Sorry for confusing everyone... MEDC, I won't lie to her.. but I didn't do this! She had some dream or something last night that she was wrecking our home and now she wants to hear me say she's not - and I guess, since I'm the one who "wrecked the home", she is blameless - as you said, I am (2) weeks away from a divorce. Maybe I should just let it go.
I've never been so sorry in my entire life. Wish I had come here before I went there, you know?

Do NOT call. Do NOT wait for her call and as far as inroads with a WS.....not a good idea.

Save that for your real H.

L.

Part of recovering your personal integrity is to lead a truthful life from here on out. Right?

So as much as you want to protect small inroads of hope with your BH, please don't lie for him.

That is *never* the way to go.

Best of luck to you as you recover your 'self'.

Most likely the divorce will happen.... but again, it does not need to be an ending. Just work on you and the rest will fall into line if he is available. Your BH is going to notice genuine change in your future. For right now... back off... be still as far as he is concerned. Tell him your plan.
I am going to work on these things in my life.
I hope to one day be strong enough to be your wife again.
I will never speak to the OM again.... NEVER!

Make a plan and stick to it.

EXACTLY!!!!!

So, I guess it's time to roll up my sleeves and get started on figuring "me" out.
I feel like I need to go away to a secluded beach or out in the desert or something so my mind can find itself absent of both H & OM... does that make any sense? Not with him, Not with other him, guess that leaves just me. Not really sure where to go with myself.
Counseling - that's the first step I think, but I have to tell you - I hate all of that stuff. Where does one even begin?
Thought I would pick up some of the books here His Needs/Her Needs (i'll just reverse them!), etc.

Other forums I should take a look @ on this site?
Thanks all - you've been great - well actually, some of you really ticked me off - and some of you almost hurt my feelings... but it was well worth it. Seeping myself in positive thoughts about my H and M have had dramatic impact - that & some help from above.

Yep....Best of luck!

i would tell your H that you feel you should be honest with his "friend" if she calls

because you have decided that lies are what led you to where you are now and that's no longer who you want to be

i believe this woman should know the truth and she should have the right to do what she feels is best

just as you and your H are going to do

and honestly

i'm downright dissapointed that he would be lying to someone he's trying to build a relationship with and wants you to lie to her


he should tell her the truth abouthos he feels about the entire situation

and let her make her own decisions

Well, not to beat a dead horse, but she did call and she wasnted to be sure I didn't see her as a "homewrecker" and I told her what I said before, I am the one that wrecked my home. At one point I said, "Why is it you are asking me these questions - aren't you in a relationship with him?" And turns out she pretty much thinks all men just say whatever they think you want to hear, at which point I let her know that she had a lot to learn about him and what kind of man he is if she's going to assume he is feeding her a line. And that was pretty much it. Oh yeah, I did tell her that I was working on me and that I hoped that would show H I was changing some things about myself and allow him to see me in a better light than my behavior has allowed of late. Not really sure how she took that - but c'est la vie!

And Eav, he tells her the truth, she leaves, and then all he has left is being alone, or with me... and that's just really not much of a choice - especially when you're him. Not saying it's right. Quite to the contrary.

LostSheep,

Well, well what a mess. I have read all of your posts. You have been given very good advice, and while it may seem so it is really NOT in conflict with one another. MEDC I believe has been right on to call you on your attitude about your H. If it does not change you have no business in his new life.

Pep, gave you some great insight into your issues, and MEDC asked the magical question about your past. It is not just a little thing, it is huge. It has been shown time after time after time, that past abuse often reflects in how a couple relates and it is NEVER for the better. Address it.

Now for the issue of your H's GF. Let me offer you a solution. You do as others have said, be honest with her. But, quite honestly it is YOU that wants to rebuild or make amends, not your H at this point. So you offer her YOUR views of things. BUT, before you do this, you call your H and you tell him that you will be honest about YOUR feelings to the GF, but you will NOT speculate upon HIS feelings for her or for you. You can and should tell him that you have decided to be radically honest from now on out, no matter how the marriage goes (IF YOU REALLY MEAN IT).

Then if he does not like your choice ask him to offer you some ideas where you can be honest with GF while NOT hurting him. This is called a negotiation and it has a term on this site. Harley calls it the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA.

If your H is THE MAN you really want to spend your life with you will find out in the coming months. Right now he seems to have a woman that cares for him, respects him, and wants to be with him. Your H is married to a woman that has not demonstrated any of those things for four years. MEDC has been dead on in my opinion in challenging your thinking.

You seem to have turned a corner, but it has only been a few days out of four years. You will need to show consistency, an understanding of why you did what you did, an understanding of why you want your H in your life. Frankly, you have a long way to go. Your negative feelings about his ability to satisfy you, your ability to transfer to him your failings, and your inability to really talk to him will take considerable effort to overcome. They can be overcome, but what MEDC is challenging and I would as well, is whether or not you have it in you to do it and stick with it.

A lot of damage has been done, and you are probably thinking mostly to your H. He has in fact been severely damaged, not by your affair, but by your lies, your disrespect, your dismissal of him as a human being and husband. But, what you don't realize just yet, is that you have damaged yourself almost as much. You have completely lost your moral compass. That compass has to be found again. You need to figure out the bedrock beliefs that guide your decision making, your logic, your feelings, and your actions.

I would go further and suggest that Plan A might be a good thing to do, because as you reach out to him, as you offer him something he really needs from you...love, you will find the affect will be astounding on your thinking. BUT, you should do this ONLY after you have really decided that MM is out of your life for good. MM has been your main focus for 4 years, not your child, not your H, not your marriage, but MM. That must be addressed first.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
I'm so scared. I have torn into tiny bits something that was, well, a family. My little girl, OMG, I let "friends" talk me into believing she would be ok... but is ok good enough? NO!
I realize that MM has been my focus for years. By address that do you mean, I need to understand why? I have no idea why - except for the surface things you would all 2x4 me for (and righfully so). I don't have any idea why. I feel more lost than I did before. i feel like you are suggesting the "why" has more to do wiht me than it does with the relationship, the marriage. That there is something in me that was broken and I used the A to try and fix it at the expense of EVERYTHING. Is that what you are saying? I just thought I was unhappy, searching.
I'm whining, I don't mean to be whining. This is all so...much.

It's not something you'll have figured out by tomorrow.

Keep it in your mind, keep learning, and you will begin to see it.

Ok.
Guess I'll read up on Plan A just to see what's what.

I really much prefer things I can have figured out by tomorrow!

~Baaa

LostSheep:

Much better moniker. Indicates a seachange in attitude.

I popped in yesterday, and asked these questions:

Are you driven to fix your Marriage? To right the wrongs and really give it a chance?

Or:

Are you driven to do this, because it is what you think you should be doing?

It seems that you have started to sort that out.

And the first steps in that path are the hardest. It is easy to get sidetracked, but you must use all of your resolve.

I wanted to comment on some of the things in your thread.

You mentioned the "date" in high school where you had been abused. Care to expand?

And expand also on your relationship with your father. And mother. You may be cuddling on the couch now with Dad, but what do you recall at age 5? age 10? Age 12? And the same with Mom.

Think about it some before answering, certain things will stand out, and others here have had similar experiences and can help with any issues.

There may not be many, but its someplace to start. You state that your parents raised two girls that were too independent. Really nothing wrong with that. I believe that young ladies are getting more independent upbringings now all around. I see that as a good thing in many respects.

You mention that you were emotionally distant from the men in your life. Not into the Touchy-feely stuff. With H, and with OM, who was just not into it anyway, OM didn't have to be.

This was a big indicator for me that you wished to remain emotionally detached from everyone important in your life. But, not your daughter, you "Cuddle her all the time, but she's a kid!" indicating that at a certain age you no longer have to. Then the emotional distance starts to set in.

"We must all act with propriety"

Were you ever told this? Indirectly? In other words? So the hugs and kisses stopped from your parents?

And this is the way that you were to act with others now?

And the SF with your husband was not rough enough? Or maybe not lead by him? He wanted to partner with you, and you wanted to race?

And that the OM was amazing, and how could your H compete with that? OM could propose any type of extreme SF and you went along.

Because the OM was getting what he wanted and wasn't particularly concerned about your feelings.

Been There, Done That. Got the Scarlet Letter.

And then on Dday, I started dropping all the walls, and finally, after 15 years of M, I let my BS see my heart. She had never seen it before. And I remain that way. Once I gave that to her, her love came back in waves.

Not overnight, we have been working on it alot. But it has grown and grown.

And the SF? Beyond anything I ever had during the A with OW.

Because, until you release those walls, you will never, ever, really properly engage in SF.

SF was good with BS before the A and even during. Affair SF has a certain rush that cannot be duplicated in a Marriage.

But what we have now? Blows it all away. The Affair SF Rush? No Comparision.

Because the walls I built, I took down.

And I see the same walls for you.

You now have a hammer. Care to use it?

Just know it won't get figured out that fast. Put away your need for geting things done so quickly... do them right instead. Get a counselor... and do the NC letter suggested by Dr. H. Read the earlier posts on this thread and work your plan. Right now.. it is get an IC and do the NC letter. Your goal and your plan is to work on just you right now.
Why not list for us the things that you feel you should be doing immediately.
I would start journaling even before you begin counseling some things that you feel may have contributed to the affair. And by that I mean, things about you... not your H. How do you feel your relationship with your father might have impacted you? How do you feel being assaulted might have impacted you and your feelinsg about intimacy?
These are all for you to answer for you and to work on in counseling.
BTW... in case no one has ever told you... you were not responsible for being assaulted. It is a terrible thing to have happen to you (I know). I feel for you and hope that you can work out any feelings you have concerning that. I'm sorry that happened to you.
You feel guilt for what you have done to your family... and you should... let that guilt now be your fuel to help you become a better mother and a better person. You have it in you. You can't change what you don't recognize... well, you have recognized your issues and you CAN change them. No matter what happens with your M.... you will come out of this a better person... someone you can be proud of.
Remember... slow down... breath... and stay focused on you.

LS,

You will feel lost as you come out of the "fog" of the affair and realize that for many years you did not see reality. Now you are. BIG reality #1
First of all she will not be OK, and OK is NOT good enough. She is losing and has lost her father as she has known him...part of the family. He will NOT be and has not been, and the impact will be felt in just a few years. She will learn eventually how this came about and why. YOu won't have to tell her, and neither will your H, she will figure it out. I am sure she has been exposed to OM, and she knows he was/is in your life.

Reality #2: You did NOT have to lose this marriage because you did have an H that would have worked with you and tried for many years even during your A. Consider how you treated him during your A.

Reality #3: Reality I am not suggesting it, I am telling you that the WHY is within you and has little to do with the relationship and you need to acknowledge this.

Let me explain further. YOUR H was not consulted about the affair. He had no say in it. He did not get to offer approval, not likely right, thus you never asked. Your OM was and is not the only male you are and have been around, he is a married man YOU chose to have an affair with. You are the one that decided that the vows of marriage are not valid. YOU are the one that decided your H was no good to you or for you. YOU are the one that crossed your own boundaries.

Now read this point very carefully because within lies what you need to understand. The WHY is asked because I believe as do others here, that your normal moral compass would have forbidden you from doing what you did. You crossed your own boundaries and the question is WHY did you give yourself permission to do this. The WHY is about the previous paragraph, but really it boils down to what I said in this paragraph. You see your marriage vows are about your H, but they are really vows you make to yourself, because only YOU can keep them. Obviously your H had and has no control of you keeping YOUR vows. Only you do.

Now the condition of the marriage, that is something you both have responsibility for,but your choice to have an affair is all about you. Your A was a very bad way to address discontent in the marriage. It does not mean you are "broken", it means you have not protected yourself, your boundaries, and your morals. You need to address "why" you did this in order to develop a plan to protect first yourself, then your marriage, and finally your H.

The marriage is likely to end given the time line, but your relationship with your H and yes a possible remarriage are still viable options for you IF you learn WHY and can explain to your H WHY and what actions you are willing to take to make sure WHY never happens again.

This cannot be done over night. But, it starts with reading and learning what is one this site. It starts with you seeking guidance via counseling and perhaps clergy. It starts with your determination that OM is out, and there will never be another OM in this marriage or any other marriage you are a party to.

So much to say, but I will close with telling you that panicing is NOT going to get it done. It gets done with a "steely eyed resolve" to learn and improve. It gets done with patience, and yes love. There are no miracle words to fix this. There is just healing, learning, execution of actions that match your words. It takes time, give it that.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I am going to take a break for a while and digest all of this. Can I just ask, when did you all get so smart?
And 2, where do I go to learn how to make my daughter's life turn out NOTHING like this?!

I am completely not prepared for the why did I cross my own boundaries question...I don't know how to even think about that. I know what it means - why is it that one day I strongly believe that infidelity is wrong and the next day I'm doing it? Where did I "switch" and why...

Hi LS -

I have started to post to you several times, but each time I didn't know what more I could add. I couldn't think of anything to say that the others - especially MEDC - haven't already said much more eloquently than I could.

You're in the right place. It took a lot of courage to post here, and a lot of courage to get through the initial gauntlet of 2x4's. I wanted to acknowledge you for that.

As you're finding out, it will continue to take courage to face the reality that you have created...to take a look inside yourself and answer some hard questions...to work on yourself and to live in honesty and integrity.

You're getting great advice here. Now go get some rest and take care of that cold <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LG -
The "date"... I was actually doing the long-distance thing while away at school with my BH (boyfriend then) and was in a different old hometown (we moved a lot) for a wedding, guy I used to be friends with (only) takes me out for a burger - no big, we used to hang all the time totally platonic - he wants more than a burger, I'm 4'10", 90lbs - easy math. Trick is, I'm dating BH @ the time, get back to school a bit messed up over the deal and I spill it to him -I'm afraid he's going to be mad - think I was cheating (irony anyone), he threatens to drive to the place and kill the guy - all big drama... I'm at school for another few months, it goes away. End of story. H used to blame probs with SF n our M on that episode, never really sure I bought it - but as I sit here considering some of my early experiences there may be some meat for my counselor.

Ok, WHY did I spill that here??!!

LG - SF, ok, after reading what I just wrote, even I can see that what I think I need in the SF category is prob influenced just a teeny bit by this experience and others...
But I HATE the idea of blaming something that happened a REALLY long time ago for why I have so @$*&$% up my life.
This little sheep got issues! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

bit - my family lives near you... let me say how jealous I am - snow and ice and -18 wind chill here in the Midwest - ick!

thx for chiming in... i sleep like pooh these days, but I'm gonna try... and the cold - Nyquil is my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Night all. There is a little pumpkin upstairs that I need to go snuggle...
Look @ me getting all gooey! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />