I agree ... but she's only an actress ...
most people in that industry function just fine with no discernible integrity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

the discussions in our home on this very subject are entertaining and endless ...

Not always. IMHO, I DO advocate exposing to the OBS. Had OM been married in my situation, I ABSOLUTELY would have ensured that his BS knew. For all of the reasons that you've heard listed...I agree with exposing to OBS. And I strongly feel that it should happen in almost every case.

But...not everyone does. And if the BS (for whatever misguided reason) cannot agree to POJA on this, then I feel that the FWS's FIRST duty is to their own marriage...they shouldn't violate the needs/wants/whatever of their OWN BS to try to fix OP's marriage. Remember, part of recovery is giving up ANYTHING to do with OP...to include making that person's marriage your business.

The only reasons that I personally would consider not exposing would be if I KNEW that NC had been maintained for an extended period of time, and that exposing could be an avenue for OP to contact the FWS...that's a risk not worth taking, IMHO.

And yes, I feel that working on MY marriage should take precedence of working on someone else's. And I would expect anyone who's trying to work on their marriage would likely work under that same premise. Guess I'm just a self-centered SOB.

nevermind.

I totally agree...as long as POJA is reached on the subject. But if for whatever reason the BS will not agree to it, the FWS's FIRST duty is to their own BS and marriage...any action against the BS's wishes would give the indication that the OP's marriage was more important than that of their own...which would be destructive to their own efforts to rebuild their marriage.

Again, I'm saying all of this with this caveat...I'm NOT one of those people who would insist on not exposing to OBS. Again, in my case, if there had been one, I WOULD have insisted that they be told. I'm simply pointing out that there are times when POJA can't be reached on this because the BS doesn't know MB principles and can see the advantage of doing so, or whatever. And when that happens, the FWS's top priority should be their own marriage. Others (including yourself) may not agree...and as you said, we'll agree to disagree. Now, if the FWS can help their BS to understand why it is in their own best interst and GAIN that POJA for exposure...GREAT. No question about what should happen next.

As far as the people I befriended last summer...I had no idea on the whole troll thing going on, just like everyone else. I had no idea what kind of person we were dealing with. But, given that, I still stick by my 'logic' and 'reasoning' that I gave then and now.

Here is my Post to Dr. Harley:

____________________________

Dr. Harley:

First time to post here, but have been on the discussion Boards for a while. I haved reveiwed a number of your threads here and have not found this specific issue addressed. So, please bear with me.

I am the wayward spouse. DDay was 8/4/05. The OW called my BS and told her about our A.

My W had found this Website 2 days before and we were able to glean much information. I ordered HNHN and SAA and even attended with BS the MB Weekend in Philadelphia in Oct 2005.

No Contact with OW has been acheieved, and has been in place since a couple of days after Dday.

The last attempt by OW to contact me was intercepted by my W, (Phone Call on Caller ID, W picked up) and W was very explict to OW what was going to happen next if OW made any more attempts.

However, at that time, or since, we have never contacted OP Spouse to reveal the A. With the knowledge I have now, I believe that revealing to OPS around Dday, or if Contact is continuing, then Exposure to OPS is needed. Because it can be one of the number 1 killers of an A.

My spouse and I have never had a conversation regarding this subject. Early on, yes, we did discuss in passing, and I didn't want her to reveal. Although, we never had a argument or disagreement about it. Meaning, we concentrated on ourselves. And if BS had made it something that she had to do, I think she would have, and I would not have stopped her. And after the above noted telephone conversation, the issue never came up again. BS does have some regrets not having told OPS, just to have created the same pain for OW as she was going thru.

So. I have been challenged by others to "Man-up" and reveal to OPS about what his W was doing to him for 4.5 years. OP have since gotten divorced, and OW has moved out of this state. OP Spouse is still near by. Wife and I will have a conversation about this, and us POJA to decide which way to go. As an aside, many people know of my A. My W did tell a number of friends/her boss/others about it. So, it is not "Still a Secret" for me.

Our recovery is going quite well. And if I was to describe the problems to overcome, this isn't one of them.

My questions to you are:

Should I reveal to OP Spouse from a MB point of View about the nature of the A and it's extent?

What questions should I ask, and what points should I discuss with my BS in regards to this? Pros/Cons?

And if we POJA to notify, what type of communication should it be, and what should it say?

And last:
Dr Harley, from a morality point of view, it is the right thing to do. I understand this. And the overwhelming reason to do so. But, what does it accomplish 18 months later? 36 Months Later? 5 years?

_____________________

And Dr Harley's response:


lousygolfer: I'll answer your questions in the order you asked them:

Should I reveal to OP Spouse from a MB point of View about the nature of the A and it's extent?

The primary reason to reveal the affair to lover's spouse (OPS) is to gain support in breaking up the affair. But when the affair is already over, that reason is lost. A secondary reason is for altruistic reasons -- the OPS should know that the affair took place (you would want to know if the tables were turned). But for the practical reason of helping your marriage, I regard it as optional, and should be done only if you both enthusiastically agree to it.

What questions should I ask, and what points should I discuss with my BS in regards to this? Pros/Cons?

If you both enthusiastically agree that it should be revealed, I would give the OPS any evidence you have (email, voicemail, etc.) to prove that the affair took place. Even when a WS confesses to the OPS, he often doesn't want to believe it. I would also let your wife make the call, and answer whatever questions she has.

And if we POJA to notify, what type of communication should it be, and what should it say?

See above.

And last:
Dr Harley, from a morality point of view, it is the right thing to do. I understand this. And the overwhelming reason to do so. But, what does it accomplish 18 months later? 36 Months Later? 5 years?

It's moral in the sense that you are helping your spouse's lover come to grips with his problem. Hopefully, they will go through the same process you followed, and their marriage will not only be successful, but they will have prevented future affairs. Remember, though; your wife is to have absolutely no contact with her former lover. You should make the call just in case he answers. When his wife is on the line, you can turn the phone over to your wife. It may be a good idea for you to both be on the phone at the same time talking to the OPS.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

______________________________

Comments?

at my job
I got this email (one among a bazillion they put out)
that 'splains the difference between policy vs guideline

according to my employer

policies are statements of principles/requirements for handling particular circumstances

policies direct conduct
when the orginization is under scrutiny by regulators, policies are reviewed to determine expectations and can be used as evidence

guidelines (according to the people who write this stuff) are non-binding tools that suggest processes, tasks, or activities
guidelines are used to achieve implimentation of policies

so it depends on how one sees the situation ...

is this a policy
or a guideline ?

Pep

Whoo-hoo, can I answer that?! No, I wouldn't have stayed, and now look at me, outta da fog and loving my hubby, he's happy, we're happy, all is pretty good. If I hadn't stuck around, I would not be where I am now, I'm sure of it.