My response to him:

With these email exchanges, I see BOTH of us handing out crumbs and BOTH of us eating them up.

I worry that he won't just see this as trying to co-parent with him, but more that I have accepted the situation and now everything is going to be fine. He'll keep Bab's and we'll be "friends" as co-parents.

How do I not let that line get crossed?

Here's the rest (I think we're done now)

His response:



My responnse:



And his.....

you are not required to manage his feelings or thoughts.

you just need to be the mom and the parent you need to be.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

While I understand this, BR. This is in direct conflict with what I have read elsewhere on this site.

I'm enabling his cake-eating ways by corresponding with him this way.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Fox

On the back and forth emails, I'm in the same place. I can see myself devolving into friendly co-parenting communication. Sometimes it takes effort to keep from doing it. I don't know what the answer is for you.


So, maybe this is me using my hammer because everything looks like a nail, but has WH ever been diagnosed with depression? That behavior sounds a lot like mine pre-DDay when I was under-medicated.

Hey wild... no advice but boy, your schedule is hectic these days! It will die down and you won't be exposed to your WH as much, which is a good thing... I think?

Right SD... that does sound like depression.

wild ~ who on this site says that you should manage his thoughts or feelings?

You can't.

There was nothing wrong with your exchange above.

You need to focus on being the best Mother and best Person you can be.

Stop trying to control the outcome (what he thinks or feels).

Hey, sdguy. He has never been diagnosed with depression. He does not believe in counselors and was pretty irate when I took DDs to one and the counselor asked him to come in also.

I think he was depressed. I couldn't reach him and he refused to get help, because he was "fine".

During our talks in December, I brought this up again. Kindly, like I was very concerned for him.

He agreed.

Then did nothing.

He's had stomache problems, ulcers, etc for years. Had chest paint while we were in California.

He went to the doctor on 2 occasions. They couldn't find anything really wrong. So he just ended up living with it.

My belief is that it was job stress, and alot of it. The job in California was REALLY stresfull. He liked it because it was demanding, but it took its toll, too. When those things couldn't be relieved, he sunk into depression.

Thanks, sdguy, for seeing this. I think you're right about the depression. If we ever get to Recovery, this issue may come up again. This will HAVE to be dealt with and I'll need some ideas on how to broach the subject.

Fox

F - frustrated
I - insecure
N - neurotic
E - emotional

I'm fine all the time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

SDguy is probably right about the depression...however, you can not and should not diagnose him.

Let's diagnose YOU instead.

Good Lord Fox! I think I would keel over trying to keep up with you!

All I did today was go to the park for an hour with DS, then to lunch, then grocery shopping. I'm exhausted. It is thick as soup outside today, though, and VERY HOT, so that's probably where my energy went.

BR has got your back now. Her intent is to help you, so remember that.

I'm pretty sure that PWC was depressed prior to the A's and still is depressed; difference is, this time he's including his family in his days and nights, keeping busy. It's a good thing.

Again, you could be talking about my situation.


Yeah...didn't mean to throw you off track. It just kind of jumped out at me.

Not those specific words, BR, but the same thing.

Otherwise, what do we care if we lovebust? It shouldn't matter what they think or feel about it.

Why should we try to make lovebank deposits? It shouldn't matter what they think or feel about it.

It isn't about them, it's about us, right?

I'm not trying to manage the outcome, just encourage one that is different than what I have been getting.



Agreed...but who's best? Who determines what is best?



This is why I'm confused! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> By not considering the outcome, I'm not considering a possible LB. I'm being encouraged to stop the lovebusting. Why? To get a different outcome.

Confused Fox

I desire to be someone that *I* respect and admire.

I respect and admire non-lovebusting behavior.

So to be the best person I can be, I can avoid disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts and independent behavior and dishonesty and all kinds nasty behavior that makes ME small and yucky.

I only need to control myself to do that.

*I* get to decide what kind of person I need or want to be.

I do not get to decide what kind of person my husband needs to be.

You need to LET GO of the outcome.

You can not control the outcome.

You can control YOU and by controlling YOURSELF, you can help create an environment for a desireable outcome to be possible.

See the difference?

But things that are a lovebuster to H would not necessarily be a lovebuster to me and vice versa.



So does this make you right, or married?

Is that statement self-righteous?

I thought I was a pretty decent person. I was, for the most part, happy with myself. My DDs are happy with me.

Something was off between H and I. So I think if I want him in my life, I have to recognize how HE saw things. And then consider them.

The ultimate decision of how I want to be is up to me, but there are outside factors from the people in your life influcne this decision.

Fox:

(Since this is my first post to you, can I be this personal?)

I read your thread from the beginning a while ago. (2 months?) and I got to about page 60.

And wondered how I could help. You even placed a call out on Lilsis, or Bugs thread. Still not sure how I can help.

I have read the last two days.

BR is really trying to help here. The length of your thread indicates that something is going wrong.

I would recommend that you go back to Plan A. Your Plan B has been porus and not dark at all.

BR's post fro yesterday, had many of the things I was thinking about when I read it two months ago, but BR puts it together so elequently.

I would really like to say that you should go back to a serious Plan A.

Call him up and tell him you need to do lunch.

And then be forthright with him.

You HAVE grown from this.

You need to really lay down the Plan A and then get visitation and other kid arrangement settled, so that you can have an EFFECTIVE plan B.

You are in effect co-parenting now, NOT in Plan B.

So please, think it through.

I DO NOT know what is up with your H. He may be an awful lot like LilSis's. Just cannot make that choice to fix this.

Or to finalize it.

Fox:

You are in one heck of a pickle. And WH ain't helping. But BR hit the spot in many ways.

What has been happening isn't working, time to make some strategic changes. Not tactical, but strategic.

Just my .02

LG

This is the same thing to me. By helping to create an environment for a desireable outcome to be possible, I am attempting to manage the outcome.

By letting go of the outcome, I am not considering that my actions can effect the outcome.

wild ~ you don't really need to understand him. The need to understand him is only so you can control him.

You need to understand you.

If you are OK with you - then I would ask: "How's that working for you?"

You can only control you, so you need to understand YOU.

You see...this idea that the problem is not you, H is screwed up is where YOU are being right and definitely not married.

Remember what I said on LilSis's thread?

Motivation is EVERYTHING.

You can not control the outcome. You can simply create an environment where a outcome is possible.

You can not force your spouse to have an affair.

Your spouse can not foce you to have an affair.

You can create an environment where your spouse is vulnerable to an affair.

Your spouse can create an environment where you are vulnerable to an affair.

You can not make your husband choose to be faithful.

Your husband can not make you choose to be faithful.

The environment does not control the choice. It simply makes the choice possible.