See, now these are the things that give me hope. She came home from whereever she went to and was in a decent mood.
She was looking for something to eat and I suggested the cantelope (sp?) I bought a couple of days ago. She said "nah". I then suggested she show me how to cut one up. She agreed and we shared a very nice moment together. She even laughed a little when I screwed it up the first time. I told her I was always impressed with how she handles a knife and that out of our entire 7 years, there were only two meals I can think of that she prepared that I didn't care for, and it wasn't because she screwed up, it was us trying something completey new, and in fact she didn;t care for those two meals either (that's why I brought that up). Sorry for the run-on sentence.

I hear you about the moving out thing. I talked with work today and I am going to the office for the day on Thursday to talk about the process of lining a place up for me, just in case.

I talked with the landlord and they said they are going to check the PD to see about the arrest that occured and make a decision from there. I will visit them again tomorrow to lean on them.

And you don't "want" 2 leverage another person. You want that person 2 make healthy choices on their own, and share your healthy individualities in a committed relationship - marriage.

As for it being difficult 2 get her away from negative influences: Again, you want her 2 choose 2 not be negatively influenced. But she does have 2 make that choice herself. You can't make it for her. You CAN and SHOULD remove YOURSELF from negative influences. Like MOVING. Tell her about the offer from work and offer 2 take her (your wife) with you. Sure, she'll likely say "no", but maybe planting the seed of thought will be useful.


You don't know this. They're very good at it. But you shouldn't have her participate in the first session anyway. That's for them 2 get 2 know you and your perspective, and what you want 2 do.


Steve Harley himself once said that affairs don't happen because of unmet needs, they happen because the WS doesn't protect their marriage from their own weaknesses. At this point, her statement is more an excuse for bad behavior, not an admonition of anything you ever did or didn't do. A WS who is "aware" of plan A/B may try 2 use it against you, but it won't work in the long haul. You bought SAA? Leave it out on your nightstand. Not hers, as you don't want 2 appear "lec2ring".


Then you'll have a plan. What's the 2uestion, anyway?


Then if she moves, she moves. But she hasn't yet. In the meantime, I'd do what you need 2 do 2 be better able 2 support a spouse - either her or someone else someday - and think about what direction you want your career 2 go and go that direction. And offer 2 take her with you.


You're still hashing this out as though what she does or doesn't do makes all the difference in the world 2 YOUR fu2re. Stop that. It's unattractive. Do what you think... no, do what you KNOW is right for you, then your marriage, then your family (someday).

Get your waterfowl coaxial.

-ol' 2long

You make some great points. My promotion in the company would put me in the number 2 spot of the flight dept. That would be about as high as I could get. The money will never be super great, but enough for a decent living, but that's ok. It is a very stable company, and in aviation, stability means everything.

The more and more people I talk to, it sounds like she is trying to grow up and be her own person (which is fine)...but is going about it the wrong way.

DF,

I just wanted to jump in and repeat what 2L said. You need to quit trying to "fix" her or the R! Talk of MC, planning for the future are all things that must happen, but right now you need to bring the A to an end.

You don't need to talk to her about "her" plans to be in Plan A.

You don't need to have a promise from her to work things out to be in Plan A.

You don't need to discuss how many changes you are making while in Plan A.

You don't need to know what she will do to be in Plan A.

Part of what Plan A is all about is making changes that will benefit the R if it can be salvaged. These are things for you to work on. You are powerless to control her feelings, but what you do can have a huge effect on the way she feels about you.

Don't enable her affair; try to bring it to an end. You seem to be on the right road in this regard. But until she has had NC for a while and has begun to notice the changes you have made, she will NOT commit to saving the M. You just need to do what YOU can to make being married to you more attractive than not being married to you. Once the "fog" begins to lift, she may make that commitment. Then you can talk about the R.

If every conversation is about what she is doing and whether or not SHE is willing to work on your M, your time is going to be very short. Think of Plan A as an extended first date. If you spent all of your first date with your W telling her what was wrong with her and trying to get her to commit to a lifelong marriage, you never would have gotten married.

You can't win her back by "fixing" her or by "fixing" the M, so stop trying to do that!

You old heads clear me up on this if I'm off target with this, but this is what has been bugging me a lot lately. (Yeah, I know, it's just MY baggage)

Call Steve and get a real plan, then execute that plan with military precision. Only worry about what YOU do and have control over, not what SHE does or says.

Mark

You said it well, mark.

-ol' 2long

EXACTLY!!!!!

