Okay guys - I finally met the OC (a couple of weeks ago). My H's son by OW. I think I did really well. I was nervous and uptight - but other than "cringing" when my H kissed on him and worrying how our D was reacting to this - I think I did pretty good. We also had to meet OW to drop of OC and we acted civil (although extremely fake). How else am I suppossed to act?<P>My latest thing is - I found out AGAIN that my H has lied to me about talking to OW. I find out yesterday she has called him on his cell phone and I ask him point blank "have you talked to OW since we kept OC?" No, he says, why? Okay - after the whole scenario - I find out that she called 'cause she wants us to keep OC tonight for a few hours. (which is okay). But he still "doesn't get it" that him "keeping stuff from me" is why I freak out. He also told me that the OC is having to have tubes put in his ears on Monday and she was letting him know in case he wanted to be there, etc. He asks her last night on the phone if his mother knew and she said she assumed so. <P>THEN THE REAL DEAL - my H's aunt (who is a nurse at an ENT) got him into her office to have him checked out and has been having a relationship with OW. Am I just the most bitter self-centered person in the world . . . 'cause this really bothers me! Why don't they just freakin' roll out the red carpet for her! Why do they (my H's mom and sister) have to have a "relationship" with OW? I am so jealous of that. It's like they are doing it behind my back and to me it's like they are saying "yeah, we know what havoc you wreaked on the family and the pain you've caused our 2 loved ones" but since you gave birth - then you're okay in our books! Please - help me deal with this - I was up all night crying - to me it's just what OW needs to get her claws in a little deeper into the whole family. Is anything of mine sacred? I just have so much pain.<P>------------------<BR>

Daycare<BR>I've been wondering how it went.<BR>I think you are making progress. Sometimes it's so small you don't see it.<BR>unfortunately we are responsible for making it comfortable to tell the truth. So even if he doesn't tell you right away, try to be very calm if he does volunteer information. Even after the fact. Tough I know!!!!<BR>As far as his family goes. do you suppose they feel sorry for the OW because of her age? I know that doesn't make it any better but is it possible?<BR>maybe you should let them know that it makes you feel uncomfortable. Perhaps they don't even realize you feel this way.<BR>Try to keep your chin up!!!! Keep reminding yourelf of the good things. How far you've come.

And remember your value.<P>Perhaps you should take away the excuses for her to call your husband, by you calling HER, and inquiring how the child is doing. <P>Yeah, it's fake, but you could outsmart her.<P>Take more interest in the child than H does, and you be the one to fill in husband on everything.... Pretty soon if the relationship is over, she will be dealing with you instead of him, which is what you want, right?<P>I don't know, but that is exactly what I would do. I would give no excuse for contact, whatsoever. However, painful it would be.

You guys are giving me some good things to think about. I swear there are some days that I would like to just "throw in the towell" and say - this is just now worth it! But then there are days that I think it is. We kept the OC last night. Everything went okay. I actually like the little guy. We took him to our house this time and my H called his mother and asked if she wanted to come over (he didn't tell her who was there). She came over and was literally SHOCKED! She said, "Honey you are so sweet - I can't believe your sweet heart - and she burst into tears, saying I was so sweet, etc. etc." I guess I really saw how much it means to her to have me accept this child - which is okay (I can deal with that, now). But I do need to let them know how much any inkling of a relationship with OW bothers me. Perhaps they know that since the child is so young - they have to talk to her - I don't know - it just makes me nauseous to think she is gonna be treated like part of the family. I guess communication is the key.<P>------------------<BR>

When you assume the role of the 'go between' with OW and OC, then the family will prefer to deal with you concerning OC.<P>I think you have an opportunity here to really deposit love units, and eliminate OW basically from the equation. The OC is yours, basically if you keep working in this way. Your MIL and H's aunt will come to you for information about child. It won't be necessary for OW to be in the loop at all.<P>Good for you, I'm glad that MIL shared how important you can be in this situation for her and OC.<P>God Bless,<BR>M4B

I'm glad I found this post, I read it when it was first posted and lost it.<P>You may not like what I have to say.<P>I am in the EXACT same position as you H. I have a D by OW (before I got married). My W was very supportive of me and my D. She grew to love my D very much. She "tried" not to complain when I had contact with OW regarding D. Now I wish she had.<P>Due to the nature of the relationship with OW,(me having to see her so often) I ended up in a one night stand with her And I've hated myself ever since.<P>I don't blame my W for my indiscretions, but by golly if she had thrown a fit, we would have argued then and saved alot of grief later. Tell your H this. Tell him what I said.<P>My OW was constantly trying to rekindle a relationship with me even though I did not see it. My W saw it, I did not. See it Daycare, see it.<P>Two weeks ago I finally told mt OW that we did not need to see each other anymore (the affair happened 2 years ago). We can still exchange our D without us having excessive contact. She reluctantly agreed that we could exchange her through our parents.<P>This may sound bad, but is it worth a marriage? It didn't colapse my marriage by itself, but it sure didn't help.<P>Good luck and I definitely will think of you.

Okay guys:<P>Wasstubborn: I guess since the OW recently turned 21 and (my H and I are 35) they "could" be being nice to her because she's so young, etc. My H's family is EXTREMELY CLOSE. It's like when one bleeds they all run with a bandaid. (which I do like that). However, I don't think they are capable of separating her from the OC. It's like they are a package unit (in their eyes). How can I get them to see that without sounding like a selfish "*&*)#(".<P>Mush Brains: You're right - I would rather her deal with me. I even "strongly recommended" that to my H - to no avail. He feels sorry for OW and why would she want to talk to me - she wasn't in a relationship wtih me, etc. etc. I can easily be fake with her and call, etc. (actually we were once close at one time - she was my child's daycare provider); however, I think she would not go for that. How could I do it without making it so comfortable for my H and she to have a relationship behind my back (again). That's what I did the first time around. I would convince myself that "surely" they couldn't be doing anything since we would all do stuff together, etc. - but yeah - suprise! Also, I have a problem that you might know how to address - my MIL goes to see the OC at OW's parents house (where she lives) during the day with just OW and OC. She will (even through no fault of her own) develop a relationship with OW. My MIL is very outgoing - loving - and it will just happen. I talked to my INternist re: this situation and he said "MIL should only have contact with OC when H has child" No other contact (resulting in relationship with OW). I even told her this - and she said "well, I don't really deal with OW - I deal with OW's mother" which is a lie - cause OW doesn't work and her mother does and she is the only one home then.<P>Paul Moyers: I'm glad you told me what you did! It didn't upset me -- it just confirms what I already think and feel. That OW still wants to have a relationship with my H (not only for the betterment of her son's relationship with my H) but for her own selfish needs. She was deeply in love with him. (I have yet to figure out how he feels about her) - but they had an "emotional relationship" as well as a physical one. Now that they have a child together - only makes matters worse, in my opinion. He feels bad that he's not "there" for her (like he is for me) when she needs "help" with the child, etc. etc. That just makes me want to puke. Don't these people have to suffer for what mistakes they've made? And since my inlaws are rolling out the red carpet for her (she feels like her foot is already in the door). I did pitch a fit (like you wished your W had) and forbid him to talk to her - that all dealings with the child would go through me, etc.) So what I got out of that deal was for the past 8 months he lied and saw the OC anyway and (I believe) had my D around them as well (behind my back). Since that approach didn't work - I decided to try the "helpful wife" approach - deposit love units - by being a "stepmother" to his child (no matter how much it killed me) and hope then that he wouldn't lie to me. He is still lying to me! And he doesn't think that OW could possibly "think" that he and she would ever have a relationship! (yeah right) I don't know if he is that stupid, naieve - or is trying to throw me off track (again). I don't trust OW at all. I just feel like EVERYONE involved here are doing things behind my back and I'm on a constant "fishing expedition" trying to find out what's going on!<P>------------------<BR>

Well, H isn't serious about POJA. <P>Can't do anything about MIL or aunt, all you can do is try and understand and try to be understood.<P>Has your husband read any of the material on the site? On the first pages of the website here, there is something on blended families. The key to success is a successful POJA Policy of Joint Agreement. <P>In case number 1, both the wife and husband are willing to follow POJA, and will use negotiating techniques to arrive at POJA. They were on to a successful marriage, raising happy children.<P>In case number 2, only the wife wanted to follow POJA, and the husband wouldn't. Dr. Harley suggested separating - until the children were grown.<P>But in your case, you have to do Plan A, or Plan B, until you have a 100% commitment to the marriage - and an agreement of POJA to deal with this.<P>This is why I am suggesting that you take all the initiative with stepson. (Plan A with your husband, no lovebusters and meeting his needs.) Call MIL, and say - Gee, do you feel like visiting OC today? Well, shall we do this together, or should I arrange to pick him up and come to your house, or would you like to come to mine?<P>I mean, do EVERYTHING you can to accomodate and leave no opportunity for contact with your husband. <P>OW will get sick of this!!! GOOD! Then she will be the bad guy, not you.<BR>

Daycare: I don't care who you listen to or who's advice is the best, take M4B's, wasstubborns, mine, who cares but do whatever it takes to GET HER OUT!<P>GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT!!!!!!!<BR>voice of panic here, sorry<P>Some may not agree, but the mere thought brings up such fear and dread in my heart that I can not explain.<P>I'm sure some advocate having a ggod relationship with a child's other parent if you are one of the parents (your H) but I say no relationship is a good relationship.

M4B's - Thanks you're giving some things to think about - definately! As for my H seeing anything here - I printed out all the "good stuff" when I first found this site- and tried to simply "read the highlights" to him (he hates to read anything). At first he tried to listen - but as soon as anything steps on his toes - he backs up and says "how does this guy know? He doesn't know me - he doesn't know you- he is not IN our situation, so how in the world could he possibly know what is best for Us?" I just always come to a dead end. He was the same way when we went to counseling. It made me feel better to know that I wasn't wrong in my suspicions or the way I felt, but he just lied and told the counselor what she wanted to hear and when it got to where she was really stepping on his toes- he didn't want to go back.<P>So I guess - no matter what "agreement" I offer - he tells me on the surface "sure, that's fine, we'll do that." and then I think that is what we're doing - until some evidence shows up that we're not and then he says "well, I didn't want to do that to start with - I thought it was very selfish on your part, etc. etc." and he think that justifies him in the fact that he didn't abide by it. It's like we can't EVER AGREE TO AGREE! He likes to "have the upper hand" - and therefore I don't know if I'm fighting a losing battle with him or not. I almost think he has a problem with "lying" that he can't even control.<P>That's why Mr. Paul Moyers is probably right - no matter how much I want to think he may be over his "feelings for OW", the way he lies like its 'no big deal' - they may very well be carrying on business as usual. She may be that desperate - and he's having his cake and eating it too. I can't stop myself from asking "did OW call you today?"<P>------------------<BR>

Daycare: I DO speak from experiance and I DO know what your situation is. I was in the EXACT same spot as your H. We're different people yes, different situation no.<P>I am a God fearing man that before I married would never have dreamed of an affair in my marraige. I strayed TWICE!!! Once from my wife and once from God. Never again.

I understand that frustration, for sure. He's not 100% committed to the marriage yet. He IS vulnerable to the OW. You can't completely trust him yet. He hasn't decided in his heart what he wants.<P>In my opinion, you need to stay away from lovebusters, and really plan A this to the max, or go to plan B. <P>I really don't see any other way you can have resolution with someone without 100% commitment, and he won't follow POJA, or the rule of honesty. <P>I am sooo sorry. You have to be very committed to no lovebusters, okay? And asking him IF he contacted OW is wrong. I am suggesting YOU do the contacting, daily if necessary, to remove the "excuse to contact her."<P><BR>

M4B: I agree to an extint, he should have no contact. Daycare on the other hand could possibly grow to resent him for putting her in that situation. My W was all for it at first, but as time passed she came to resent it deeply. (of course I didn't know that then)(actually she told me but I blew it off ) She never had hard feelings towards my D, but she started hating the OW more and more. Most of that was my fault.<P>Perhaps since MIL is so enamoured with them the exchanges and info can come through her? Just a suggestion. Why should another couple walk the path that's already been walked and should have been road blocked!

Okay, so asking him if he's talked to her is a Lovebuster? I know it bugs my H, but I would just "assume" that if you had nothing to hide - why would it bother you? Just wondering - not claiming to know anything.<P>As far as calling OW - I don't know if I could be that fake. I would do it - but I still feel like my H would call her too - even if to say "why is my W calling you and what do you two talk about?" I can think of any "good scenario" and I will tell you exactly what "I think" my H will do.<P>Moyer I also had suggested that my MIL be the contact (which she gladly agreed to do), but my H is very strong-willed and it's almost like (you're not going to TELL me what I'm going to do, ya da ya da ya dada) He will do it just for spite! Even if we "agreed" that MIL was contact - I don't feel like he would stick to it. RGHGHGHGHGHH this is so frustrating. That is why I ask "did you talk to OW today?"<P>------------------<BR>

Is your husband named Paul Moyers? Because he sounds just like him. Controlling, strong-willed, set in his ways, etc. I met Mr. Moyers for the first time this past month. Boy is he a jerk. My wife introduced me to him when she left. Ever since then Mr. Moyers and I have had many talks and prayers with God, and with his grace Mr Moyers the jerk will become Paul Moyers, kind, respectful, generous, loving husband that wife deserves.<P>I pray no disaster causes Mr Daycare to meet Mr Daycare.<P>

Mr. Moyer: are you indeed my H? (you actually added a good laugh to my day) not at your expense actually. Seriously - if you are so much like my H, can you tell me - do you think it will take him "hitting rock bottom" (apparently like you have - - - although I don't know your whole story). I feel like you can shed some light on my H and how to best deal with him. Bless, your heart - I hate that you are at the point where you are at - and I am so thankful to know that you have some remorse. I don't know that I have ever seen very much "genuine" remorse from my H. I ache for it so badly. I feel like that would be the beginning of our healing. Oh well - any input you have would be wonderful. I'll try to go and read your posts.<P>------------------<BR>

Daycare: Sitting here reading what you write about your H with no remorse...makes me truly sad. My story is full of heartache. This is the part that directly concerns you.<P>After I cheated on my W I felt bad, I feel completely sick about it now. Why? Because then I didn't feel bad about my W feelings. (she didn't know until two years later) But instead I felt bad because I had betrayed my upbringing. I had let myself, my all-powerful self, get weak. The part where I didn't care for my wife's feelings is what makes me sick now.<P>It was not until my W left that I saw what I had become. Contempt for others' feelings, sorrow on the surface but not in my heart where it counted, cold, jaded. When all this happened God brought the mighty down to his knees, and further.<P>I no longer walk a proud walk or talk a proud talk. I am a shell of what I used to be. Hopefully God will fill this shell with His presence.<P>Hopefully there will never be a need for your husband to hit rock-bottom.(It took my wife leaving) I pray that you can help him see what this can do and prevent it from ever happening.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited October 07, 1999).]

Daycare,<P>Your husband and you have a "no contact" rule, right? But he feels the rule is made to be munipulated - on the grounds of the OC. So, you know and he knows that it is an opening for a fight if you ask if he contacted OW, right? <P>Whether it is right or not, it isn't the point. Your husband will <I>perceive</I> it as an attack, lovebuster - because you've even asked. <P>He only told you there would be no contact to appease you. He doesn't want you to have any input over this. He is one stubborn kinda guy, proud, and selfish, and he doesn't see the benefit of giving up contact with the OW.<P>It is truly a frustrating situation, again the only thing you can do at this point is plan A or plan b, without a 100% commitment to the marriage. <P>I might say that your plan A has been working, even with some of the lovebusters.

I have great sympathy for you!!!! I have been dealing with In laws, OW and OC and it sucks bad!!! My MIL told me today that she is so frazzled that she will not invite ANYONE over for the holidays this year, so that she doesn't have to feel like she's choosing...<P>Can't my H see whats he's doing to everyone? I am really beginning to think there is some serious brain damage going on here? YOU THINK????? <P>cozy

Cozy,<BR>I have a diagnosis. <BR>I think it is MushBrain Syndrome, (MBS).<P>Still trying desperately to find a cure.<P>DAYCARE DISASTER:<P>Listen do ALL you can do to prevent any contact between OW and H, and keep on doing the best plan A or plan B you can. <P>Your plan A has been working, so your behavior still influences his behavior. You can keep going, we'll encourage you to do so.<P>God Bless you.<BR>M4B<BR>