exactly h&p

and throwing any person into an intimate "sponsor" position is exactly the recipe for disaster IMO.

Just checking in on you...wanting to know that you ARE okay!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

DA - you said that he doesn't have any male friends to take to AA with him. So what? Why doesn't he do what most people do and make (male) friends there? If he flat out refuses to go without a friend or family member--don't you have any men in your family?

DON'T let him go with your female relatives! This sends him the completely wrong message about how gullible you are! If someone added a poll to this thread, I think you'd find that virtually everyone here can see the danger of letting your husband go anywhere alone with anyone female. An AA sponsor, someone who he can call when he needs someone to talk to or help him through, is an intimate relationship, so it should NOT be a woman!

I agree with whoever pointed it out that a man with no healthy boundaries and no respect for you (proven by his having sex with your mother!) is dangerous to your daughters, too, either now or in the future.

As for your mom, if she's an alcoholic then she's not really your mom at all right now. But if she changes and stays sober for a period of time (years), then I'd say it might be worth a try for the sake of the fact that she's your mother.

Even though this is a Marriage Builders site, there are times when it is so far gone that even if it could be saved it's not worth it. The moment he had sex with your mother marks that moment for me without a fraction of a doubt.

Definately agree here. He simply can't tell his deepest darkest secrets with your sister or any other woman, and he needs another MAN to identify with. Being a good sponsor takes up a lot of personal time, I know because I use mine! I call at least 2-3 times a day and meet 3 times a week with him.

Well, I just wanted to update on what was going on with me. Mu husband has been attending AA and counseling. My "mother" is a lost cause. She has changed her story of what happened so many times, I could not care about her any less than I do right now. Claims she was forced, I saw and it in no way was forced. As I once heard, just because you regret it does not constitute rape! Well, we are trying to get our marriage back on track and its a process but we are slowly making our way back. Yes, sending him with my sister (or another woman) was a dumb idea. He actually asked me to go with him and it has helped a lot. He has a sponsor and that man is wonderful. He also ran into someone he worked with and the man offered to be an ear for him when he is craving a drink. He has been understanding of the fact that it will take time for me to trust him again, which makes it easier to express my concerns about relapses. I know many think I must be insane to work on a marriage that has been violated in this way...but I think we actually might make it. This is a great forum and I appreciate everyones insight and advice. It means a lot to me to be able to get other points of views without having to inform my family of what happened. Nobody in my family knows about this and I would like to keep it this way. So far I have not been proven wrong in giving us a chance, so I guess time will tell. Thanks again for your support.

Also, I did not notice the other questions asked on here. Firstly, he has been sober since that day and continously tells me how difficult it is. Wont even carry cash on him to ensure he does not have the funds if the craving is that bad (no ATM, C/C or cash, and YES I am sure he has no funds)The male/female relationship does not work most of the time. I have heard it, and personally experienced it with male friends. I think the person a wife/husband should be confiding is...is the spouse! A friendship, in my opinion, is a major part of a marriage. For the drinking, I know his male sponsor is the best person for him to discuss the drinking with. I now know that no matter how much I love him, I cannot understand his addiction and therefore I cannot help him the way he needs to be helped. Look forward to reading your opinions.

I now know that no matter how much I love him, I cannot understand his addiction and therefore I cannot help him the way he needs to be helped.

Love has nothing to do with knowledge. Go to Alanon to understand addiction, read up on addiction books, read up the AA book (the Big book), etc to understand addiction. Listen and listen, you will understand his addiction. Just being there, encourage him seeking treatment and put a boundry to protect you and your kids that's all the help that you should/could give.

I just want to point out that if he craves and has to choose between you and his bottle ... you are most likey loose. It has nothing to do with will power or love to you !.

-rh-

He is trying to control the cravings. Even his sponsor told him that the desire will not go away, but he will learn how to walk away. The road is not easy, but its not impossible either. They have all told him that he is very lucky to have me standing by him and if it does not change that I, like most women, will walk away. In a sense I understand the addiction. What I meant is that I cannot understand being so dependant on something and knowing that it will destroy my life...yet still doing it. I have not had any addictions therefore cannot understand 1st hand what he is experiencing. It just took me a long time to see that I cannot save him, which was my initial desire. he needs to save himself and change for himself or it will not last. I think saying no to drinking has alot to do with will power. If it has nothing to do with that, then how can someone stop doing it? How do you gain control of your desires?

darkangel,

I know you must love this man something awful. You love him enough to be patient and supportive while he fights alcoholism. You love him enough to suffer through the pain of reliving the sight of him having sex with your mother over and over.....and all the betrayal on both sides that represents. You love him enough to make excuses for him. You might even love him enough to enable him to continue to make destructive choices....even though that's the last thing you want. Love is funny that way.

So, do I think you can save your marriage? Yes, I do. But a more relevant question <for me>....is whether I think you should. I am a staunch advocate of marriage....but I believe there are some marriages that should not be saved. There are some betrayals that are too primal, deep and do so much damage that for someone to commit that kind of betrayal....they must be damaged too.

Personally.....I would recommend the strictest of conditions for reconciliation in this instance:

*Complete a period of intense individual counseling....no less than six months. Sexual addiction, alcohol addiction and lack of conscience would be some of the things to explore in therapy.