I am trying to figure out how this got to me trying to change her. In a previous post, I said something like "I am working on her". Please do not misconstrue that I am trying to change her. The intent of that statement is me showing her the changes. I have been doing the "180" list, for what applies, and have not been LBing.
The discussion today was guided by her, everytime I tried to change the subject or end it, she persisted.
I'm making changes to myself, and that is what I am focusing on. Getting in shape, quitting smoking, heading to the gym, not getting angry (or at least not showing it) when she starts in on me (something I would do in the past), actively listening to her, etc...

the next few weeks are critical, as she may boot my butt out now that she figured out she can.

As for the A, there hasn;t been contact since Saturday night. I am sure of that, as I have been checking up on that. And yes, you can ask "are you sure?" and all I will say is she is not as sneaky as she likes to think she is and I do have my ways (I'm discovering I can be pretty ingenious when it comes to getting info).

DF,

What prompted me to jump in was that you seem to react to everything that she says or does in some way. She gets home and is smiling, you think it is a sign of good things to come. If she is not smiling, you seem to be convinced that she has decided that she is leaving tonight.

My point was (is) that you don't need to react to everything that happens. Sometimes things just happen and the results don't change. The trick in Plan A is to discern what matters and what is just "noise."

If a pass is intercepted by the defense and on the next play, the first team's defense forces a fumble and recovers it at the same spot as the interception, the net result is nothing (zero, zip, zilch..nada) beyond the loss of the few seconds that clicked off the clock.

She will come and go and say things that may sound hopeful and she will say things that are hurtful. You must do what you can do and just stop worrying about what she is doing (or isn't doing). Until you reach the point that you know that you are doing all that you can to save your marriage and that there is nothing more you can do beyond that, you are going to make yourself crazy trying to figure out what she is going to do next.

The beauty of Plan A is that what she does matters very little if you do what you need to do. That is why we keep saying you should call Steve H so that you KNOW what you should be doing. Plan and act! Don't react!

Mark

Point taken, thanks.

DF:

I doubt very much that she can kick you out of the apartment, even if your name isn't on the lease.

Who pays the rent? Who's name is on the checks? If you're on there anywhere, or if your landlord accepts rent checks from you as a couple with YOU as one of that couple, you can't be evicted until you've stopped paying the rent. And even then, it can take a while.

I place more emphasis on lining up your promotion and a new place to live and worry a lot less about her kicking you out. She can't. (though it might be pretty unpleasant living with her if she tries and you refuse 2 leave).

-ol' 2long

I spoke with my boss today, and they are lining up a place to stay that I would end up sharing with another manager who commutes from out of town and usually stays in a hotel.
So, my rent will be cheaper if I go.

I seperated our finances today. I just took out my last paycheck, which was deposited after she said she wanted a divorce (considered a seperation where I am at, even though we are currently co-habitating). This was at the advice of legal counsel, because if I raided the whole thing it could very well come back to hanunt me during proceedings.

Here is a question regarding the financial situation. I have seperated the finances.
Since it looks like we are going to be co-habitating, do I set it up where she is going to pay half the rent, utilities, etc...?

That makes sense.

dog

i think it is always best to stay in the same house together AND in plan A for as long as possible if reconcilliation is your goal. I think that it makes your chances greater.

IMHO it is best to avoid separation if at all possible.

I agree eav.

Well, found out she went out today and used her last paycheck to open up her own account. Is this normal?
I know I know...

Anything a WS does that makes little or no sense is "normal" for a WS. And you can tell when they're lying...because their lips are moving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well then that says it then. she has to pay her half as long as she is there with you. I would say cut off the joint account ASAP so she can't make a huge withdrawal to her account. Stay with her as long as she will stay. Keep working Plan A.

Unfortunetly, I have to keep quite a bit of money in the joint account to cover some outstanding checks. Of course, one of these checks is to the IRS and will affect her too, so hopefully she won't do something that stupid.

Just had our first fog fight. Well, she yelled and vented, I listened and nodded my head. She went on and on about how he was nothing but a friend and how I ruined it and how I am always controlling. Oh, and just why exactly did I contact her family members and the voice mail her father left ("Hi hon, I know the situation and about wanting to divorce XXXXXX, call me and we will talk". And what did I expect to gain from talking with her father, just because he was in the same situation? Huh? Hmm...thought you were just friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and what would I do if she were to start talking with im again, would I talk to him again? I answered "yup".

As for staying with her, that may be limited. She has already begun the application process to another complex.
She said the first place that is available opens up around the 15th of Feb.

Oh, and the "I don't know why I married you, it has been this bad for the past 7 years" came out too.

Just thought it was something you need to watchout forl


total fog babble


You just keep working Plan A as long as possible. If you really do a GREAT ONE she will take notice and remember later. May just pay off down the line.

If she files it will take time to be final and a lot can change in the meantime.