just finished a conference call for work, but spoke with WS just before that.

I can NOT believe what he did and am not sure at all how I feel about it.

BACKGROUND - - last week an employee at the office where I work says to me "So, how's your love life".

this is a person I've known for 15 years and have had numerous conversations with during that time. However, it is NOT someone who I share the intimate details of my personal life.


It was OBVIOUS to us both what he was talking about - That he had heard about my separation from WS - REMEMBER WS used to work here and was in fact this person's boss for a while.

I told WS about this last night. WS knew that I was upset and hurt by it. He said I should complain to the boss.
My response was "About what? He didn't really do anything wrong"

I have said nothing to anyone here about what is going on. They frequently ask about WS and I reply as I always have.

I was also confronted the week prior by another employee who WS had told we were "not together any more". WS had not told me about this conversation and I was blindsided in front of others. I told WS after it happened and he apologized for not telling me he had talked to them. His initial reaction was "He's such an A**hole".

Fast forward to today -

WS "In case you haven't heard yet, I'm going to tell you I talked to "X" (the boss over this office) about what "Z" said to you last week"

Bugs "What? Don't do that. That is for ME to do"

WS "well it's done"

Bugs "What did you say?"

WS "I told him what was said and that you were very hurt and upset by it. It was very unprofessional of "Z". He had no right to say that to you. You are a very professional person and had never done anything to "Z" to deserve that. It needs to stop"

Bugs - quiet for a while "Thanks for your concern"

At first I wanted to yell at him "IT"S NOT YOUR PLACE! How DARE you interfere in my place of business"

Then, I wondered if this a way for him to "take care of me" and that perhaps I should be thankful.

THEN - - I tried thinking in WS form and wonder if this isn't really more about taking care of HIS REPUTATION here? What with the rumors really starting to fly about what he's been up to - - this makes him look like the good guy in coming to my defense.

EXPERTS??? Please weigh in here.

I am going to have to address this with the boss here. I CAN'T have him saying anything to this person as it will only FUEL the rumor fire around here. That's ALL I need!

UGGGH!

Yes, I think he's probably trying to shore up his reputation, but I also see some positives in here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He's going to come back to work (maybe) where you currently work?

OW is quitting the industry?

Maybe your WH got a little jealous that this guy made the 'how's your love life' statement.

Did you fill out the EN form *for* your H? What do you think are his top ENs? He seems very invested in his perception that everyone needs him and can't do without him.

You are doing great!!

Thanks for the encouragement!

I did fill out the form for him, and yes, Admiration is very HIGH on his list. I think that has been a MAJOR driver in the actions over the last several months. He has been getting constant deposits from everyone at his current work.

My local supports are constantly making the comment about how this is "all about him,,,, he really thinks a lot of himself, etc" I know the truth is that he is VERY insecure.

I am the one he comes to and tells about his feelings of insecurity. I have been Plan A'ing my butt off on giving him the support, admiration, kudos whenever I get this chance.

Today, I sent him a brief email telling him how happy I am for him in this new opportunity. How I admire his caring for others, how he deserves the opportunity, how I am proud of him and believe in him.

I got a reply, "thanks" I KNOW - at least he acknowledged it, right! Can't expect anything more, no matter how much I want more!!

WS came by last night to pick up DSS12. Sat in the corner chair of living room (can't get too close to Bugs these days!)

Talked some about his new opportunity - I was supportive, but mostly just listened.

He told me that he is taking today off to go to the Dr. He's been fighting a cold for 2 weeks. Now this is a man that almost NEVER goes to the doctor, but more than that, this man NEVER takes a full day off of work if it can be avoided.

I am sure it has a lot to do with the potential job change, as well as he MAY be going to the dr. However, I am EXTREMELY wary about what his is "really" up to. Something is definately up,,,,,,as he told me last night that he is ALSO taking the day off WED!

Don't know if he's looking for an apartment,,,,, moving to an apartmentt,,, spending day with OW??? It's something big, I can just feel it.

He did, however, promise to see his attorney friend who is taking care of some tickets for me. He is supposed to be taking them to him personally today. Don't know if he would have done that if he had his entire day planned out with something big?

At time to leave, I got the one arm, sisterly hug. This is SO hard for me! This is where I tend to non-verbally LB, and I know it! DARN!!

I hug full at first, but as it continues with that totally Insincere feeling from him, I just feel sick to my stomach and want to puke.

- - - - QUESTION - - - -

What is the best way to deal with that, I know most of you BS have had it happen to you??

Do I TELL him that I don't want a hug if that is the way it's going to be? I'd rather have NONE than one that feels so FAKE??
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
FWS - - How about you?? What worked or didn't work in the long run when it came to your BS's reaction to this??
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Need advice on this BIG TIME!

I've been keeping up with LilSis' thread.

{{{SIS}}}}

If you read this, I hope that you do Plan R and return to the Board. I so feel your pain & frustration. However, I see such GREAT advice and support here for you as well!

Seems like the "quality" advisors are getting back on track with advice vs the debate back and forth. THAT is where it's at!

I know it helped me this morning to read again how important it is to focus on PLAN A - - work the PLAN despite what WS does or doesn't do - for as long as you can. I am dealing with WS - - - - and they are all pretty much the same while they are WS!!

Hang in there everyone!!

Stop fearing exposure. Let it happen. Stop trying to come up with ways to stop the rumor mill.
He SHOULD be ashamed of himself. He SHOULD look like a bad guy (CUZ HE IS ONE!)
Stop trying to protect him from the consequences of his actions.

Exposure is your greatest tool. Are you going to just sit back and let him blame this on you? Cuz that's what he's trying to do....WS spin: your marriage is over because you and he can't get along -- not because of an AFFAIR!.
Do you agree with that?

Bugs: I don't know if you've read "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A", but I am going to re-post it for you below.

You say it's hard to remind yourself that the cruel things your WS does "aren't intentional"?? Hon, they ARE intentional. That remark about buying a toy for the sweet girl in the office while getting nothing for you was intentionally cold-blooded cruel.

You want him to love you, but nobody can love you when they don't respect you - especially when you are willing to accept disrespect in the name of "love". Right now it's as though he's testing you to see just how much garbage you will take before showing him that you have a crumb of self respect left. You don't have to "love-bust" him in order to show some self respect.

Plan A is one thing, but being a doormat and eating his crap sandwiches is a completely different thing. He is watching you eat a crap sandwich every day and he is enjoying it. That is NOT what Plan A is about and it is NOT going to bring your H back.

You might also want to look at the links in my sig line, especially the first one.

*******************************************************
"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lex,

You have a great point - - Yes, in a way I DO fear exposure.

NOT because I think this is MY fault! NO!

It is because it "feels" to me that it says to the world, "Look,,, obviously there's something wrong with Bugs because her husband didn't want her. In fact, he went out and found someone else".

Did I contibute to bringing my marriage to the point where it was "vunerable" to the affair? YES

Am I RESPONSIBLE for the affair? NO!!

Funny that you used theses words -
.


Last week DD6 told her Daddy that she is tired of going back and forth between our houses.

WS told her that "Mommy & Daddy are having some problems. We were just "fighting too much" It's better this way"

DD6 "But Daddy, parents just do that sometimes! It's OK"

WS "No, it's not, but we're working on it"

When WS told me this story, I waited a momemnt and asked,
"Well, are we working on it?"

WS "I don't know" - then end of conversation.

I don't think of us as always fighting. In fact, we rarely did.

Is that part of the "revision of the past"? I know I've told him several times that the Bugs he has created in his mind is certainly not the Bugs that is here in reality and NOT the Bugs that I am today.

I know,,,,, useless to try to get that thru to him right now. But darn! Sitting back hearing things that just are totally not true is such CR*P!

