Lostsheep,

You do know that worms are great for the soil and being a sheep a good crop of grass is an excellent treat. Isn't time to turn the worms loose? Isn't time to open all of those boxes and see what is in them, and if it is worms, turn them loose to flourish in the dirt where they belong.

You can make a happy ending you know. You do it be remaining here, learning alot about relationships, and learning about yourself. Trust me as you read here and post here, it is like looking in the mirror. You WILL see things about yourself that you will want to change. You will realize things about yourself that did notice as strengths and you will obtain a whole new tool set on relationships.

I don't know much but I do know YOUR perspective about relationships, marriage, and yourself will change. Will your H give you another chance? I haven't a clue. All you can do is become someone worthy of another chance.

Will, OM's family survive? I don't know and don't care and neither should you. Work on you. Talk with your H whenever you can. Let him see the growing and emerging you. He may choose GF. Easy sex for a few days and then nothing to worry about for 4 days. Sounds great but it will get tiresome for one or both of them pretty soon.

One doesn't know what life will throw at us, so it is best to be prepared by learning as much as we can when we can. So hang in there, and realize that with the ending of your affair, TWO families have a chance to rebuild, and ONE of the people involved (YOU) will be a better person in the future.

It is all you can do, and it is all you can control.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
You write beautifully, thank you.

Went to parent-teacher conferences this evening and my little Punk (in Kindergarten), is reading @ a 1st grade level thank you very much! I am so proud of her, she is really amazing - even though she has a bit of a smart mouth and rolls her eyes - wonder where she gets that from?!?

You know, I've been reading around a bit on the site and I'm discovering that people don't talk. (I mean before things go bad - sounds like lots of you do now!) I mean husbands and wives don't talk - which is odd to me. Who else should you turn yourself inside-out to except your spouse? I mean, I know that's the way it's supposed to be. I wonder why H & I never got past layer one? I mean, I always accused him of not liking, not knowing the "real" me - but really, how was he supposed to? We never got that far. In 10 years and we barely scratched the surface of who we are - as individuals.

Something (for me) to think about.

Go big blue!

My Valentine's Date...
Me & the Punk, popcorn, hot cocoa, and BASKETBALL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
More hugs and kisses than one can imagine! Good stuff! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just re-read my very first post from a few days ago.
Head hanging very low.
I'm surprised any of you even responded to that "bossy" selfish whiny b****.
But thanks for doing so!
I'm hanging my saddle on the bathroom mirror, so I can see it every day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There is no sleep for me tonight it appears.
Why have I done these things? What in the name of God made me think that this would all be ok? Lies! Lies! Lies! How does that happen? How do you look at yourself as a rational human and say, "Self, you can do this thing that promises nothing but destruction and you will be fine"
I can't tell if it's the height of arrogance or the pit of self-loathing.

Do you know as I have read the stories of those of you in recovery who have happy things to share now (Neak, AussieWife), I am just flooded by memories of things that at one time recently I would have said actually made me nauseous... and today I am thinking I would give a King's ransom for a hand to hold - no not any hand to hold H's hand to hold. We were going to be little old people together. He taught me to play golf - me the most un-teachable one - he taught to play golf. And bought me beautiful FootJoy Classics - saddles, and a White-Hot putter. When the Punk was first born we would take her to the sitter one morning a week so he & I could go out to the course and get in 9 then head home for lunch. One day I forgot my breast pump and I'm sitting across the table from him and he's like, "Um, babe, you're uh, leaking" It was so funny! The first month we were married we both got the flu - the 2 sided flu - at the same time - in an apt with one bathroom. Modesty done. Mystery over. But it was a happy memory. Every single picture we have of us he is wrapping me in his arms or looking at me like I am the most amazing creature on the planet. What the f happened to me that I thought THAT was a bad thing??!!

I'm going to get my s*** together, let him see that I can be his W again instead of that stupid alien I have been...

MEDC, you KNOW I don't want to let him be - but I see I've got work to do.
Is it ok to let him know I am grieving - for him, for us? I don't think I've ever told him that. Shame on me.
Tylenol P.M. calling - not good I know, but must sleep some...

It's the failure thing - it's the stupid fear of failing b.s. - after the Punk was born I was so sure I was going to screw her up for all time - do something, everything wrong. And he (H) was so smooth, so great with her - calm and not at all irrational - even when she was crying all night long - and I HATED that he could handle her better than I could - so every opportunity I had I made sure he knew he wasn't doing something "right" with her. Like I knew! He((, I couldn't even figure out how to get her to latch on without his help - the most "natural" thing in the worls, and I can't even do that by myself! And to this DAY I can't swaddle even a barbie doll - but HE was the master! And now, now I see that I was really lucky and I should have rested more and recognized what a toll the pregnancy and delivery had taken on my body and said, "Dude you so know what you're doing here - wake me up when it's time to nurse her!" But I had to be the control freak. I had to be "good" at everything and if I couldn't be then I sure as he(( wasn't going to let anyone else be!

SO what do I do? I quit my job - I'll show him! He thinks he can be a better parent than me? We'll just see how he likes having to take care of everything! Which was NEVER in our agreement when we got married - I was always going to be working, sharing the responsibility for income. And, as soon as he "proved" that in the face of my sabatoge (sp?) he could not, manage (did I mention the ridiculous debt I wracked up?) without my help - THEN I decide he's no man & I'll go out and find another.

And, since he had the audacity to still find me attractive - or at least say he did - while I was giant and huge with his child... instead of him also being great at being the H of a giant huge pg woman, I mentally turned him into an idiot. All of a sudden his impression of my attractiveness meant nothing. Which of course had much more to do with my complete lack of esteem post-baby.

I ran - I ran far and fast from all of my feelings of being the worst mommy on the planet, my fears of wrecking my kid, my complete inadequacy in the face of this infant, and my inability to let him (H) be "better" at something than me - and off I ran.

And you know what? He is the guy, if I had just tried the flippin earplugs like he suggested when she was crying all night, if I would have just TOLD him how incredibly inept I felt, he would have kissed me on the forehead and said, "Yep, you're wound a little tight right now. But it's been a long 10 months. Go back to bed. I've got this. We'll learn together." Because he is that guy. Patient, loyal, and can swaddle like none other. And I ran.

How shi!!y is that?

are you aware what you have going for you now?

[color:"blue"]you have open ears[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

sometimes you must be still and pay attention to the beating of your own heart

I was the one who called you a "runner" ... the restless heart ... now missing home

it's gonna be OK
you're young
you're teachable
God loves you even when you fail

LS,

Do you see it coming? Do you feel it coming? The answer to WHY? is coming LS. Your last two posts are getting you ready.

You asked
The short answer is FEAR. That is why we don't talk to our spouses. We fear they will see the REAL us. We fear they will not find us suitable as mates. We fear the pain they can inflict on us because the mean sooo much to us. We fear redicule because of all of the people on the planet their opinion means the most.

The answer is FEAR. Look at this site. One of Harley's strong recommendations is to expose the affair. It makes sense. The light of honesty has a way of showing how tawdry an affair really is. We ALL know it. But, look and read and you will see everyone is reluctant why? FEAR the WS will be mad, fear they will leave, fear.

I think it was Pepperband that once asked someone on this site: "What would you do if you were not afraid?" I found that question so powerful.

As you remember your H without the fog, I would like to tell you of another poster that still drops around from time to time. His name is K. His W had an affair. It was a strong one, and difficult to break as these things are. They had two children. One day it occured to him that she might become pregnant by the OM. In fact she did. Here is the part that just blew me away. He had been counseling with Steve Harley, and this was before this site really existed. Somehow he came to the point of view that her pregnancy was an OPPORTUNITY to rebuild their marriage and he has. That little boy is I believe around 8 now. Their marriage is still not perfect and she has had some very severe health problems since, but it is recovered.

When I thought about it I realized I had been given one of the great lessons in life. To see your W as pregnant by another man (men's worst fear) and see it as an OPPORTUNITY just blew my mind, but I realized that IS what life is about. Seeing OPPORTUNITY where no one believes there is one. Seizing OPPORTUNITY in the middle of adversity.

LostSheep, do you seen an OPPORTUNITY in your life?

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: As you can gather I think of K as sort of my hero. And now you know why I am Just Learning.

I'm in the same boat with you. Guess what I cancelled the divorce 3 years ago with my H but still with my OM,sad right.

Things are getting very messy for me as my OM is emotionally not sure to be with me or not as you know his family is questioninfg on my divorce. And he now and then support his family instead of me. The reason i'm going back 1st I cant hurt my husband and be happy. 2)My daughter is an a mess of travelling every fortnightly 3)OM's family can t get along with me 4)I dont truat my OM can take care of my daughter very well like his as his family will be involved I cant bare to see her hurt if I get another child from my OM. and bla bla

And ehen my husband wanted to comeback I was afraid that I will not be happy with him because I will be thinking of my OM and I notice he gets angry when man look at ne or I do anything wrong in my life and sometime I think he cant believe what I have done and gets angry,I was afraid that I will not able to cope the recovery alone as I know my husband needs me to be a perfect wife. He wouldn't want me to a failure. well how are yoo doing with him????

