not grant his mother visitation in his place. I was doing him a favor by bringing DDs to town because he said he couldn't afford the gas and his vehicles would not make it. DDs and I didn't get home until almost midnight on Wednesday night due to fireworks, etc. I did not take DDs to his mother's Thursday morning as usual, I let them sleep in as we had been out so late. My plan was to take them to his mother's at noon. Well before his normal pick up time. I am not obligated to take them to his mother's at all, they don't need to be babysat and would be offended if they thought this was the case. It made his life easier, not DDs or mine. WH called my cell phone shortly after 9am. I saw it was him and didn't answer. A few minutes later, he called my work phone. Which I HAVE to answer. He asked where DDs were, I told him where they were and when I would be dropping them off. The conversation was pleasant enough. Decency on both sides. He did say he would not be picking them up from his mother's until after 4pm. After we hung up, I sent him the following email: WH,
Please contact me by email only unless the following conditions are met:
1. Your current girlfriend is out of your life forever or
2. There is an emergency with DD13 or DD12.
If you lived at home with your family, you would know what their plans for the day were. One of the many costs of separation and divorce is not having our finger on the pulse of the family. I'm asking you to respect my boundaries. I cannot stay in this tangle of emotions and direct contact drags me back into it. If it is a time where I am not available by email and you feel it is important, leave a message on my cell phone and I will take appropriate action. For emergencies in regards to DD13 and DD12, reach me by ANY means and I will do the same for you.
Thank you,
BS
~When we walk to the edge of all the light we have~And take the step into the darkness of the unknown~We must believe that one of two things will happen~There will be something solid for us to stand on~Or we will be taught to fly~Patrick Overton Got this in response: BS,
When you change plans from the routine that is in place. You need to contact me by e-mail,phone, or anyway possible I don't care,but I need to know that the girls are ok. I tried to call them on their cell phones,your house and your cell phone and got no answer. You changed the plan that we had set up. You didn't let me know they had been changed and for two and a half hours I didn't know if they were ok. NOW you need to be adult and a parent and keep me in the loop on these changes. I don't care what you do in your personal life, but I want and will know about my daughter's. You left me with no other option,but to call you at work. So I called you at work. I didn't ask anything else but where the girls are. Please give me the same courtesy that I'd give you if there were changes. This is a two way street if you would like me to give you notice on changes or anything else give them to me as while. I'm not asking you to give me anything here. I'm telling you that if you want it from me then give it yourself.
WH
My hopes were homeless things before I saw her eyes
O smile of Love, close not the door To paradise!
author Frank Sherman His quote at the end actually made me laugh. That is SOOOO not him. Poetry from a self proclaimed redneck. Came from his work email...think he puts that in his sig on his work emails or was that special for me? I had a few reasons for not notifying him that I was not bringing DDs in to his mothers. 1) How do I do so in Plan B without breaking my vow of silence? 2) I shouldn't have to tell him, it isn't during his visitation times. I do him a favor by taking them into his mothers. It's at my discretion whether or not to do the favor. Here is what I wanted to send him but will not: If it is necessary to alter your visitation times from what we agreed to, I will notify you. There was no change from your agreed to visitation pickup time of 2:45 on Mondays and Thursdays You called me at 9:30am asking where they were.....this is not within the agreed upon visitation schedule. YOU said you were not going to be done with work until 4:00pm - your mother does not have visitation rights with our daughters and I am not obligated to turn them over to her. She is doing YOU a favor, not ME. I was doing YOU a courtesy by dropping them off at your mother's house early in the morning so YOU didn't have to drive to their home to pick them up at 2:45 or whatever time ended up being convenient for YOU. That courtesy is over. Your transportation problems are yours. I will take DD12 to your mother's at 4:00pm today because I told her I would. I will expect her to be at XXX at 8pm tonight for the transfer.
If you can't reach the girls on their cell phones and they don't answer the home phone, that is YOUR problem. They were SLEEPING it is SUMMER VACATION! You had choices other than calling me.....you could have gone and checked on them or waited a reasonable amount of time for them to call you back...but that would take effort and you'd rather I make it easy for you. They are safe, or you would be notified. You weren't concerned with their safety last summer when you wouldn't come home night after night after night, wouldn't talk to them for DAYS. You ASSUMED they were okay with me then because your interests lay elsewhere. Or were getting laid elsewhere......Must be nice to pick and choose when you are concerned for the safety of our daughters and those times that you aren't concerned can just be forgotten by all.
