That is interesting. Not the typical advice around here.

I listened to your call, and I agree with everything that Dr. Harley said. Continue to plan A your WW for the next few weeks while you read up on your books and prepare for plan B (letter, finances, etc.). Then go to a dark plan B and show her that it is SHE that can't survive without YOU. This will get your WW off the fence.

Yes, be sure to do some planning for Plan B. Since your wife is still quite friendly with you, it is going to be difficult. Your finances need to be in order, her things removed from the home. Try to think of anything that she might use to contact you, and take care of it before Plan B.

If anything, the fact that the two of you text a lot is going to be your downfall.

Also get a Plan B letter ready and post it here before giving it to her. Remember, no LB's, angry outbursts, or disrespectful judgements.

I will plan the plan b carefully, Finances are already secure, do have to remove a few of her things/her sons things from the home... My sisters happly volenteered to pack her out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We don't text alot, it really is my only contact for the moment. a few a day maybe...

I well post the plan B letter for peer review by the experts after reading the books and when ready.

I also need to think hard how long I will be in Plan B until I proceed to plan D, personally I think the odds are less the 20% she will ever return... As it was said she was a renter that became a freeloaded...

Then again seperation is getting easier every day, I do miss having prople around and of course the nookie but I don't miss the walking on eggs feelings, constant cleaning up after kids, constant noise. And generally not having my needs met...

The high note today, I meet the WW for dinner tonight... I asked her if she could on her way past the pet store (on her way) grab a bag of dog food and I would pay her at the resturant... she said sorry, I am broke until payday.

She never had that problem when she was with me.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure she will have lots more problems.

AT dinner, don't talk relationship talk. Don't talk about renters and FREELOADERS. Just be yourself and try to have a good time.

I hope you right

Well WW now has a myspace and lists herself as single...
Another wonderful day... life is sure starting to suck...

Is anyone out there that can say there is any hope here. Anyone evermade it back from where I am? It is really lonley out here tonight.

Hey Ken,
I never was quite in your shoes, but I may end up there. I would say that there is still hope. Your have been plan A'ing and I would guess that from your WW perspective, it has been almost all carrot. Once you have planned for and gone to Plan B, she will then start to see the stick, what she stands to lose if she continues her actions. My WW did and may still take it for granted that her safety net will be there to catch her if she falls. I think that because you HAVE shown her that you are willing to forgive, she is testing the waters knowing that she can always go running back to you and you will accept her. Plan B, a dark plan B and conditional return may get through to her.

Once she does not have your support to rely on and fall back on when things get too tough, she will start to see the DISadvantages of the life she is choosing right now. The thing is, I would guess that she would ask to come back soon after a Dark Plan B is started to see if the safety net is there or really been pulled away. If you do not hold her accountable and require demonstration of her commitment to restore your marriage, she will think it is OK to walk all over you. It kind of reminds me of a 3-4 year old child testing their boundaries. Firm, consistent but caring enforcement of the boundaries is what establishes the behavior pattern in the child. Right now I see your WW actions as very childish.

I hope you do not let the lonlieness get to your and undermine your resolve. Call your buddies, go work out so you crash into bed exhausted, schedule "surprises" to do with your kids, KEEP BUSY. Your WW will need some time for the truth to sink in and you need to keep strong and not let her actions dictate yours. I ended up needing to look at myself as an addict of my WW and break my own addiction to her before I could help myself. I would do things that were unhealthy for me in order to get a fix of her. Don;t make my mistakes, stay strong, execute your plan. Give us status reports on your plan, focus on what you control and not what she controls. I get more hope every time one of my BH peers tells us about their triumphs living as upright men and good fathers.

Had another Talk with Dr Harley, on the 1230 segment today, He brought things into perspective. WW is going down a road I cannot follow. I deserve so much better then what I have recieved, and I refuse to settle for second place any more, not second place to OM, or computer games or kids...

My MC/IC also agrees, she dosn't see WW making any effort to reconcile, lots of talk but no action...

So in about 30 minutes from now I will be letting WW know if she wants the divorce I will grant her one. I actually feel at peace for the first time in months, I will no longer have to deal with lies and mis-truths, no more deceptions and mind games.

My dad always said better to be alone then in poor company, he was so right.

Jim in Milwaukee

HUH??? I think you need to get a plan and stick to it.

what did Dr Harley advise you to do? keep on plan A? go to plan B? or D?

He's very experienced and most times seems to be right on the money. Why not consider following his advice?

from your post, it sounds as though Dr. Harley has advised D?

i'm surprised by this since the A was an EA and D-day was not long ago. you have only been in plan A for a short time.

well he said this is probably the "Real" her and do I want to walk this road, I said no I don't, it wasn't what I bought into... Then Dr. H said basically then you know what to do...

I will re-play the show was on at 1230 and post details tommrow but now i need ot go out and Kick it... i actually feel great and in control for the first time in months...

check out my myspace... http://www.myspace.com/jimmer42

Dr. Harley is probably advising you as he is because the two of you haven't been married that long, and there are no kids (human anyway).

That is one thing that kind of bothers me about the MB site. Frank Pittman says that a high percentage of affairs happen in the first couple of years. It seems like if people just give up, the D rate would be even higher.

maybe this is because, although you have been in a committed relationship with this woman for 7 years, you have only been married for a little over a year

(your 3rd marraige and her 2nd)

also, i just heard the rebroadcast

your wife is living with a lesbian and has listed her sexual preferance on her my space in a way that makes you wonder

still listening

here's what i got from listening to the call

Dr Harley says she is the kind of person who will jump out of a relationship much earlier than she did in her earlier years (1st marraige was long term)

she is seeing symptoms in your relationship that makes her feel like she's ready to jump out

Dr. Harley suggests that this may be a reflection of her true personality type... impulsive, irresponsible, fun loving...at the expense of her future

If she sees you as controlling and abusive, anything that you try to do to win her back, she will see as controlling

there was a discussion where they suggest that what you view as "taking care of her" may be seen as smothering her

you said that she has said this

they suggested that you listen to her

"if you were to just let go of her, she may just come back because it is the logical thing to do"

he does say there is a question to ask....is she is the person you want to be with for the rest of your life.

they then said they will talk to you during the break

can you recall anything shared during the break?

"Dr Harley says she is the kind of person who will jump out of a relationship much earlier than she did in her earlier years (1st marraige was long term)"

But what does THAT mean?

what i got from the conversation is that Dr Harley believes that as his wife has been through a few relationships where she wasn't happy and made the decision to D, she now makes that decision early and easier that the first time she made it

as soon as she starts to think that this relationship might be another one where she isn't getting what she wants

the rebroadcast has just started over. Ken's call hasn't replayed yet and still has a while to go before it is going to be player if you want to listen and see what you get from it.

i'm listening right now...got in right during Jim's call...