Lately my husband saya that he going out with somebody than he declined when I brought it up during a fight about him like he cared for othe other lady child more than ours(she is divorced). Now he saya he is not and still not coming back to me. I am still with my OM a lot of problem and people keep telling I am selfish, My OM just cant get it that he keeps comparing himself with other married man.I am just so sick and tired but I know he have cared for me too.

What must I do and how are you doing

I'm in the same boat with lostsheep Guess what I cancelled the divorce 3 years ago with my H but still with my OM,sad right.

Things are getting very messy for me as my OM is emotionally not sure to be with me or not as you know his family is questioning on my divorce. And he now and then support his family instead of me. The reason I’m going back 1st I cant hurt my husband and be happy. 2)My daughter is an a mess of traveling every fortnightly 3)OM's family can t get along with me 4)I don’t trust my OM can take care of my daughter very well like his as his family will be involved I cant bare to see her hurt if I get another child from my OM. and bla bla

And then my husband wanted to comeback I was afraid that I will not be happy with him because I will be thinking of my OM and I notice he gets angry when man look at ne or I do anything wrong in my life and sometime I think he cant believe what I have done and gets angry, I was afraid that I will not able to cope the recovery alone as I know my husband needs me to be a perfect wife. He wouldn't want me to a failure

Lately my husband says that he going out with somebody than he declined when I brought it up during a fight about him like he cared for othe other lady child more than ours(she is divorced). Now he says he is not and still not coming back to me. I am still with my OM a lot of problem and people keep telling I am selfish, My OM just cant get it that he keeps comparing himself with other married man. I am just so sick and tired but I know he have cared for me too.

What must I do and you gave lostsheep a good advice I hope I can make the right thing not for me but for my beloved daughter. I love her very much but my H just maybe listening to his family and friends I feel he can take the shame that I have done as everybody knows I left him for another, What you think?????

Perhaps her thead is not the place to discuss this.

Lorainesha,
There is good advice for you here should you want it - I can tell just from reading what you have written that you are going to get hit with some serious questions... if you really want to change, stick it out.

We are not, however, in the same boat.
I have NC with the OM, I have no desire for contact with OM, I do not miss OM - in fact, I DO NOT think tractors are sexy (sorry MEDC), and I am heartsick over the loss of my family and eager to everything I can to fix me in the hopes that maybe my H will see his W has returned from alien A land.

This is a much better boat to be in than the one you are in - and I was in it recently myself - so jump ship.

Start your own thread so people can help you - if it is help that you really desire.

Best.

~LS

Now - on to me and my discovery of self.
Can it be peace that I am feeling? I mean, yes I have got a lot to figure out, and yes, I have much to regret... but I am feeling more calm and strong than I have in a very long time.

I have had these snippets of recognition - more signs that the fog is clearing.

It's all tied together isn't it? The fear - fear of failure, fear of not being accepted, fear of being (physically) hurt again. All the fear. And to talk about it - well that requires taking the fear out of its box... and maybe what I'm most afraid of is that if someone, even the man who has pledged to be mine for life, sees such a mess of worms, he will run screaming from the ugliness.

My fear of failure has always resulted in self-sabatoge (someone please tell me how to spell that word!). I have screwed up school, made life more difficult than it needed to be at every turn. I haven't found the why quite yet... but I have some suspicions.

And wrapped up in this fear of failure is this overwhelming need to be accepted, to be the "best", to be admired and praised. And this has everything to do with my Daddy. My entire life has rotated around trying to make him proud (umm guess I blew the he(( out of that one!). But at every step - every opportunity I've had to do just that, I have for some reason,sabatoged myself so that I could not possibly make him proud without there being lies and masks worn.

And that is as far as I get - can't put my finger on the why. Although....

My mom recently shared with me something I had forgotten. When I was five I think, maybe a bit younger, my dad went back to grad school - in another city. He would come home on the weekends. Apparently I really had a problem wiht this, in fact started doing some regression - potty accidents and the like. Thumb-sucking all of that. Ladies and gentlemen, could we be dealing with a serious Class A abandonment issue??!!