My life and our daughters' lives are are wrapped up together. What is going on in their lives is a part of what is going on in my life. What is going on in my life is a part of what is going on in their lives. It can't be completely separated, we are what is left of a family that did not abandon each other. Each of us has an effect on the other. You can't split them in half and force them to lead two separate lives, one with me and one with you, that isn't fair to them.
Are we assuming that you are an adult and a parent......do adults and parents lie, sneak, cheat and destroy two families for their own "happiness" and "love"? Is this the lesson you as an adult and parent choose to teach our daughters? No wonder I can't agree with you.
You want the same courtesy that you would give me if there were changes? Did you really say that?! How about the numerous times you just decided it was your right to keep them and didn't give them or me any say? How about showing decency to your children and not introducing them to your lying, cheating, sneaking low life piece of ****** partner's family. No wonder you two like each other, you're exactly the same. She was bad enough, let alone forcing her world onto them. You hurt them incredibly that day (among many others)....and you don't know or care. How about giving them or me the courtesy of having a say when you destroyed our family? It is your right to do what you want with your life, but you need to realize.....you changed us all. You destroyed MY marriage and MY family. You destroyed the SAFETY and TRUST our children felt with US as a family. You destroyed DD13 and DD12 family. You forever altered the relationship BOTH of us have with our daughters. You TOOK these things from us without any say from us. YOU ROBBED US!!! YOU need to be a little more understanding when we are frustrated that WE didn't have a say in what happened in OUR lives. YOUR actions effected ALL of us. And WE are still adjusting to how this all is going to work and how we will still be able to protect ourselves from YOU.
How is that "telling me" working for ya? I believed in you for a long time, WH, I don't believe in this sorry excuse for a human being that you have become. You're in self-destruction mode and unfortunately you are forcing our daughters to be a part of it.
Leave me alone. I've finally found a place of comfort and confidence with myself and will do my best to help our daughters do the same, with or without you.
If it weren't for our daughters, I'd wish you a long, long, long relationship with your cheating partner. She is exactly what you deserve.
I show you a little decency (that you do not deserve) and ask you nicely for what I need....and you DEMAND more from ME.
BS Yup, lost my cool a little bit. I did not send it, just needed to get it out of my head and onto paper. My response to him? No response. Fox
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"I sound defensive again today even to myself and that is not how I mean to come across. Part of it is because I'm concerned I've been mostly ignored by vets for MONTHS (and crucial months) and now that I've gotten strong enough to post support on someone elses thread, I'm going to have vets come onto my thread, pick it apart with a fine tooth comb and "prove" to me that I have no right to say anything because I'm such a screw up."
THIS is exactly why I came to your defense Wild. I have often wondered why more of the "Vets" didn't take an interest in you when you needed it most. The "Vets" seem to act as though they have the market cornered on advice around here... that is open to debate in my mind, even they fail. They are not perfect, and most importantly, they are not PROFESSIONALS. They are people who have the desire to help others who have been down similar paths, but they don't necessarily have ALL the answers.
I don't want it to seem as though I think all Vets are bad, but just as you said I think sometimes they are so far out they forget what it's like to be "in the trenches" fighting for your life. They also use "tough love" as a cover for being pretty darn mean in some cases. If someone is crying "uncle" and you continue, you start to look like a bully.
Anyway, I hope you didn't mind me coming to your defense. I KNEW you could handle your own **edit***I just happen to like you a lot and couldn't help myself!!! I've seen you grow a lot and I know you've faught the good fight. I'm just concerned, like you, that now is too late for them to suddenly take an interest in you. Who knows... I could be wrong. But you are thinking it too...
*************edit****************
Last edited by Justuss; 07/06/07 05:48 PM.
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fcf ~ I will say it again, if you want to pick a fight with me, take it off Wild's thread.
Wild, I'll respond in a while, but right now I have to actually get some work done.
