And your point is.................._________. ?

If LG wasn't valued by us we wouldn't waste our time trying to help he and his wife. The "value to the board" is by far outweighed by our wish to assist he and his wife getting this important and necessary concept.

I will not give him a free pass just because we need a FWH around here...I want he and his wife to achieve a fully recovered marriage.

Should he and his wife decide to keep the secret and he chooses to stick around (which I hope he will after he licks his wounds...I've been there and know it's tough to take one in the chin here so I suggest he just take a couple days, talk with his wife and come back soon), I believe that 99% of his posts hereafter will be very valuable. I want him to achieve 100% otherwise he'll get called out again and again until he eventually does, in fact, leave. Not because "we" chased him off but rather because his position is indefensible to me and quite a few others.

BTW LG and Mrs. LG. Our position will become so obvious to you AFTER you expose. You may not think it's a problem but once it's over...you both will feel relief and KNOW it was the right thing to do.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Every recovered alcoholic comes to a point in recovery where they are out to dinner with friends and the conversation turns to gossip about someone who is not present at the table. Someone will disparage, in hushed tones, that the person is an alcoholic and somehow less than human. At that point, the recovered alcoholic hearing this can either empathize with the alcoholic they are disparaging and get upset or feel personally attacked and insecure OR disassociate themselves from their prior lives and personally feel nothing (not insecure nor hostile) regarding such remarks.

That's the problem here. Without full exposure LG and Mrs. LG will be STUCK in continuing recovery. This issue, the "secret", will remain a insecurity. When this issue arises on MB, which it always does from time to time, LG will be defensive and feel the need to "explore the gray areas" regarding this issue. Yes, he is a FWS and will remain a FWS but at some point, I think, the FWS needs to become a RWS (recovered Wayward Spouse) where the differences between the "sides" become irrelevant.


Edited to add - Go tigers, expose and I'll treat you to a round of golf next summer when you visit Detroit.

Perhaps because that is NOT what was said.

I will say that I agree with others here... LG should stay.... but he will be called out by me and others for not notifying the OBS... I have told him time and again he offers very valuable insight... but that in and of itself does not warrant letting this major insult to BS on this board and to the very BS that LG has harmed. I hope he does stay...I hope he mans up and notifies the OBS of his actions.... he owes that to that person...yes, even if his BW is not on board.

JMHO. And if I tucked tail and ran everytime someone called me on things, I would have been gone my first month here. LG has a choice to stay or go... and anyone that thinks I could run him off affords me too much power.

Again, I hope he corrects this major oversight and decides to stay.

At some point you really are just a spouse and a person.

At some point the affair no longers has the same definative power in your life that it once did.

To get to that point you pretty much have to face every unpleasant monster you might expect to find under your bed and kill it.

edited to add: My refusal to allow persons who would fail to disclose in my life has nothing to do with their affair status and everything to do with the ruthless selfishness they have just demonstrated with that act. I would never turn my back on them for a moment.

Noodle - Thankyou.

You just made me realise something.

I'm finished identifying myself as a FBS etc.

I'm a spouse and a person who is greatly loved.

Thankyou.

I posted a new thread relating to this and the thread on "Don't Get Stuck" about how valuable LG's input was/is to my H and me in helping our marriage get 'unstuck' as we rebuild trust. Sorry, don't know how to link and no time to figure out how.

Ace

[color:"red"] BELIEVER [/color]



incorrect
they never stopped being wayward
they maintained the wayward mentality
they put wayward behavior *on hold* (perhaps, but who knows?) ... those with wayward mentality leave MB forum because their wayward mentality is unappreciated and unloved and is called on the carpet

any wayward who spends enought time on MB reading about the absolute heartbreak that adultery brings ... and then volunteers herself/himself and the family for more heartbreak is either very stupid or heartless ... you choose

Believer, if the OW who tried to ruin my marriage came to MB to sincerely help her marriage, I'd do everything I could to help her with that goal.

Believer, if you spend much times defending the still wayward wives ~because you emailed them~ , I'd have to say my ideas about the principles you stand for were incorrect.

I get emails all the time from formally wayward ... the ones who want to learn how to repair their marriage deserve my respect. The others do not.

principles above personalities

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Personally, I believe that the BS should always be told. However, I would not call out a person by name here. If someone ASKED me, I would tell them my thoughts.

I post to, and listen to people all the time here who don't exemplify my principles. This is a discussion board.
I post to lesbians, atheists, and even folks who crate their dogs.

I have a heart for the FWS's here and even most of the WS's.

believer, being an enabler to waywards is not a sign of having a 'heart." There is nothing kind or "compassionate" about enabling cruelty. Not to mention blaming others for their cruelty.

I still maintain that it is better for WS's to be here posting and reading than to be run off. I maintain they have been run off, and THAT is why there are so few (one WH) posting.

*****EDIT************
Thanks!

[color:"red"]Believer [/color]

I don't care who you communicate with, truely I don't (unless it is with MY husband without my knowledge) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

my objection is that you implied that MB posters "ran off" STILL wayward wives

and that is [color:"red"] FALSE[/color] ... it will be false tomorrow too

if a WW leaves it is because MB posters made her UNcomfortable and she did not feel "support" for remaining wayward ... and I say >>> SO WHAT?