*Continue AA (and possibly SA) and be sober for six months.

*Demonstrate consistently over time....that he is truly committed to the long term work this will require by working at the marriage without complaint..

*Do 100 hours of community service.

*Find a spiritual counselor to help get back on track morally, ethically and spiritually.

Until that foundation of trust could be built....the odds of success are not in your favor. If you have to threaten or push him to get help....give up now. He's either going to step up....deeply flawed, but deeply motivated....or he'll whine, complain, procrastinate, let you do all the work, relapse and not experience real remorse and growth. You're here....he isn't....that tells me something.

And in the end....even if he overcomes the alcohol problem....he can never undo such a cruel betrayal....never. When the OP is a relative....it compounds the problems...therefore, conditions for reconciliation are MORE stringent...not less. Crying like a baby, begging etc...doesn't mean a damn thing if he can't do what needs to be done without prompting or hand-holding.

I once told my husband "If what you did doesn't destroy our relationship....my reaction to it will". Can you really forgive? Or will this monster rear it's ugly head every time there's an argument?

star*fish...I understand competely what you are saying. Initially, I was threatening and helping him along. After I came to this board, it changed my approach completely. He is not being pushed into doing what he is doing right now. He has CHOSEN to work on fixing the marriage. We have open and brutally homest conversations about what is going on and the process we will have to go through in order to save our marriage. At a point in time, I WAS making excuses for him. That time is gone! I refuse to enable him to abuse me and our marriage. For some reason, I am not reliving this moment continously in my mind anymore. As for my "mother", she was not ever a real mother to begin with. You ask why I am here and he is not. There are a couple reasons for that. First, I asked him to let me have this for me because I need to know that I can heal and get advise without him checking up on what people are telling me to do. Second, he is not a computer person. Cannot really navigate the internet that well. He has done all the work in order to get our marriage back on track. I will work with him, but I will NOT be the one pushing it. If he wants to save our marriage, I need to SEE him try...not tell me he will. Words are not enough! Sorry is not enough! I need to see him trying to do better. No threats about one more drink and I am gone. I told him that I understand this is hard and if he cannot do it, I understand. But I also told him that both me and our children deserve a good life and if it cannot be with him (as I would like) then it will have to be without him. He has actually been sober since this happened and been very supportive when it comes to family (his and mine) not bringing alcohol into our home. Time will show his true desire to change, but as of yet he has not given me a reason to believe he will relapse again. Time will tell! He is starting to TRULY see what his drinking has done to his life and our life as well. Suprisingly (to myself more than anybody) I have not brought this issue up at all in arguements. If I CHOOSE to forgive, then I must do just that. I cannot forgive and throw it in his face constantly as a reminder of what he did. Thank you for your advice and I would like more if you have any to offer.

Well, my "mother" is moving away for a while to "get help". I hope she does, but cannot bring myself to truly care. Things are still going well with hubby and hope they continue that way. My life actually seems happier. Hope things only get better along the way. a million thanks for all your support. It means a lot to have somewhere other than my hubbt, to turn to. god bless all of you wonderful people.

Glad that you gave an update, and that things are going well. It is good to hear success stories. Did your hubby stop drinking?

Yes the drinking has stopped...he struggles with it a lot but the incident was the last straw for him. Made him realize that continuing that was going to cost him more than just his health. Has had a couple times that he bought it but poured it out and told me, then we would discuss it and he felt better. He feels like he can tell me without me flipping out which is nice. Now my mother has convinced herself that she was forced into it. My concern is that she will start talking and I have no desire to have my family thinking my husband is a rapist. Like I said, just because you regret it, does not constitute rape. I hope she gets help but I worry that she is going to start spreading her lies and manipulations. Not even her best friend believed her, she called me to get the "real story" I dont know, I guess one day at a time is all I can do. I mean I SAW what happened and my eyes gave me the REAL story...all I needed to know was what led to it! Thanks again!

I am so sorry for your trauma. The triple impact of your situation is very, very serious. Drinking is no EXCUSE. There is no JUSTIFICATION for what happened.

The drinking issue is the tip of iceberg.

You may want to discuss your situation with a Sexual Assault Center. You deserve a tremendous amount of focused professional care. Compassionate understanding & supportive qualified guidance.

Huggs, may your VOICE be heard. May your hand/heart be held & healed. May you find those to truly stand beside you. Courage and prayers be with you.


Here's a link that might be helpful or do a search in your area.


RAINN is beginning the pilot phase of its National Sexual Assault Online Hotline to help and support victims of sexual assault who may be unable or unwilling to use the national telephone hotline.


http://www.rainn.org/programs/online-hotline/index.html

Forgot to add. Wanted you send you a bouquet of virtual flowers. You really deserve them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take a peek. Hope it brightens your day jist a tiny bit.

http://www.800florals.com/virtual2/T1202.htm

Thanks for the flowers, sweet gesture. Well, I hope hings continue on the right path. thanks for your kind thoughts and words

Your most welcome! I truly hope so! The right path is always the right path but so narrow.

I felt so heartbroken for you! Look how courageous you are in taking ahold/bold steps to break inter-generational bondages!

My prayers are for you. May your heart/soul find Power/Healing/Freedom!