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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Wow... as I read it I was like I hope she didn't really send this! I bet it felt good to get all of that out... It's all SO TRUE. The thing is, he's so foggy, he won't get it.
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OOOOEEEEE!!!
I LOVE IT!
That must have felt GOOOOOD!
MB
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***Edit*******... my response was about Vet's in general. *******edit********************.
Last edited by Justuss; 07/06/07 05:46 PM.
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Fox:
I am a huge "let it all out through your fingers and onto the computer screen" fan. I find it a tremendous release, it helps me work through the emotions because I have to articulate them in words rather than just FEEL them. I always manage to keep my finger from pressing the send button (it's really not even close), but just imagining it feels good!
A response of silence is perfectly appropriate. He's just whining, probably wanting to drag you into a battle (and I think we've had quite enough of that here on MB lately) so he could make you the bad guy.
Yeah...what's up with that sig line??? My WH came up with one, too...something about standing up for what's right even when others tell you it's not right...puleeeze.
And, on a personal note...thank you...thank you...
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I do appreciate your defense, fcf. You've been here with me for a long time and I'm glad you have been. Sometimes, you were the only one. No offense to you Amigos, you were/are in the trenches at the same time and sometimes we just don't have the energy to check in with each other or feel like we have advice. I appreciate all of you so much that have stuck with me. Words are just not enough. I KNEW you could handle your own This, to me, is indicator of how far I've come. There were days when I post such as that would have reduced me to a puddle of tears. I already felt so worthless and unloveable and such a screw up, I could not have handled someone saying so. Or my perception of someone saying so. Alot of that came from being so terribly vulnerable and sensitive to every little nuance. Someone's intent on a post is hard to read, no body language, no tone inflections. Just the fact that I have something to say back indicates that I have come along ways from those initial days. I'm hoping to clean the slate a bit and start fresh. I'll do my best to put my sensitivity and defensiveness aside and be able to listen with an open mind. Nah, I didn't send that email. Got just a tad off the initial topic didn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I was going to send it, I stuck it in my draft box and let it ride for a little while. I reread it MANY times. Then I decided that he won't get it....he's looking for a fight and I won't give it. I'll admit to being partly wrong, I just didn't know how to handle it based on the parameters I set up. I guess the next time I have change the initial plan I will send the following email: "Change: DDs will be dropped off at your mother's at noon today" (or whatever the change will be) I just feel this invites dialog and I'm trying not to do that. And I don't feel that I have to answer to him. He has purposely undercut me in the last couple of weeks. On a few days I have told DDs that I will pick them up from MIL at noon and take them to lunch, then return them to MIL at 1pm. They were excited about the idea of going to lunch with me in the middle of a workday. DD12 told WH on each occassion that was the plan.....so he would go have lunch with them at 11am. Or his mother would make them lunch at her house at 11am. DDs specifically told them both what the plan was and they purposely undercut me. The days that I have not had lunch plans with DDs, WH doesn't even take a lunch, he works straight through. While staying silent has helped me get a grip on myself, it hasn't desolved all those thoughts and feelings that are inside me. They are buried a little deeper, but as you can see, dig at it just a little and it bursts to the top like Pandora's box. Fox
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Fox,
Good job not sending the other email. Good job writing it to get it out of your head, and posting it here is great.
I share your frustration about how to implement Plan B with kids. It's easy to say "just go completely dark," but that's not realistic with kids in the picture. It's really hard, and we do the best we can with it.
And because we can't go completely dark, we open ourselves up to being triggered by even a small communication. It's hard to know exactly what the trigger will be, but once it happens, it's off to the races. You caught yourself before sending the follow-up email, but I think you might have spared yourself some pain if you had not sent the email at all. Or, if you really felt the need to reiterate something, just leave it at the first two points.
You've heard me talk about this before, but for the sake of other listeners, Jennifer helped me see how getting triggered works. I'm starting to think of it as a Trigger Cycle.
--BS gets triggered (WS's are stupid, thoughtless creatures)
--BS reacts. Adrenaline rushes, emotions flare, and the desire to set things right takes over. We want to reach out to the WS and show them how they are wrong.
--BS contacts WS and calmly points out the error of their ways. WS, deep in fog, gets defensive and responds with FogSpeak. BS gets frustrated and hurt all over again.
or
--BS contacts WS and gives them a piece of their mind. DJs and all. WS thinks "See...I was right. WS really is the cause of my problems."
or
--BS contacts WS in any way. The WS has successfully engaged the BS and gotten some kind of interaction--seduced them into breaking their plan B.
There really aren't many positive outcomes for the BS when they reach out to the WS. It's why we're in Plan B. Jennifer advised me, when triggered and wanting to reach out, to ask myself: what do I hope to accomplish by contacting the WS? And, will the WS listen, given that they are a fogged-out zombie? Before asking those questions, though, remember to breathe.
I know that you already know all this stuff. The intellect side knows even while it's happening, but the emotional response is so powerful it's hard to resist. You know how I feel about you, mis amiga, so I hope you don't feel like I've turned on you. I still have a lot of hope for your marriage.
(((Fox)))
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Hey, Sis. I'm glad you're back. I was worried about you. I've been reading there but not posting as it has stayed on the same vein and I don't need to battle everyone right now. It was your thread and I was speaking directly to you. And then I got carried away defending to others what I said to you when they didn't agree. My bad... It'd be nice if we could input the perfect formula of x, y, z and "abracadabra" out pops the PERFECT MARRIAGE. But that's my only little fantasy. Hang tough, we're on the bumpy ride with you. The fighting gets tiresome sometimes but there is good dialogue in there if you can pick through it a little bit. And, on a personal note...thank you...thank you... Your welcome. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> By posting I hoped to give a few more words that may help people understand what you were feeling in the moment, from a different perspective. I'm glad I didn't overstep...I don't want to speak for you, but wanted you to know that you are not alone. I wasn't telling you what to do or how to do it. I don't know what is right or wrong in your situation. Heck, I don't even know what is right or wrong in my own. There's times when another poster, most often SL, would say EXACTLY what I was feeling when I couldn't find the words on my own. Reading those posts, I would thank "aha! That's it! That's what I'm trying to say!" and I was so grateful to not be alone. You sound strong, I'm glad to "see" it. Fox a couple new things today I will try to post. No direct contact from WH, just requests from him through DD13 for visitation. I told DD13 her and I would discuss it and then I will email WH to pin the plan down. I will post here so you all can help me fine tune.
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While staying silent has helped me get a grip on myself, it hasn't desolved all those thoughts and feelings that are inside me. They are buried a little deeper, but as you can see, dig at it just a little and it bursts to the top like Pandora's box. I'm calling this the Anger Bank. Maybe I'll talk with Jennifer about it.
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Guy Smiley, Nah, I don't feel as though you've turned on me. We good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You've made good points and you're right. That is exactly what happens to me in a triggers situation. what do I hope to accomplish by contacting the WS? It varies depending on what happened. What did I hope to accomplish yesterday? To stand up for myself and tell him I am sick to death of being f*cked over. When I don't respond, I feel like such a doormat. By continuing to let him walk all over me and make demands when I am doing him a FAVOR that he sees as his RIGHT, I feel like [email]cr@p.[/email] This could be interpreted to say I wanted to "show him" what a screw up he is and how devastating this is to all of us. By allowing him to walk on me and continue this treatment, I am telling him it is okay. It isn't. I need to add that this is not how our marriage was. We NEVER fought, we would get irritated with each other and both of us just shut up. I NEVER called him names or even really told him when I was hurting over something he had done. All those past frustrations are built up and now when I don't feel I have anything to lose, he is hurtful and I want to stomp him. I didn't...email wasn't sent. Just vented the frustrations that I'd like to give back to him. I know it won't be helpful, I know it won't mean a darn thing to him. What did HE hope to accomplish by emailing ME? My first email that I DID sent was meant as a resend of the PBL letter....restate the boundaries for speaking with me. I'll admit to trying to "teach" him what separation and divorce will be like with the comment about not having our finger on the pulse of our family anymore. Isn't part of Plan B about "showing them" what D will really be like. Why is it okay to "show them" in some instances and not others? Fox
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I'm calling this the Anger Bank. Maybe I'll talk with Jennifer about it. Please do, sdguy. I'd like to know what we are supposed to do with all that junk. It will never be helpful to let it loose on the waywards. But it has to go somewhere. Fox
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I'll admit to trying to "teach" him what separation and divorce will be like with the comment about not having our finger on the pulse of our family anymore. Ahhhhh, Fox, I totally did this. While not really in Plan B, at least not dark yet, ironing out the LSA and such, I would talk to PWC about this whole mess, and how me and DS had to ROLL with whatever punches he threw at his family. I'm actually tearing up a bit right now, thinking about that pain, that agonizing anger. About all of that anger, when in recovery (personal or marital), I still have nowhere to place it, but it begins to become part of the conversation, it begins to lead to answers as to how to avoid causing the anger in the first place, how to CARE for one another or yourself, in the case of personal recovery (boundaries, self care, attention to others and their needs, etc.). I used to compose emails to PWC, some scathing beauties, they were. Initially, after he left last summer, I would hit that send button. After really hunkering down in Plan B, I resisted. I still typed those suckers out, but did not hit SEND. That was MY ANGER BOX (my drafts folder).
