yup you have it about right...

Internet EA also all info i have been given points to a PA with OM#2 (phone logs/text logs support this as does a pic etc).

I filed for d to freeze marital accests wi is joint property state.

Didn't give her enough affection, intamate converstaion...
Though I was always on the plus side of the EN according to her check sheet...

Big problems was LB however, disrespect judgemnts, anger outbursts, talking over her...

I am working hard at these even in her absense... I have lost 70 pounds now, taken anger managment class, been in IC, much stronger internally, calmer, more open minded...

You are correct I am much more reactive then I would like to be... I recieve many mixed messenges... but not much positive action.

Basic Plan is to better myself for whatever the outcome.
plan A basically minus her to see it, though she said today she sees positive changes.

Hope the WW will re-engage at some point, but I have doubts. Hope she will talk to this pastor friend of hers she trusts and maybe he can make some headway.

I really can't do much execpt better myself, I have no ability to control her actions...

I think if she would re-engage and just try we could work through the M and be good... I am willing... Her... I don't think she has much confidance it can be made to work... She has I think given up.. She says shee still loves me just can't see how it can work... that is my best read...


Jim

I asked this pastor friend and he will talk to her, She also agreeded to talk to him... He will get back to me after he sees her heart... pastor is Pro M! If she is trully done with I will let her go and move on...
It is in gods hands

Ken,

What happened?

And why did you think this was your last hurrah?

It's not over until the judge says it is...even then...

I don't understand how you perceived DrHarley saying you may not want to fight for this marriage because you'll be vulernable to more hurt, since she's done this more than once? Do I have that advice correct?

I ask because because you're different than last Feb...you're different...makes everything different. Look at you! You've identified LBs and ENs, gotten into IC, are posting here, owning your stuff...living in the present (mostly)...working on revoking your permission to react and your permission to act...

To me, you've got two solid footholds into reality and thriving...and you're not in Plan B...you're not dark, right?

And boy, you blew me away when you stated truth about OM2 instead of asked for it.

I can't tell you how appreciative I am that you're here, of your choices.

Really cowboying up, IMO.

Big kudos.

And I think I'm reacting to your posts from a wistfulness still in me that my BH didn't do this...so thanks for the reminder, I gotta share this with him. LOL.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

DR H thinks this may be a patteren caused by poor impulse control... that could make for a rocky painful road for me... But if I choose to fight for the M i need to come out of plan B into Plan A. Unfortunalty she isn't have any contact with me and has recieved the Plan B letter... so now what would make me look weak if I retreat... I don;'t knwo how to plan a someone who won't allow it or dosn't want to do much about it or admit the A...

I am as you said, I am working on me anger managment, loosing weight (now 220 down from 285 in Nov). Taking care of ME New clothing, colone, car, my old haircut, dressing better... Try to live in the now, but have my down days when I just really hurt from the loss too...

I have exposed again, Her family will do nothing to help they never liked me to start with and with her rewriting history that is more like hate now...

The pastor I spoke of will meet/talk to her and she says she will talk to him... we will see what her actions are.

Yes I told WW on the phone I know about the A with OM...
(Pastor know as well and what evidance I have too..)

When she started Gaslighting , refused to admit the A said he was trying she was fending him off... I said stop... I have just recieved compelling evidance... Didn't tell her the evidance... But said it was compeling and conclusive and I wasn't open to debate or discuss it , i saw what I saw and I know what I know... Also said what is done is done, and what is is.. said the M can be restored but the A must stop and we need to return to MC and time was running out... I said you didn't like the last MC we can go to your pastor friend... she has known and liked him for +20 years... .

She didn't like the B letter said it was controlling , I countered no it is working togeather, that isn't control since you are part of every decision, every discussion. She said still loves me but can not see how the M can change and get better, be happy... She did acknowledge seeing positive changes in me however, said she knows I am willing to make more changes to make her happy and I could make her happy... As always a mass of jumbeled confusing messneges, and lies... Then she canceled Coffie later said son was comming to town...

Through the chat, I spokly firmly but softly, no anger, no yelling, no lbing... Just quite conviction...

The pastor is my last hurrah... We need to make some positive progress toward recon or in need to start having some closure... I really can't take much more damage without relly getting messed up inside... This I do know...

Jim

I'm just sending support Ken. You are doing great! You've really got your [censored] together. Regardless of the outcome I'm confident that YOU are going to be just fine.