Pep

And that is certainly your right, to do as you please...This thread was a call out to LG and his wife to HELP them when Mr. W and myself saw that they were doing something that we STRONGLY believe will hinder their recovery and that completetly IGNORES the other victim...It is a matter of OUR principles...

And though, you may not ever have "called out" anyone on a thread, that has certainly not stopped you from talking about them on other threads...IMO, is it far more disrespectful to talk ABOUT someone, rather than to talk TO them...


Again, you are welcomed to post to any folks that you have something to say to or feel that you can help...Same standard that Mr. W and I use...


And so do Mr. W and myself...I AM a FWS and Mr. W is MARRIED to one (ME!)...I resent the implication...

Mrs. W

I catch flack about being "soft" on exposure....but really....I'm not arguing about exposure (a concept I not only suggest, but believe in) on these threads. I'm arguing against censorship and about the intolerance for any diversity in opinion about this and other issues. I'm arguing about the hyper-focus on this one issue at the expense sometimes of other important considerations or strategies. For instance....a SAHM might want to secure some separate finances before launching work-related exposure. I'm concerned that new people get this advice before even being welcomed or hearing their whole situation. I'm also concerned that people who've been here a long time....and don't think exposure is right for them....really get continuously hammered.

I support exposure....but I also support the right not to choose exposure. I'm responsible for my own integrity....no one else's. Having integrity for me is, in part....recognizing the humanity and imperfection of everyone.....recognizing that even good people with integrity may not think or act or believe the same things I do.

I understand those folks who consider "exposure" not just a marriage recovery/affair ending strategy, but an issue of moral integrity. It's the path I would choose for myself too. I struggle somewhat when people decide what is "moral" for everyone or what defines "integrity" for everyone.

I'm not talking about morality being "subjective" either. I believe there are some reasonable guidelines of restraint for integrity and morality.

But I also believe that I can have some substantive differences between my views and the views of others....without assuming those people lack integrity or morality just because they make different choices than I would.

One example might be that even though my Jewish friend and I don't look at Christ in the same way....it doesn't mean that my friend lacks integrity. I don't share all of her views....but it's clear to me that she acts true to her character and faith. I don't agree with the Pope on the role of women in the church (I might go so far as to say they may be "immoral")....but I think he has alot of integrity. Conversely, I see all the charitable work of Angelina Jolie....and I still think she has NO integrity. My friend Myschae is an atheist and I find her to have great integrity. In other words....integrity is a bigger than one issue, or one snapshot in time. It is about how you live your life as a whole. Exposure is a good indication of a moral conviction not to harm anyone else, and good indication of a life with integrity....but it's only a good indication it's not the whole shebang. Every person who has integrity also has sin...has failings...makes mistakes. I look at failure to exposure in an otherwise moral life in the context of that life.

I think there are people on this board who will never expose who have great integrity....I also think there are plenty of people who will expose broadly and loudly and have none.

Well, I am not sure what **************when you suggest that members here have caused a wayward wife to go back to her wayward ways and that anyone here has the power to "run off" anyone. But, it can't be too good.

No one here "ran off" your wayward friends, believer. It is patently false to say that anyone here "ran them off." They go where they will find the LEAST resistance for their wayward ways, and that, unfortunately, seems to be YOU. And NOT this board.

Thanks Starfish - finally someone who sees the big picture.

Again with the implications...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I liked it better when you were the "greeter" around here...What are the chances we could go back to that???

Mrs. W

So, if I am hearing you correctly... you support exposure... BUT, you feel it is okay for others to choose to keep a BS in the dark if they so choose? Am I hearing that correctly?

Wow...this looks like one of the battles I always used to end up embroiled in!

Personally, I can completely see Believer's viewpoint. And Starfish's.

I maintain that the focus has always been rebuilding the POSTER'S marriage. Regardless of the posters role in the affair. And on the exposure question, the same thing applies. If exposing to the OPS could result in a violation of an agreement with the BS or further 'betrayel' of that BS (in the marriage that we're trying to assist), then the choice to expose remains a POJA issue. If both parties can't agree, then the needs of the BS should remain paramount.

I also realize that not everyone else on this forum feels that way, and that they will vehemently fight their viewpoint to the end.

Last, I KNOW that Believer is right...there have been any number of WS's that have posted here, been lambasted immediately, and left. Not every WS that comes here is completely ready to totally face up to their guilt immediately...it takes time for them to work up to that point. If they come here before that point, the odds are very high that they won't be 'guided' or 'assisted' to that point...they'll feel immediately attacked and judged and will leave. No shock...who wants to stay where they feel that way? Anyone? Bueller?

Now, if we managed to get them to stay, and work with them to begin the recovery process, instead of smashing their faces into the harsh truth (hey, it needs to happen, but its the when and how that are important too), how much more good could we do?

Just throwing my .02 in...and I'm done. Good evening all.

So, the OBS just gets the shaft in your view huh? The forgotten victim??? Hey, we are getting on with our marriage... that poor slob is on his own. Very nice.

And personally, I agree with the Mr. & Mrs W that no one here chases off a WS.... it is the lack of standing that their position has that makes them unable to defend their positions. And anyone that suggests that they were back to being wayward because they were chased off here is way off base. They go back to being wayward because they have no integrity.
Just my 2 cents.

Well I don't know who hid the jedi mind ray but chasing people off has never worked for me.

And dang it I have tried!