I will stand by my comment to you. As I explained before...tell me you don't believe it to be a baby or that the child does not experienece suffering and I will attempt to educate you. Tell me that even if you knew the child would suffer while it was being cut up and I say that is a bad person.

That's just my opinion.



I think your own words about say it all!

Is expressing your opinion or having personal standards equivilent to forcing morals down peoples throats?

no

Is there something inherently offensive in saying...fail to meet this standard and fellowship with me is not an option?

no

You must be this tall to enter a relationship with me?

perfectly fine ... in fact, desirable

I absolutely support personal standards over marriage recovery.

me too

My belief is if the price of recovery is my self respect the price is too high.

"too high" also includes ignoring one's own relationship with God

ie; accepting porn as part of the marriage 'recovery'

I apply that belief to all my posts and am happy to consider myself a bigot on the issue.

[b]I apply my standards strictly to those I allow in my inner sanctum

but there are more distant less intimate relationbships I must overlook flaws in order to get along

ie; my views on abortion or adultery or alcoholism ... I still must treat my patients without imposing my values upon them

I tread here very very carefully
I express the importance of balance in one's life ... including SPIRITUAL balance ... I avoid the word morality or God or any tweak of religion ... or I get my [censored] fired

any suggestions what to do with my high standards in less intimate encounters?

IN THAT case, expressing my personal standard is considered shoving it down someone's throat, because of the authority role I may have with people

Pep

I understand your opinion. What would you like me to do with this information from you?

Mys

How about we just do one another a favor and not post to or respond on one anothers threads in the future. Since this is an open forum, you obviously can do as you please... but you asked for a suggestion, I am offering one.

All right. It would have been clearer and much less rude if you'd have just said that in the first place.

Mys

Thank you. And since you have mentioned rude... I would only ask that you go back and read that thread and see if others considered you rude also. I hadn't replied to you back then since others had done a great job of handling your points.
Now, again, I thank you and would like to get back to my thread and our peaceful coexistance.

I agree that refusal to expose doesn't demonstrate much integrity <to me>. Truthfully, I also think that namecalling and bullying doesn't demonstrate much integrity either. How much integrity does it take to post about how some people are worth listening to or not. There's a difference between questioning someone's morality and maligning them. yikes!

However, all of that is outside of my locus of control anyway on an anonymous board. I can influence....sometimes...maybe...or not. What IS within my control....is to whom I post, why and when I post, how I post....and whether I expand my relationship beyond this board with any posters.

Long term, someone who exposes can turn out to be a very immoral person in many other ways. Long term, someone who doesn't expose can end up being an honorable person in many other ways. I've been fooled on this board before by pretenders. I've also underestimated people. We only get a little information really that's why I consider the stuff we know about people from here....as just a bunch of data points. How moral people REALLY are....will never be proven on this board....because people can say whatever they want, and live completely contrary to the persona they present here.

Exposure is a data point, a single act, one of the things that that will be put onto my scale....along with all kinds of other things, when I weigh and measure the people who I want in my life or who I respect.

We have folks here who have exposed but who don't have much integrity. Gosh....how many times have I seen a BS expose and then start dating the minute the WS walked out. I've seen folks expose during plan A and date during Plan B!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <hiding eyes> How many people know pillars of society who seem so respectable and go home and beat their kids? Or choir directors that are sleeping with the minister?

If exposure is the measuring stick....I'm sure there are many many others to measure integrity. By the time we're all measured....none of us will be tall enough or pure enough to be respectable. That's why grace is such an important concept.

In the end....If I am really worried about what anybody else thinks about my integrity....I'm concentrating on the wrong thing. My journey is not about anybody else. No one else's journey is not about me. We can help eachother. We can share our own experiences and opinions. Or we can beat each other up. But no matter what we do....the only person's integrity we can actually control is our own. I'm confident about my own integrity and my own journey to be authentic. I fail. I make mistakes. I'm not perfect. I'll probably not measure up for some people. But I keep exploring and evolving....I'm happy and the people in my life love and respect me.

What's also within my control is whether I let the opinions of others (or how they "rate" people)....dictate how I feel about individual posters. I don't really care if it's popular or unpopular to like someone or to hold a certain belief. I understand that it's really hard to accept people who don't think the same way as you do. I know it's really impossible to accept people who's morals you believe are corrupted. I'm no different. But I don't start a smear campaign to discredit "certain posters".

I let everyone here decide who they want to post to, like, accept, respect, listen to etc. on their own. The idea that someone may need to warn others about certain posters....assumes that the people here are so weak or unintelligent that they NEED to be warned because they can't decide for themselves.

Quote:

I let everyone here decide who they want to post to, like, accept, respect, listen to etc. on their own. The idea that someone may need to warn others about certain posters....assumes that the people here are so weak or unintelligent that they NEED to be warned because they can't decide for themselves.

Agree.

Just hijacking and turning things on their head for a sec for the fun of it...

Personally I find rude outbursty communication to have less pursuasive ability than communication that is designed to not tread on my toes and keep me "open".

I tend to listen to the courtiers with a more watchfull eye than the person standing in a room yelling "HERE'S WHAT I THINK!".

Of course this is all reliant on my biased belief that everyone has an agenda.

I don't even mind a person yelling "HERE"S WHAT I THINK (or what I FEEL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) I just have a problem w/ people yelling that everybody should feel what they think.

you made an interesting comment noodle...that everybody has an agenda to some degree......even if it's furthering productive discussion.....i hadn't thought of that as an agenda, but I suppose it is.
why is it that words like agenda and liberal have such negative connotations lately?

oops, sorry about continued TJ...i just caught up w/ this thread today.

LOL...well of course if you agree with them it isn't doing anyhting of the sort..it's just right..savvy?

[yes I recently watched POTC]

Well, Mys is willing to stand up for what she believes.
how is she different...to you?

Agree that Mys is 100% consistent [or closer to it than me for sure].

Myschae 99 and 84/100 % pure.

[can anyone guess the reference?]

MEDC,

Do you know the line between disrespect and abuse?

"I will stand by my comment to you." The one you made where you judged another myschae as "a sad excuse for a human."

When you define others, you are being abusive. Doesn't own a thing...God's design was that we cannot judge others' essence...only their actions. You know that. When you do it...when you tell someone else who they are, or are not, you are abusive.

I believe God shudders. I believe you don't want that.

Abuse has no excuse...get to your permissions inside and find that false payoff.

And I believe such defining cuts off what you're really trying to communicate...you may feel appalled, at a loss, perceive you are isolated, threatened, scared...lots of stuff...and that doesn't get acknowledged, owned or even understood inside you for taking the shortcut to judgment.

If you hold yourself to the standard of not abusing others...then you cannot enforce boundaries when others cross that line...God's two-way street. Won't yield, twist or change.

To me, I see you as reacting to a lot of abuse-like issues...withholding truth, abusing limits, attacking integrity...could this be a signal of the permissions you have in yourself, when you perceive they reach a high enough level, that you allow yourself to do that which you most abhor?

I was like that before...and my levels weren't at all high...imbalance can physically, mentally and emotionally hurt...real pain...generating extreme anger...from our own imbalance.

When you respect others' opinions, then you respect your own...when you don't, you really don't. Every human on the planet was made from God's hands, complete and whole...you know that. All of them. Their opinions hold no more power than your own...you are as limited as they are, by God's design...and you are equal...and so are they. Know when you abuse so you can choose differently.

Please. You are intolerant of abuse...stop doing it. Only you define you...and no one else.

LA

I also think MEDC is very consistent but differently.

He is very *issue* invested.

I predict with a fair degree of certainty that if we strongly disagreed tomorrow he would tell me to go to h*ll without hesitation.

LA... we are different. Of that I will not lie. You have your way of looking at things... and I have mine. I respect your view and opinion. But I will tell you... IMHO, if the world did not have people like me that were willing to look at another and say... "NO, you are dead wrong about this... or that accepting pedophiles makes you a bad person". then we would live in a society where every conceivable horror is just accepted as someones expression of who they are. Sorry... but I have lived in the real world and have seen the horrors inflicted on children, women and those unable to fight for themselves. I use my voice... you may perceive it as coming from a place of weakness and I think you are wrong... to help bring to light that which I believe to be horrible and unjust. Others who have professed to be people of conscience have sat by and watched these horrors and have done nothing. Sorry, that is not me and will never be me. I ppreciate you pointing out your way... but it is not and never will be my way. What you perceive to be weakness, I consider a strength...and honestly LA I used to be like you but feel the world needs people that will stand and be counted. That is my role and if it means I will call evil by its name... I will do so. So yes, I react to abuse type situations and feel driven to do so.
I will tell you that this is an issue I have discussed in IC and even with a priest back when I was still a cop (and a catholic). Both of their opinions and those around me support my beliefs and willingness to judge or define behaviors as I see them. I am comfortable with that aspect of my life and know that you see things differently. I am okay with who I am.... and the running joke among my friends is that when I die my tombstone will read... "do the right thing."
Again, thank you for your words...they are appreciated.

I believe most people are pretty fluid.. and can grow and change.. Unchanging equals stagnant. I try to grow. I have done things I'm ashamed of. Like namecalling in anger, and other angry outburst behaviors. Others might define me by those behaviors I have tried painstakingly to shed.

In our situation we did reveal to the MOWs husband. My husband had recommitted to the marriage. The MOWs husband reacted violently. Still my husband apologized to him and answered him with impressive radical honesty.


What I stated on a similar discussion is that I don't want anyone telling me of anything else in the past.

IF my husband did do anything else, it escaped my radar, i.e. my husband continued treating me with loving care, unlike what happened in the affair he confessed to me two years ago. He has said there's nothing else to tell, and I believe him, but if there was something else long ago, since he does in fact have a notoriously bad memory, neither of us are the same people we were long ago.

I don't care about anything if there is anything, and I prefer to let it go anyway. So the only motivation someone would have to give me that information (which I would be very skeptical of) is as an attempt to harm my new marriage. We have both grown and changed.

I have grown and changed too. I owe Noodle an apology.

Noodle I'm so sorry I said hurtful things to you in the past, (even though you're a big girl and I somehow think it was water off your back) I still want to apologize to you for my own sake.

I have learned a lot more than than just Marriage Building from my time here. (Thank you LA.)

MEDC - You know we are usually on different sides of things, but I always respect your opinion.

There have been a lot of studies that look at what happens when a group of people are faced with an emergency or tragedy - like the Kitty genovese incident in New York, where a woman was stabbed to death on the street, while neighbors watched. Experts found that when people are in a group, they tend to leave it to someone else to do something.

There have been numerous other instances, people dying at hazings from alcohol OD, where no one called for help even when the victim was having convulsions.

I appreciate folks like you, because I think that you are a person who WOULD do something.

Very ISSUE invested! Wonderful way to put it!

And while I have disagreed with many here... Believer comes to mind as to someone I have not always seen eye to eye with...I will say my peace and for the most part will be fine with you as a person. I don't mind disagreeing.... what I do mind is ANYONE that sits back and either is an advocate for or is accepting of abuse in any form. I stand for the things I believe in....always will.... even if I ruffle a few feathers. It's just me... always will be!

Example... I was out on a date years ago... outdoor restaurant, nice night. I am sitting there and as any cop will tell you, I see everything... well a man walks by a table (he's not a customer) and grabs the tip money left for the waitress. Others saw him and said NOTHING. I jumped up from my seat and chased him down the block... dragged him back to the restaurant.. made HIM put the tip money back on the table. Grabbed a local squad car and had him locked up for DC. Now... I sit back down... my date is frantic... people start clapping...but did one person follow me to see if I was okay or to help... NO.... okay, that was their choice. But without someone willing to stand up and be counted that waitress losses her money. It's just the way I am... no apologies. I look at every abuse the same way.
Funny thing is... that same man...if he had said to me that he was just hungry...and not just a theif... I would have still made him put the money back... but I would have bought him soemthing to eat.