Word

Yes, Mel, you did call my H and opened the door to more honesty in our M than had ever been. Never underestimate how grateful I am for that. I mean that. I was paralysed with fear at the time, although that is not how everyone saw it.

However, it works both ways. When I read your post on how dishonest you are about your family money, I wondered how your H would react to a similar phone call.

Don't be an [censored] Jen.

I presume you don't think the situations are in ANY way similar or as damaging?

In fact I don't think I have ever read something so low in my time on this site. WOW I'm stunned.

Adultery=Money issues. I guess that's the WW perspective.

Seriously Kiwi...You thank ML in one breath and then threaten her in the next...over ENTIRELY different situations-How would that call go? Hello, um yes, Mr. Melody Lane? Your wife spent $110 on face cream <gasp> How would he ever recover from such a revelation? Please make sure you have the name of a counselor that they can use handy!!! Or maybe even call 911 so that he could be resussitated! lol

Interesting to see just what the perspective is from the bottom of a liquor bottle though...thanks for that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

LOL MrsW

LOL I am completely sober. (Cheap shot BTW Mrs W). I just recognise hypocrisy and dishonesty when I see it.

To me "family" means joint accounts, accountability on all spending etc etc. A joint account and trusting each other with money is what family is all about. "Family" is about not hiding things. When I spend $240 on a haircut and colour my H says "you spent WHAT" and then when he spends the same on some stereo equipment I say "you spent WHAT". It's companionable, it's silly, it's what makes a marriage work.

Never mind.

Of course I wouldn't make a phone call like that. It's none of my business. I was just making a point.

The Policy of RADICAL HONESTY is all inclusive. It takes balls to own up to your spending with your hubby, especially when he sometimes disapproves. That's what Negotiating and POJA are for--helping come to a mutually satisfying, safe, and protective compromise so that both people can feel good about how the money is spent.

That's not to say or imply that Mel doesn't know this already or has not already addressed it with her hubby. I would assume she has, and only bring this up because it is the appropriate thing to know for people who are new to MB and learning MB Concepts.

This thread really went downhill.

The reason that MEDC's approach wouldn't have worked with me as the BS, is because I find it horrifically disrespectful for the FWS to decide what is or is not appropriate to my Recovery. FWSs have a track record of bad judgement (sorry!) and I would not be comfortable with mine telling me that something is not appropriate for me to know!! Excuse Me?? Why didn't you realize that it was inappropriate for you to do?

No. I will make the decisions for a while in early recovery. I'm not the one who ran the marriage into the ditch with my faulty judgement in the first place.

From Penalty Kill

This thread *has* run way downhill, and at this point I suspect the original poster is long gone.

I have to ask, why the personal attacks and alcoholic insinuations? Because of a difference of opinion? What's wrong with saying, "This was right for ME", and leaving it at that?

I don't see that MEDC is advocating dishonesty *anywhere*. Frankly, that is SO unlike MEDC, a straight-shooting poster whose 2x4s hit home to me in the early stages of recovery. I can still remember saying to my H, "Isn't this poster kind of harsh?" and his reply: "But that's how I FEEL!". Me: "Oooh".

And a small 25 watt lightbulb went on in my head.

And MEDC and 10Swords may not always agree, but I always look for their posts because I know they will have something valuable to say. One is in a recovered marriage, one not. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Wow, this has really went off the deep end. I see where penaltybox is coming from and same with 10Swords. Myself as a BS, even though I have not got to the point to talking about the A, I don't need all the little details. Myself I am looking for just to close out the information and the whatifs in my head. Details for me are just going to cause me more pain and those details is something that will never be undone. I may change on this when I get to that point in discussing the A. Of course if my suspicions are of the sexual nature, I am going to ask if my WS had any sexual relations. I would have a right to know. I don't care how they did it, but where I do. Because if it was in my bed or on my couch or what ever, I want to get rid of that stuff quickly.

So what works for one person may not work for the next. The concept of honesty is what works for all of us.

I do think that we scared away the poster, but only time will tell. :-)

Oh please, Kiwi, this is just a shoddy, low attempt to change the subject. Why not have another drink?

This thread has collapsed into complete, catty, vicious chaos and has sadly, become a waste of time.

10Swords, this is being brought up in an attempt to change the subject and has nothing to do with the subject at hand. MEEEOOOWW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> This will certainly teach me to never bring up any of my own marital issues here because someone with a resentment will only use it as a baseball bat in the future, not to help, but to punish. Very catty, 10Swords.

Everyone here knows I would not advocate dishonesty. Twisting Dr. Harley's appraoch around as Mel as done with Dr. Phils would go something like this. He advocates perpetuating another cruelty on the BS by allowing hurtful details that really serve no purpose to be discussed. The opposite of kindness is cruelty.
That is every bit as ridiculous as what Mel has said regarding this.
The fact is honesty is the cornerstone of both approaches.
These personal attacks on Jen only because she stood up against Mel... (and yes... being dishonest about money when being so preachy about honesty is hypocritical) just shows the mentality of these boards.
Perhaps discussing differing opinions are not welcome on your personal board Mel...but here they are. And your appraoch on this thread has not at all been reflective of the straight shooting, brash but caring person I have come to know on these boards.
This is all sad indeed.

10S... good morning. Just want to let you know... it is not my approach. This whole topic was brought up in an innocuous way and since then has been kept alive by those that have felt that there is but one way to do things. I have chosen to understand where others are coming from.
I do believe that a BS should be able to ask certain questions. But I can understand how soemone with pure motives and honesty would not agree that is the best way to handle things.
Basically that is what this entire argument comes down to for me. Dr. harley happens to be the biggest tree in the field...but his is not the only one that casts shade. And although more people can find comfort under this tree than some of the others... look closely and you will notice that there are others perched under some other trees enjoying the shade. So, my point is, knowledge is a good thing. It helps to understand where others are coming from and not always assign sinister motives to their ideas.

MEDC, no one twisted your words, only posted your quotes from Dr. Phil where he DOES advocate dishonesty. You offered this as "another approach." It was challenged and soundly demolished, which has you reduced to making personal attacks since you can't defend the "alternative approach" that you posted.

You cannot expect to offer "alternative approaches" and not have them challenged. Sorry, not even Dr. Harley is above reproach.

Unfortunately, you have tried to turn any challenge, or even honest discussion, of your beloved Dr. Phil into a personal attack on any who questioned his wisdom. That says more about you than it does the challenger.

This thread has degenerated into malicious personal attacks because you can't just stick to the facts, MEDC; you have to turn everything into a personal atttack to divert from the issue at hand. That is a cheap debate tactic that is utilized that those that can't defend their case. THAT is what is disappointing......and obvious.

Mel... I see a good night s sleep has done nothing for your mood. In fact it is your words that have been shown to be false and hypocritical. Your position has in fact been demolished. And Dr. Phil is not beloved to me... but I am also not a groupie for Dr. H that thinks that just because he says something that it is true... the truth stands no matter who says it... but your own words show that you do not believe it to be true. That the person speaking and not the truth is what counts most. You have become so enamoured with your bully tactics that you can't stand anyone questioning you or challenging your views. I have not in anyway challenged Dr. H here and have repeatedly said I agree with his approach. All I have said is that I understand other approaches and that does not fit into your 2 gallon hat.

I rest my case.