Good Luck

Ken/Jim...I am really dependent on screen names...so this is confusing to me...(about me)...can I call ya Ken?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Plan B has no contact except through intermediary...doesn't have the phone discussions, emails or any of your light into her world.

And no, you don't go from Plan B to Plan A at all...

Guess I'm asking why are you choosing to not be dark? Every vibration of your voice meets an EN...each time you listen and repeat, does as well...Plan B is cutting off meeting all ENs...even financial ones.

How dark can you get?

I don't know what to say about poor impulse control at all...am I correct in understanding these A's have happened over the last year and a half? Beginning with one and rolling into another? Or are you saying that you may believe she's been having fantasy EA's in head for longer? One-sided or not owned ones?

I know in my own history that when I got fully into the wayward state of mind the last time, it lasted nearly a year and half...not the one A...the state of mind...beginning with a trigger event...my first born dropping into Iraq...and so I focused on the news, drilled holes through my marriage and then began an A...even after I ended the A (not from waking up, either) still full of entitlment...and barreled on with the whole divorce, separation stuff and scrounging to find a replacement for the replacement...yeah, talk about poor impulse control coming from entitlement, which gives permission to disintegrate people with my eyes...

I have solid impulse control now...thanks to MB, MC and a whole lotta books...and to God for giving me a huge wake up call...

I believe poor impulse control comes from not having boundaries, marital or personal...and focusing on developing and predetermining your boundary enforcement steps would be a great way to spend the dark time.

Grieving takes time...a whole five-step process (with a lot of backtracking)...knowing your grieving to heal helps a lot...

I can tell you that refuting is of no benefit to you...it's an LB in my book under DJs...because you're telling her what she believes, thinks, feels, perceives isn't valid. And it is...the hairy part of this is to repeat (if you weren't in Plan B) and then state your own truth...not refuting...two people sharing. Practicing this, not taking her truth as yours...is essential to injecting respect into your life premise and greatly benefits recovery.

I see you as not only are you breaking your darkness...you're also telling her she's wrong...and she may have heard she's wrong a lot pre-A...helps fuel entitlement through resentment and lack of respect.

I don't see in your sigline how long you've been married, if this is your first or second, ages...children born in the marriage and their ages...

What do you mean more messed up inside? Plan B is to protect you from all contact...so you can focus on you, your healing, studying and knowing...when you break your darkness you sabotage your intent and your goal...and you're choosing to do that.

You don't see progress in Plan B...you're dark. You gave her the PBL laying out all she needs to do to find her way back...no negotiating...no meeting with MC's...you're dark.

How is your own IC? Pro-marriage? Do you guys address your power, your limits...choosing your actions from a personal code, not based on possible response? Does the IC have you doing homework, exercises, reading certain books?

Any inner child work going on?

Appreciate all your sharing and you being here.

LA

Best I can tell he DR H think this could eb a patteran and could be a Repeat WW... and open me to big hurt...

Diffrent then Feb (like one month ago) God it feels like a life time ...

I went dark the day we signed the D temp order but didn't know about OM#2. I waited to send the B letter till this weekend, and did so yesterday... it was posted eailer...

However The OM2 changes things, so DR H said if I want to Fight for M may need to go back to plan A...

Now I am really confused... I send a plan B letter. how do I go back to plan A without look ing weak? Also broke NC to expose that I knew...

Basically told her I know about the OM#2 and the A, didn't really accept any answers, said the evidance I recieved was compelling.. This Pic and OM#2 sister passed word to me from somone who knows me that he was doing my WW (didn;t tell ww source hoever) Then checked phone records 70+ calls +4000 text mgs between them... Works for me... I call that proof enough

those who can do myspace here is the pic I was tipped off to...

http://myspace-064.vo.llnwd.net/01396/46/02/1396742064_l.jpg..

What do you think? Would love your opinion...


I will go back Dark I think unless the pastor I exposed to can make some headway...

But I am really confused at the moment... Broke down tonight first time in a long time... Staying dark is the only way to protect myself...

But need all the guidance and support i can get right now....

Jim

2 EA DD March 06 OM1, Fall 06 OM2, PA OM3 started between OCT 6-15 best I can determaine formavailable evidance...

Broke darkness to expose that I knoew of the PA... Must expose it... yes seems to be rolling EA/EA/PA

Trigger seems to be the wedding best i can tell...

I did not refute just said the evidance I was giving was compelling and pretty conclusive...


OK This is M #3 1st ended cuz I married at 19 (young and dumb) Second M ended when I caught Wife with man in her arms and her legs wraped around his waist... Now that was conclusive as it can be...
This marrage was feb 11 2006, she went wacko right after that... we have no kids togeather and we have been in an monogiomus exlusicve relationship (to my knowledge) since jun 2000...


Messed up in side... hurting, confused, lonly, indicesive, one minute want to run like ******, one min what to have her back... Make sense...

My current IC thinks it is time to cut my looses... She thinks WW has check out more or less permantly. Will be switch IC shortly, however she is trying to minimize any more damage to me and trying to pout me back togeather... emotionally... IC says I have a strong , intense personality
driven by a very strong right-wrong belief structure and convictions... I don't need help there... Also my word is bond... I made W a promase, I know God has provided me a get out of jail card, I just still love her and would rather not use it... But may have too...

IC says I may have picked a wonded bird so to speak...
settled for less that I should have... WW isn't strong personality and I my stregnth may intimadate her, even though I am not abusive, condecending, etc... and would give her the world and anything she wants... No inner child work, some goals... Mainly trying to rebuild my shattered self esteam...

The pastor I refered to is Pro M big time has known WW for +20 years, her son lives with the pastors family, work at the curch... he may have some influance and is my last hope I think...



jim

Oh i will probably (95% sure) go bacd dark unless/until the pastor can make sigificant head way with the WW. I can't take much more of the hurt...

Jim

ok I exposed to WW, OM, FIL, Pastor olded S lives with (a +20 year friend) WW EX-H (who is now considering suing for custody of D 1&2) D 1 + 2 babysitter (she lives 3 doors away from me, and Lady who lives 4 doors down (kids play with D 1+2) I even showed the 2 ladies the pic (linked above, all they could say was Mid-life crisis and she is nuts and OMG and Da*n that is messed up)

Don't know who else to expose too... Guess time to go back dark...


Jim

message I sent to OM


I was recently provided/given evidance you have been and are having an affair with my wife Bobi. WTF.

ok advice/support time pros and other people... what else can I do?

[color:"red"] [/color] [color:"red"] [/color]

To expose that I know, place pressure on the A...

I can make a black hole look like high noon if needed...

Thanks I need all the support I can muster... This is very hard, and I don't think I will win this one...

The clock is ticking, the window is not closed but it is closing.

Jim

Hey Jim - did you hear that Dog's wife is back home?

Stay strong man. I am not any kind of expert so I really don't know what I could say. I have been lurking on your thread off and on for some time now. You have shown me incredible strength in the face of some terrible situations. Just thought I would tell you that I am listening and I hope the best for you.
Rock

sorry to threadjack - believer, are you serious about Dog's wife?

NP Eph, I could really use seeing a Winner right now. When thigs seem so bleek.. Go DOG Go!

Don't leave me LA...

The trail is getting pretty hard, rougfh and lonely...

I don't know if I am "Cowboying UP"...

Mostly I am just tryinbg to survive, Living day by day and hanging on to what I have left the best I know how...

I will tell this latest discovery was a real kick in the nads, it was in my house... First tears fell in like 7 weeks.

Frankly I would trade it all for the pain to just stop...

jim

Ps Back to the war with the 1000 yard stare

well had 3 very intresting developments today,

# 1 was with WW #1 son.

Basic content is he doesn't think the situation with OM3 is "physical".. he also dosn't understand what is up with his mom, Indicated mom is just going out dancing having fun acting like she is 25, he seem to say he and pastor are tossing around the term "Mid life crisis" we talked alot about me missing the kids ect. he invited me to his church. I said I will visit...

#2 Later I spoke with the pastor...
He couldn't tell me alot of their conversation but did say they (he and WW) spoke for a couple hours... She denighed an PA with OM#3, admitted to flirtation... admitted to internet addiction... admitted she made mistakes too...
Talked about our problems, she just dosn;t see how it could change and be better... she can't see it right now.. His feeling is that it isn't hopeless, but is bleek... Said she needs space to work things through inside... He said if I pursue it appears like control. If I don't well how do you rebuild the trust... Difficult spot.

We talked about our M problems, I indicated ima de mistales, but was very willing to adapt and change but i cannot remove prior mistakes... I indicated I don't know how to adapt to meet her needs if she dosn't express them or allow me to meet them... He Said that was a good point... he will be talking to her again as an intermeadatary to see what can be done.. I said I am willing to go to MC at any time any place with the counsler of her choice... He said I need to sit back and let her sort it out and time will tell...


#3 here is the responce from OM3 want you thoughs on this relpy.
Jim-

1st of let me just say this, what is wrong w you man? Seriously!

Not that its any of my business but what are you doing reading old text messages anyway? You of all people should know that yeah I am a flirt and if I wanted to I could probably take Bobi from you.

Now I ain't saying thats gonna happen so don't blow it out of context, You have to realize that people flirt Jim and sometimes thats just how we socialize.

I'm sure you've done your share of flirting also this ain't kindergarten and I don't want to disrespect your lifestyle but your a pretty cool guy Jim.

Don't go making things harder for yourself by trying to blame for your marriage failures, and you wanna cry to the world that me and Bobi had an affair please be rest assured it will fall on def ears.

I ain't trying to take your wife away and whatever problems you 2 have its on you, I ain't married and I know well enough that women are unpredictable and people change. Given Bobi's circumstances she didn't really get to live the life she wanted. And having you dictate some of it and constanly being by her side probably just provoked it even more.

When your on a sinking ship Jim its best that the captain goes down with it rather than the trusty crew.




ok pros need help giudance and support tonight...

Will be doing some heavy praying for sight guidance tonight... I am very confused and conflicted...

Am staying in Plan B...

I am giving this one to the Lord. It has become to heavy to carry...


JIm

Jim, I have never posted to you before, and I will probably get an MB 2X4 for this one. The e-mail from that moron would be a deal-breaker for me. That reeks of PA. If this is your wife's idea of an OM, then they deserve each other, and you deserve better!

That e-mail would be all the encouragement i need to go see a lawyer and file. Sorry if this upsets you, but you deserve so much better!

Jim,

I've been in computer heck all week, which means, I was away from my desk and not MBing (da nerve!); hence, my late replies and catching up on your thread. I'm not going away..I know that pain-time is much longer than real time...I do understand.

Back to your history post:

"OK This is M #3 1st ended cuz I married at 19 (young and dumb)"

Okay...married three times. Good to know. You attribute your first divorce to young and dumb? What does that mean? How long married first time? I'm asking to understand what Phases of marriage you've experienced at what ages.

Any children from M#1?

"Second M ended when I caught Wife with man in her arms and her legs wraped around his waist... Now that was conclusive as it can be..."

Second marriage...how long (including dating time)? You've already experienced a divorce due to infidelity...good to know you know that road. Any children from that marriage? How long between M#1 and M#2? Again...this isn't for judgment...it's for clarity.

"This marrage was feb 11 2006, she went wacko right after that..."

Well, this may clarify why DrH advises what he advises... Were you living together for those five years? How many times has she been married? How many children from previous relationships/marriages?

"we have no kids togeather and we have been in an monogiomus exlusicve relationship (to my knowledge) since jun 2000..."

Okay...now I'm back confused with DrH's advice, given the duration of your relationship with WW.

"Messed up in side... hurting, confused, lonly, indicesive, one minute want to run like ******, one min what to have her back... Make sense..."

You've had two divorces...my thought is you're experiencing this level of pain because it's cumulative...from each previous separation...symbolizes abandonment, annihilation (isn't that the worst pain?)...adds to the confusion, cumulatively, as well...the resulting indecision...deep urges to run and have back...makes perfect sense to me.

This is right now. Your brain is handing you a lot more intense signals and what I want you to do is to listen to them, write them down...whatever visual images pops into your head...note them and let them go...may come from decades ago, or yesterday...identification...not deciding, or taking an action...lots of deep breaths, focusing on your own air, existence...you can include rubbing your feet, giving yourself hugs, holding your own hands...these were what I did during this same time...and yes, you're feelings are real, valid...not to be acted from. They are compounded...and necessary. Do some of these centering physical actions (great self-care choices) and see what the images are your brain hands you...or the audibles.

I'm going to pick back up with your IC in my next post...my DH got off work early and I'm outta here for tonight.

You're in my prayers...

LA