Well, I'm going to get some work done today - productive activity is one of the best medicines. Check in later - y'all stay warm.. it's 10, yes 10 degrees here today!

~Baaaaa

One thing you will learn about MB... at times people show up here that we refer to as trolls. They are really here just to distract and cause trouble...they may even be from a pro affair board... sometimes, as in the past, it is just a troubled soul that has nothing better to do.

Anyway... keep up your good work.

MEDC

thanks lostsheep I hope god give the courage to end my A and I have been trying but my OM just hanging in.Duno y coz we stay together if i nedd to move out I have no place and he doens't allow.my daughter is going to school i need to move out somewhere near and also i have deposit in the house we are in.

Good morning new friends!

I went to the bookstore! And I picked up "Torn Asunder" and the SAA book and His Needs/Her Needs and I am looking froward to putting my insomnia to good use! AND I have an appt with a counselor first of next week.

I have a couple of things on my mind today, would love some of your thoughts...

1.) Divorce proceedings - my H asked me to file becuse he wants to get on with his life (& rightfully so because I was still a WW until very recently and he hasn't really seen his W in a long time).

I was supposed to have an appt w/ my atty on Monday - the day I was home sick and spent the whole day talking to you all... so I didn't go. It was a read and sign the final papers thing.

So now, I really need to reschedule that appt b/c my atty is bugging me... BUT I DON'T WANT TO!!!! We were granted a continuance until the beginning of next month b/c we (I) have been dragging our feet, but I think after that date it's a done deal unless we go and say we've changed our minds. Which I don't think H is ready to do.

I know we have talked about how I'm supposed to be working on me, and I am. And I know it is my fault for not haivng seen the light sooner. I am fairly certain that once it is final he will just call it a day.

So my question is, what is my position to be here? I think it's suposed to be, I keep working on me, demonstrating that I am the W he knew and loved again - a better, healthier version, and not the WW alien anymore. And what he does with that reality is his business. Is that right?

The Punk has started lying - which is also b/c she is 6, but I know it has something to dao wiht all of this. And I wish I could sit her down and say, "Baby, mommy and daddy have a plan, and at the end of that plan we're all going to be a happy family again - one house, all together." But I can't.

I want to do the right thing here, meaning, I don't want to "push" H to reconcile with me because it will not be easy for either one of us. There is TREMENDOUS work to be done, and he has an out. I cheated. I lied. I betrayed.

I'm thinking of writing him a letter with all of the things I've come to recently in the letter. A letter that explains that I have a lot to work through myself, but I would really like for him to work with me - on our M. Thoughts?

Also - he is so reluctant to talk to anyone - in part because I think he knows he will have to dredge up the pain again.

Should I suggest he comes here?

IMO, I would just tell him the truth about how you feel. I would tell him that you don't want a divorce, you want to reconcile, and that you are going to continue to try and win him back even after the D is final. I would list off all the things you are doing to prevent what happened from occurring again and foster a wonderful M. I would express remorse and regret, and let him know that you understand if he still wants to leave you, but that you realize now how much you want him and how much you hurt him. I would send it to him in letter or email for and ask him to give you a call after he has thought about it. I would wait on bringing him here until you talk. Just put yourself out there (I know it sucks because it makes you vulnerable), and see what happens.

Lostsheep, no one can "make" you divorce. You can tell your attorney that you wish to withdraw your divorce petition.If your husband still wants a divorce, then he can file.

huge mistake.. please follow your plan.

LostSheep,

I have more than a few ideas. Did you see MEDC's response? Why do you suppose he responded as he did? Is it to protect you? Is it to protect your H? Is it that he does not believe that you have learned enough, done enough, changed enough, or protected yourself, thereby your H enough? Is it that he fears you will go back to OM?

Please think about this OK? Now to what you said and asked.


I don't know the state of the laws, but I think you can get a divorce petition suspended without terminating the actions. I think you could ask for another continuence. I think you could just stop the divorce IF you don't want one.

But, what I really think you need to do is talk to your H, heart to heart. I think you should be very honest with him and tell him you do NOT WANT THIS DIVORCE at this point. If he does he can file. But, perhaps you should offer that you have now ended things with OM and for the first time in a long while you can see things much more clearly. It may be true that you have hurt him too badly and the marriage is over, but you would like to try and rebuild if he is ameanable. My thoughts are honesty, straight forward explanation of your thoughts and feelings.

Harley claims even a divorce should POJA'd. I think in this case, it is truly a good idea.


