Keep Movin.... your post goes way too far. Just like it is not ridiculous for Dr. P to say that certain details are harmful and should be avoided as to prevent further injury (his opinion)... it is also not ridiculous for Dr. H to suggest that the BS has a right to have all their questions answered. They are in different camps on this to be sure... but both have merit. But you put the WS and the BS on an even playing field and frankly, they are not. The WS is the one that needs to make amends as they are the one that put the M in the [email]cr@pper.[/email] The WS is the one that needs to eventually bend to the needs of the BS... because frankly, the WS has created a situation where their needs come in a distant second in this phase of recovery.
I don't think deatils are NEEDED for everyone to heal. I think they are needed for some and not for others. The amount of detail can be debated here... Dr. Phil suggests a more general approach (leaving out certain things like penis size, positions, etc), Dr. H suggests a more open approach. Most on this site go with Dr. H, (and then change their mind when they find out he thought otherwise... as if having an independant thought would kill them) and rightfully so... he has a track record. But there are other approaches. We really believe Dr. H to be more successful than others (of course that is not based on objectively reported evidence... just what is reported on this site by a man that previously taught statistics) but that does not mean that other approaches are to be dismissed with prejudice. Dr. H has proven he can get results in some marriages and few doubt his success.

People need to use common sense as well as a plan that they are comfortable with. The MB plan is not for everyone. It requires a lot of a BS at a time when they MAY be least able to give anything. But the results can be great as evidenced by some couples represented on these boards.

Infidelity is a difficult topic. Emotions run high...outcomes are iffy at best (even here). Any and all information that can be useful to help a marriage or even a person recover from this assault should be considered.

And I have to say that in all my time at MB... this ranks int he top 5 for the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.

Uh oh. I think I just caught a waft of aquanet...


Who would that be pray tell...

I think I'll take my chances with Dr Harley rather than Dr Phil - possibly in an affair marriage and had an affair in 1998. UM yep. I'll stick with Dr Harley who is still married and in love with his first wife.

OK always like a point of agreement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MEDC, keepmovnfrwd is an angry, embittered troll that only comes on this board to spread his hate and anger and condemn other board members. He doesn't come to help, but to harm. He has a particular hatred, for some bizarre reason, against Mortarman, and was actually edited and LOCKED last month for his screeds against him. Just click on his name and go back and read his hatefilled diatribes. He is just a troll.

yep, me too... as I have said numerous times. I just don't dismiss others so readily.

Also appears that you have some info on Dr. Phil that no one else has regarding his current marriage.

As far as the Aquanet... it's not one person here... there are quite a few that think that just because Dr. H might say something it is Gospel. It reminds me of a discussion here with Suzet and the reply she was awaiting and eventually got from Dr. H. As I said all along back then... if he comes back and says her actions were okay (as Suzet reported) I would tell him right to his face he was dead wrong. Everyone can learn and everyone can make mistakes. It's human nature.

I see that and hence my comment about his post. It really was quite out there.

You do a web search and you can find dirt on anyone. Doesn't make it true. Heck, there could be people out there reporting that Dr. H has had an affair... or illegitimate children. Doesn't make it true. One thing I learned as a cop was to be skeptical of information in the press and to use my eyes and ears to make assessments.

Oh no, not necessarily "gospel," but very high respect after hearing him support and substantiate his opinions with facts, evidence and reason in an intelligent manner for years. When you watch someone who is consistently intelligent, insightful and usually right, you develop a confidence. Not a "gospel," but a firm respect based on long history.

MrsW posted the link and article above MEDC. I have no special knowledge. I also said his second marriage is Possibly the result of an affair given the timings.

Actually I quite like Dr Phil as it happens. But I have no idea what his approach is for marital recovery. In fact there are so many experts on adultery but precious few with any credible plan of recovery from it. That is what I like about Marriage Builders. Anyone can do an autopsy but Dr Harley seems to be the only one I have found who can do a resurection.

MEDC, that is very, very profound. I've always respected you because, even though you gave me a hard time you were gracious and honest with me, never twisted what I said, you judged on the facts. I'm like Believer, I sometimes agree with you, sometimes I don't. But your integrity is faultless, absolutely faultess.

BK, I got your possibly the first time. My point is... do you think that by tomorrow there could be a link posted here to discredit Dr. H.... sure there could be. It doesn't make it true... that is my point. Throwing it out there is your way to discredit the man. Dr. H stands tall without knocking down someone else. That's what both you and ML have missed here. Dr. H has shown himself to be knowledgeable in dealing with infidelity. Just because someone else has another approach does not take away from Dr. H's expertise. He is far from perfect and we really don't know what % of marriages benefit from his program... but he definitely helps some people. Dr. Phil... like him or not helps some people. I just like to take in the best that everyone has to offer and use my brain to decide what fits into my life and my moral code.... so that I do not become so enamoured with any person... but the ideals that they express today. So that if the person falls tomorrow... as many do... I am not left wondering what my house is built on. JMHO.

That is the greatest compliment I can be paid. Thank you.

OK MEDC - you know you're in trouble when KiwiJ agrees with you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, FWIW, as an FWW, Dr Phil's Relationship Rescue book was one of the first I turned to, along with HNHN, to recover my marriage. I knew if I could meet all the requirements and the extremely good "recovery" processes (exercises to do with your spouse which are EXCEPTIONALLY good ie the 2 minute kiss and sitting opposite one another and answering and asking the questions set out which are VERY hard and intimate) I would be able to move forward.

When I found MB I printed out EVERY article and bound them in a folder (which made a lot of people here laugh). You know, real sprial binding. I still have them all. I printed out the letters from WS's and substituted X for the OM, where Dr Harley said "OM".

No I don't.


Exactly what is his approach? Where can I find his program?


I very much agree with this.

As I said I do like Dr Phil MEDC.

MEDC, what you seem to have missed is that this not about
"another approach" but about a FAILED APPROACH. Two contradictory opinions cannot both be right. That would be silly. I am sure Dr. Phil is really cute and really nice. I could not care less. What I care about is his philosophy about adultery as it relates to this issue. He doesn't just have an "alternative" view, he has a STUPID VIEW. It is a STUPID VIEW that the WS should selectively impart facts about the affair to his victim. This view DOES NOT WORK.

Dr. Harley is right about radical honesty and Dr. Phil is WRONG. They can't both be right with opposing views. The fact of the matter is that I have seen MORE DAMAGE caused from lying, withholding, dodging the truth than I have from anything on this forum barring the actual affair. It is destructive and never fails to impede recovery. Just ask any BS who has been through it. So, don't mistake this as an objection to an "alternative" view, it is an objection to a STUPID approach that does not work.

BK... I could have a link discrediting YOU here tomorrow. The interent is a crazy place with lots of [email]cr@ppy[/email], untrue information that can be CREATED in a moment to sut anyones needs.

I Googled my name once and found one of my papers (on Horace Mann) being sold on a web site. I was named as an educational analyst(I'm no such thing). The info out there can be created in a moment.... without your knowledge or consent.

DEAD WRONG. We are not talking lab science here. We are talking people. Different people respond to different things. It is not one size fits all. Some people respond to Plan A... Plan B... some respond to Plan FU..... some NEVER respond. To suggest that two plans that are not identical (and BTW, there are A LOT of similarities between their views) can not work with such a divrse group as human beings shows a complete lack of understanding the human being.
There were times as a cop where I could be nice and talk someone out of doing soemthing horrible. Other times it required an absolutely fierce response on my part. People are not lab rats ML... they react differently to different stimuli.

And again, ML... I will say that you are twisting words to suit your point here... no one has argued that dishonesty is the right thing to do... not me, not Dr. P... no one. You continue to throw that out there as though it has merit... it does not.