He is standing firm on his story that NONE of his actions had to do with relationship with OW. That all "happened" (even though nothing happened) AFTER he left me.

Yea,,,, I'm buying THAT story!

You are right, though, he MUST be made to FACE the exposure. I am glad he's returning to work here, as these people know me. Many have known me for 14 years. They are much less likely to support all of the BS and revisionist history he was able to sell to the folks at his other work.

So,,,,,,,,, how do I make this all work in my favor IF he returns to work here?

Took the Exposure advice.

Just had a good email exchange with a male coworker/friend.

He knows us both and took a stand at the very beginning of our sitch that he is a friend to BOTH of us. Told WS that they would be friends as long as WS didn't ask him not to be MY friend as well. This friend been very caring and supportive from the distance that I have kept him thru this whole thing.

It started with an email joke back & forth that he sent me. Moved to a "How are you doing" exchange.

I mentioned in my message that the rumor mill is in high gear over WS relationship with OW. That everything from the are "dating" to "f'ing" is being disucssed.

My friend replied not to pay attention to the rumor mill - as we BOTH have been talked about in the rumor mill over the years and said to have done things that were TOTALLY NOT true. He gave an example of his experience years ago.

I joked back about my previous experience as well & that normally, I totally discount the Rumor Mill.

HOWEVER - there is TRUTH to it this time. I informed him of the home delivery of roses while WS was still living at home with me & the family.

AND I informed him of WS statement that he & OW were "Exploring their feelings for one another".

AND made my point that there is TRUTH to this. He has been unfaithful and how much it hurts me.

Haven't had reply yet from him.

Is THIS the kind of exposure Plan A needs to include???

It's true that this is "conventional wisdom" when it comes to affairs. But Bugs, if you cave in to this you are handing your WH and his OW their affair on a silver platter. Infidels always count on the BS's fear of being blamed for the affair because people will think "her husband didn't want her". Are you going to allow them this and let everyone THINK that's what happened? That's exactly what your WH and his girlfriend want.


This is another thing that cheaters count on. They tell the kids that "Mommy and Daddy just aren't getting along (FOR NO APPARENT REASON) and so they have to separate." Again, the cheaters count on the BS's embarrassment and humilation to cover for them not only with friends and family but with the children, too.

So, since they never hear any different, the friends and family just assume they were right and there IS something wrong with the BS and the WS IS justified in going outside the marriage.

So, since they never hear any different, the children just assume that married couples naturally fall apart after a while. They learn that problems are caused by spending too much time together and that problems are cured by spending time apart.

Even a 6-year-old can understand "Daddy has a girlfriend" or "Mommy has a boyfriend" and "Married people are not supposed to have girlfriends/boyfriends."

Children can handle the truth. They can't handle lies and deception and confusion.

Please think about this.
Mulan

Mulan,

Ok, some of the facts/truth about Exposure are making sense to me now.

If I don't speak out, then there IS only one side of the story out there. DUH! As i slap my hand to my forehead!

I can see that I have to be PRO-ACTIVE when it comes to speaking the truth. Not only to WS, but to EVERYONE.

What DO I have to hide??? Nothing!

What does WS have to hide? EVERYTHING!

Got it! Doesn't mean I'm ready to go shouting to the world, but I'm starting to Get it.

THANKS!

Now, about the kids.

I tell them how much I love them. How much I love their Daddy and want us to be together as a family.

I do NOT say anything negative about him to either of the kids. I'm certainly not going tell them that Daddy has a girlfriend.

So,,other than that,,, what DO I say to them?

Hey All!

Still waiting to hear some advice on communication with the kids from my post above. Welcome all thoughts!

WS came by for DSS12. Was keeping up his aloof posture. He had taken the day off. Saw the dr. Has a touch of pneaumonia & sinus infection, but doing ok.