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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Too bad the Anger Bank can't be filled with actual currency. We'd all be RICH! RICH, I tell ya! (Yosemite Sam, right??)
I DO NOT think you should see yourself as a doormat for not replying. My intermediary had fun with trying to come up with as few a words as possible to WH. Such as, "Fine." Even though she and I were having fits. How frustrating it must be to throw a little temper tantrum and have the response be "Fine" or "OK".
WH is sitting around right now, eagerly awaiting your pissy response. And he's not getting it. Fox ain't coming out to play today.
I loved the "pulse of the family" thing. Very accurate and well put. Doesn't mean he'll get it, but it is true. It must be that they don't CARE that they don't have the pulse of the family. As long as they've got their own pulse covered, it's all good. You and the kids are supposed to go right along with that. If he cared about the pulse of the family he wouldn't be trying to kill it off, would he?
So I guess that's where "showing him" doesn't work. He can stare right at the sky and say it's purple. He's just got everything upside down.
(we never fought, either, just the clothes in the hamper type stuff)
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Posts: 3,423
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,423 |
Thanks, SL, I'm glad you understand. I am just so (bleep)ing angry right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I don't know what kicked it off, there are so many factors and I've gotten to the end of my tolerance level.
Another phase of the healing, I guess. As long as I don't get carried away with it. I can't describe the depth of just how angry I am right now and how I just want to STOMP everything around me. I've never felt this before and I don't know a constructive way to channel it. I'm looking, just haven't found it yet.
I'll try to control my STOMPAGE around here, though. DDs are with WH for the weekend so they won't have to deal with it. Maybe I'll rip into a project where I can DESTROY something. GRRRR.
Fox
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 735
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 735 |
{{Wild}} I can totally understand why you are angry, everything you said in that unsent email is true. He's so full of entitlement he doesn't see it. He DOES want you to just make life easy for him, but the old wild is gone, she doesn't do that anymore. That's for Babs to do... and it doesn't sound like she is either! Gotta love it!
Someday, emotions won't be quite so high, and visitation will go more smoothly. You just have to make it thru till that time comes.
In the interest of keeping peace on your thread I've put BR on iggy. I don't want my feelings to get in the way of what could be help for you.
You, Lilsis, Bugsmom, & Strivn (sorry SL, I don't know your story as well, but I bet it still applies to you) have grown so much in the last year. You all really should give yourself kudos.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,871
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,871 |
sorry SL, I don't know your story as well, but I bet it still applies to you
SHAME ON YOU, FAMILYCOMESFIRST...
No, just kidding, really, my story is very similar in many ways and very different in others, just like every other person here.
Fox,
I meant to chime in on the 'doormat' thingy. It will peeve your WH to all get out to not receive an in depth email telling him why he is so wrong. He expects you to treat him like a child, and you do not; you expect him to act like an adult, and he does not. He is just waiting by the computer, the phone, the answering machine, waiting for your response, fuel for the flame. Taking that away, taking away his room to blame you, leaves him twisting in the wind, not knowing WHERE to place the blame, until, WHAM, it lands in his lap, like the sky is falling...
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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