This my dear lady is a DJ, disrespectful judgement. You may be right but you don't know. There have been a few couples that have remarried after divorce. The real thing will be if YOU give it enough time before moving on yourself. Will you continue to work on your relationship skills and yourself even if the divorce goes through? If you do the work, you will be rewarded in the future that much I do know.


Yup, what he does with it is his business. It always has been, just as what you have done is your business. But, it always better for him to be making decisions based on honest, full information from you. You may not like his decision, but give him all of the facts as you see them at this point.


Nope, you cannot speak for your H right now. But, I think it would be a very good thing for her to know that no matter what happens you will be her mother, and your H will be her father, and act accordingly. You can promise to be her mother and love her, and he can make the same promise IF he is really ready to be her father.


The good news is you cannot push your H to reconcile. You also could not push him away hard enough for him to divorce you, though God knows you tried. There is nothing wrong with being honest about your feelings, your stance on things, especially the marriage, and your desires for him to be in your life. BE HONEST with the man, be open with him, and LISTEN to him very carefully.


I think writing a letter, a very detailed letter would be a good idea. But, I think you also need to tell him these things face to face. When you are done, hand him the letter. Why? Because writing the letter will focus your thoughts and feelings. Talking to him face to face will allow him to read you, your words, and your body language. It is also far more personal. Giving him the letter allows him to reveiw what you have said in black and white. IT allows him to revisit what you said over and over as he needs to. Don't for a moment think this will be an easy decision for him. My guess it will be particularly hard for him because he still has love in his heart for you.


Yup, he will dredge up the pain, but make no mistake he is still in pain. If he shows any interest in why and how you have started this huge turnaround, send him here to read. Let him know that you are undergoing a huge change in perspective about yourself, him, and what you have done to him. Him coming here will help him even if the marriage does in fact end.

Finally, I would strongly urge you to consider using the Harley's for counseling, actually they really refer to it as "coaching". Indeed that is what is happening to you isn't it? We are trying to "coach" you, not counsel you or even really change YOU. It is your perspectives we are talking about changing, NOT YOU.

He may find that idea something of interest to him. Being made aware of tools, patterns, cause and effect are very very useful things and what this site is really about.

I hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

Hi all. I've been "lurking around" as I've heard it called, reading a lot, and just saw LovingAnyway said something to S&R about projection and learning about it, something about a "wayward state of mind" = entitlement and resentment, etc. (I had it quoted but I deleted it - oops!)

ANyway, I'm just interested in some more thougths along those lines - or where i can read more about those things.

p.s. My H has gone a bit off the deep end - had a diff. girl @ his house today when DD called him to say goodnight, but the "GF" is coming to town tomorrow. He is bringing her to DD's game - @ our church. That should be interesting. (lostsheep shrugging shoulders). My friends are echoing you all - work on me, work on my relationship with God, let him do his thing, don't rush the DV, and remember that he either will or won't consider coming back to the table.

So - not really advice-seeking, just looking for additional outside resources if you have any suggestions. And yes, I've read just about every title on this site!

JL - I think MEDC may believe that I have not had nearly enough time to learn - that I have barely begun to scratch the surface - and that with all the baggage I bring to the table, I would likely just end up hurting us both again. And, I agree.

As to whether or not I would go back to the OM - I would be lying if I said I wasn't still feeling some of the withdrawl symptoms. But I CAN say that every tear I have shed over the past few days has been over my H - and not because I don't want to be alone - because I am missing HIM.
So no, if OM knocked on my door right now, I would tell him to go away. I am seeing jsut a bit too clearly now - clear enough to see that my typical pattern of changing myself to fit the situation was playing out with OM as well... as I have said, "I DO NOT think tractors are sexy!" I think Ferragamo boots and Gucci bags are sexy! (not that I'll ever have any of those things, but you see my point - FOG, FOG, FOG!)

Still, I know I am not ready, and one of my friends said tonight - maybe HE is not ready, maybe he needs to do some growing as well. That maybe all of this is not just about God refining me, but is also about Him refining H. Which I beleive is probably true - maybe making us ready to be better for one another - or for other relationships...

Anyway, I'm focused on my plan - thus, my request for informational resources in addition to those listed on the site. I will check in to the coaching option - I just paid my spring tuition, so $$ is tight, but I'm sure my parents would help. I will give it some thought.

I appreciate any suggestions any of you have for places to learn more... and LovingAnyway - I'd love to hear more about your thoughts you shared with S&R that I've quoted above.

Enjoy your weekend all. Thanks for welcoming me here.

~lostsheep