He took some traffic tickets to his lawyer for me - Joked that I really owed him because while this guy is a great lawyer, he talks ALOT!

I listened to stories about his day that involved work AND mention of the OW in those stories. I was SO proud of myself for no LBs during that conversation! I do have to admit, though, my tongue is sore from where I bit down hard on it!!!

He tried hard to get outta the house fast. BUT - - as I have pulled myself up by my bootstraps & again dedicated myself to Plan A, I did not let him escape so easily!

I went behind him and gave him a hug. Wrapped my arms all the way around and then started to give him a back rub. He let me do if for a a brief minute and then pulled away, saying -

"if you keep that up, you're going to have to take it even further"

Bugs "Well, that was what I was hoping for! " [color:"blue"] [/color] Batting my eyelashes & moving in closer!!

WS - Laughed and turned away.

Bugs Kept right on Smiling!

Followed him in the other room, played with the kids as everyone said their goodbyes.

WS game me pretty good hugs,,,, but those "pats" What are those "pats" that make it SO CLEAR that they are only hugging you out of guilt or obligation? YUCK!!

Bugs Kept Right on Smiling -

I gave great hugs back, kiss on the neck and an "I love you" on the way out the door!

That's a NEW element in my Plan A action list - I have not always (in fact rarely) said I Love You to him every time I see him or talk to him. I DO say it now - EVERY time! I can tell he's not crazy about that right now, but too darn bad!

FELT GREAT to be back on track in Plan A! Didn't feel one bit down about the yucky hugs!!

Later, I sent WS text message -

"DD6 is asleep. I'm soaking in the tub. Sorry you didn't take me up on my earlier offer as I'm feeling really H**ny. Well, I'll figure something out about that. Get some rest & feel better"

Well, MUCH to my surprise, WS came knocking at the door about 30 minutes later!! I was lying on the couch writing in my journal, so it was obvious to him that he was NOT expected.

However, I did SHOW him how GLAD I was that he was there.

It was nice after. He made a point to do a lot of holding and stroking my hair.

If I were feeling down, I would have taken this as his guilt getting the best of him, but I am thinking (an hopefully I'm right) that this is a sign of the CONFLICT that he feels?

He wants me,,,,,,he loves me,,,,,but he's dedicated himself to the path of us being apart to the point that he doesn't know if or how he can change that path and come home??

Is that POSSIBLE or am I giving myself a sunshine enema?

TRUTH tellers only, please! [color:"blue"] [/color]

I think your situation is very different than Lilsis's.
I think your husband is much closer to being out of his affair. I think his affair is dying, and won't last much longer. I think he and OW are still in contact, and clinging to the last bit of feeling their affair can drag up.

But its nearly over.

And it sounds like you're doing an excellent Plan A.

Do some brainstorming on how else you can meet his needs.

Thanks Lex!

Praying you are right! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So, here's a question - - -

Let's say the Affair ends,,,,,,,,,,,do all other aspects of Plan A and Plan B pretty much apply until the WS commits to trying to save the marriage?

Quick post before I'm outta here for the day.

NO word since this morning from WS. Am hoping he went to counseling today, but I do not know if he rescheduled from last week or not.

I just left him a VM. I have a dinner with a co-worker from out of town tonight. Am hoping it will be quick. I am glad not to be sitting home on a night WS has kids.

[color:"black"] [/color] Again - - QUESTION FROM ABOVE POST - -

Do Plan A & Plan B continue to apply when WS has ended the affair, but not come home or committed to working on the marriage??
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Anyone????

yes....still follow the exact order.

Plan A to show him you are willing and able to meet the needs you didn't before. (that last post was an awesome example of that by the way!)

Expose to anyone else who will pressure him to do the right thing. Including work. Don't be afraid of this, its your greatest weapon.

Plan B when you feel you can't continue. No more than a few months in Plan A, then go to B.

Its going to be really difficult for you to know if he is out of the affair, or just saying he's out of the affair. But trust me, the only reason he is not home is because of the affair.

How good is your spying? I know its hard to hear some of these things, but better to know what you are up against.
Can you hide a digital recorder in his car?

Good morning!

Spoke with kids on way home from dinner last night. Spoke to WS for just a moment. Nothing special.

Although he did make a point to let me know he hadn't been able to speak with attorney about my tickets, but that he would be sure to speak with him today.

I like that he is willing to help me with this, but am keeping it in perspective. He's done the same thing for friends and co-workers, so it's not anything above and beyond "just for me".

Sent a text later just to say "Good night, Sweet dreams, Love you"

I didn't hear from DD6 as I usually do in the mornings when WS had them the night before. I saw WS car pulling in to drop DD6 off at daycare, so I pulled in behind.

DD6 was thrilled to see me. Just a quick Hello and love you with her. WS made a point to stand as far back as possible. I made a comment about them not calling, "Is your phone on?"

WS "Yes, we tried to call you twice"

Bugs, "Really? Which phone?"

WS "Both the house and your cell"

Bugs " Funny, no calls showed up on my cell".

Said bye to DD6, smiled at WS, and turned to my car.

WS "You doing ok?"

Bugs smiling "Yep, doing great! See ya later"

Now, I WAS very mad because he flat out lied about calling my cell phone. Why? Who knows,,,, who cares. Just silly.

Got over it pretty quick but was concerned for just a minute about the way I just breezed outta there. Didn't reach out to him at all the way I have been.

But, I've decided that's OK. I don't think it was any LB and am hoping it showed him that while I love & care, I'm not always on pins and needles begging for his attention.

Lex - - Thanks for the above answer!

You are right, it will be hard to know if he really is out of the affair. My spying is pretty non-existent right now with him living where he is and working where he does. Doubt I could get the recorder in.

HOWEVER -

There is HOPE! If he does start working at the office where I "think" he will be working soon (back wtih the same company where I am), one of my BF works in that same office.

They were friends, too, when he worked here before. So,,,, she will now be able to INFLUENCE as well as keep her eyes and ears open for me!

EVEN BETTER - - I've brought her into the MB "family" so to speak. She and her H are going thru a very hard time right now. I told her about the website and she is using it daily. Even has her H reading and using the material, too!

So,,,,,some potential good things on the horizon.

Have a great day everyone!!!

Just some random thoughts this morning.

It seems that WS is trying to create more distance between us one baby step at a time.

For instance, last night he picked up kids from sitters. He stopped at our house to feed dog, pick up mail, and clothes for DD6 overnight stay.

While there, they took DSS12's PS2 game and set it up at WS's place last night.

Then, this am, WS just calls and asks for the last 4 digits of my SS#.

I immediately gave him the information, even though mentally my first question was "WHY?"

WS tells me he was on the phone with cell company. He is changing the billing for DSS12's phone to be combined with FIL cell phone bill. The bill had been coming to me separately, as I had purchased the phone and set up the service in my name.

It's just little things like this that are radmomly floating in my brain today,,,,,making me wonder about little things that appear to create more distance between us.

On the flip side of this thought process - - -

He hasn't come out with any actions, requests, or conversations with ME to move any further towards D.

He hasn't brought up the subject of a financial discussion so he can move out of FIL's house and get an apartment

In fact, I know he just paid the same bills as always last night.

Thoughts - - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Opinions - - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Insights????

I just returned from IC and am feeling great!

Lots of positive changes are happening that I don't always realize until I sit down and talk them out with her. She helped me to really SEE some of the BIG changes I have made and how I've started to ACT on them - often without realizing it.

The MB prinicipals have really helped me with making those changes, too! Thanks everyone for your amazing insights,,, on all of the threads on the Board!

Ok - - To the LIE - - -

last week the IC canceled WS's appt due to illness. Shouldn't be a big deal,,, right?

Well, the problem is three fold -

1. This is the 2nd time she has canceled an appt AFTER WS is in the office for the appt

2. Receptionist told WS that she talked to IC on the phone and that she was on her way

3. 15 minutes LATER, receptionist told WS that IC was having to cancel because she was sick.

VERY unprofessional,,,,I AGREE with WS on that and understand his frustration.

So,,,,, what did I lie about?

WS asked me if I discussed his not having rescheduled his appt during MY session today, I said no.

THAT is the lie.

In fact, I was the one that brought it up to her as one of the things I wanted to talk about. I said that I didn't think he had rescheduled. I told her that he had expressed how upset he had been about last week. That they had opened up a lot of issues and that he felt she had really left him haning out there with a lot of "stuff" and no way to deal with it.

I asked her to reach out to him to re-schedule. I expressed how I am sure it is necessary for him to complete whatever issues they are working on from his past. I believe he will in no way be ready/able to work on our M issues until that is completed. AND I believe that having dealt with that stuff will make him BETTER able to work thru the M issues as well.

Ok,,,,,,,,,,,so do I own up to WS that I lied?

WHY did I lie??

I didn't want him to think that I was interfering with what he views as working on his "personal" issue. I don't want him to think I was trying to force him down a path that he may not want to go. They have dug up some major things that he has shared with NO ONE, not even me.

So,,,,,,, BRING IT ON! PLEASE!!!

Do I own up to it?

I'm really unsure. I don't have advice for you either way.
I believe in radical honesty -- but only in recovery, not while you're trying to get there.

Glad you're feeling UP! Its easier to Plan A that way.
Have you thought about how long you want to work Plan A?

Yes, I have thought about it. My plan is until the end of April.

My thinking has been that it would be about 3 1/2 months. Going to Plan B the first of May.

If WS decides to proceed with Plan D, I need to have an idea of what I am going to do. In the brief mentions he's made to any thoughts he as about post D arrangements, he mentioned that he wants to live in this house. Right now he is living at his Dad's

I will move back closer to my family, which is just over an hour away. They are my great support and will be there to help with DD6. I have no family close where we are,,,, just WS's family.

Based on that scenario, I will need to buy a house before the beginning of next school year for DD6.


Our plans prior to all of this was that we were building a new house in the area of my family anyway. In fact, we bought land already. We were in process of getting this place to sell and getting other family business in order to start on the house.

One MONTH prior to DDay, we had just settled on the house plans! So, when the WS says to me after DDay, "How can you say you are surprised by any of this?" I think back to where I "thought" we were.

Funny, how you are living you life and all of a sudden you are slapped with the realization that you knew NOTHING about what was really happening!

WS came by to pick up DSS12. Was distant at first, but warmed up just a little by time he left. I think I even heard a very quiet "love you too" on the way out the door.

You are right, Lex, Plan A is so much easier when I'm feeling up beat! Just gotta keep riding that wave thru to the end!!

I have to call WS with a message that was on our recorder. It has to do with his application for the new job. I plan to come clean about the IC lie I told earlier.

HONESTY & OPENESS is one of my big ENs. If I am to expect that from WS, I need to live it myself. I know it can be dangerous at this stage of the game. We all know that WS are not being honest with themselves or with us. Am hoping to "lead by example" with this one.

I'd rather have him mad at my for thinking I was interfering than to be upset for a LIE. Lesser of 2 evils kind of thinking. I'm not as concerned about him thinking I interfered 1. because he asked if I talked to IC about it 2. I asked him if I should have 3. I did it with the right motives

Those being that he get help with his issues to get past them, grow and be a happier, healthier person. AND that I know it will help our M issues as well. The IC and I even talked about this. That I own up to that part of my wanting him to go to counseling is "selfish" in that it is vital to the recovery of our marriage. HOWEVER, I know that the recover of our marriage is the best thing for BOTH of us.

Hope the call with WS goes well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />