i'm ok, we talked again. a little more subdued. but she said she understood my pov but that I needed to trust her, told her I did, and I do.

but he continues to go to her to talk, and she keeps telling me everything as far as I know.
She tells me that she doesnt care about him, but she knows that he likes talking to her, she said other people like talking to her too (ladies). as long as she keeps talking I think Im ok, I know that nothing has happened, other than the talking. She said that if he was to make a move she would let him know that it was wrong and she didn want that, and that she would tell me.
She says she loves me and the kids, I believe her.

I've got some more reading to do, work has been bad too..

Hmm...I think that if you actually did, you wouldn't have started up this thread.

A possible rebuttal to the "I need you to trust me" comment was "I want to, but it's difficult to really trust you when you are choosing to do something you know that I'm not comfortable with, that you're choosing to continue to talk with this person, knowing that it hurts me."

I used to say "yes" whenever my FWW asked me if I trusted her. Now, I'm VERY careful about giving out that sort of blind affirmation.

Let's pick this apart and decrypt the static noise coming from your WW's(?) Mouth - and translate it into common sense.


And then..


She loves you so much to be quick-draw mcgraw with the dreaded "It's over!" threat?

I view this as .. almost like the attitude of an angry Wayward after exposure..she's warning you before it ever happens...



If he WAS to make a move... she would let him know it was wrong? IF he was to make a move.."I will be within HIS GENERAL proximity so that he may BE IN a POSITION to MAKE a Move.. .. This can can be translated as..

"I will continue to put myself in a position where he has the opportunity to make moves - and when the time comes .. it may be WRONG but it FEELS SO RIGHT!"

She wouldn't tell you if he made a move.

Continue plan A. Don't LB.

should I expose this? what should I expose it as? will most people think I'm being controling or overbearing? if its not to the ea stage yet and I expose what happens?
I want to expose it. The only way that I'll know is that its nothing is if she isnt working there.

Sit your wife down, look her in the eyes, and ask her the following question..in a nice and civil tone.

"When you say that you love me..do you mean "You love me .. but..you're not "IN-LOVE" with me? (emphasize the "IN-LOVE" part..)

If she answers "Yes" or any variant of agreeance ..it's already a EA..or perhaps more.

i dont see what you have to expose....

bottomline, you have to keep comminicating with her how her actions are making you feel.

sometimes my DH tries to discount my feelings with comments like "it's nothing, don't worry about it"

i used to feel pressured to just say ok.

which, in reality means, i just blew off my true feelings.

now i respond now with, it may seem like nothing to you, but it is not nothing to me. all i can do is give you this information(i.e. my feelings/point of view) , what you do with it is up to you, i cannot control your response, but i will continue to communicate with you my feelings and on this topic, it is not nothing to me....

i also agree... continue with plan A which basically means, look at your own actions, have you missed the mark on being a great husband? if so, start doing something about it.

you absolutely need to keep an eye on what is going on, but lets say she were to quit today, in your mind, is everything ok then??

do you have a solid happy marriage or not?

if not, get to work!!!

there is much to learn here about how to have a great marriage. learn about the ideas here and incorporate them back into your marriage.

does she know about MB yet??

here's one way to tell her about it: "ok, granted i ended up at MB because i am worried about danny d, but i find there are things here that can improve any marriage, and i would like to talk about those things, explore ways to make our marriage more solid."

be proactive TM, about your marriage in general!!

that is my advice.

inshockman,

great questions BUT... why does the answer of yes mean there is an EA?? can't it also just mean, the marriage is not very solid??

Tired_Man,

I respectfully disagree with FLT2H, do not tell her about MB ..yet..or this forum.

FLT2H, to answer your concern - I believe in this case .. it's a good litmus test...for infidelity. .. but in every scenario ..no, it' wouldn't automatically indicate an affair.

fh,

[quote] [i really think it would be good for you to very strongly get the msg across that she has done nothing wrong. In order to help her get out of defense mode/quote]



How about we add one to your statement above... that word, of course would be YET!!!!

How about the fact that TM's W is walking a very slippery slope that could very definitely lead to not only an EA(which I firmly blieve she is already entrenched in), but ultimately turn to a PA? What advise would you give TM then? Woops, sorry, I misjudged your W?

TM is RIGHTFULLY CONCERNED that his W's need to somehow be this OM's counsellor is way off base for a M'd women. If she wants to help that much, she should tell him to go to MC, and a professional therapist, NOT HER!

FH, I don't think you see the inherrent danger here of TM's w's action. I do. Because what I see here is exactly how my FWW got involved in her boss. The EA did as every EA will do, when given the oppotunity, it turned to a PA.

My w was exactly as TM's. She was the rescuer . Somehow thought it would be a good thing to resue this M from his woes. After it turned PA, he chuckled at her and said X, don't you understand, IT WAS ALL A GAME. I WON, YOU LOST!!!!

Catch what I mean about inherrent danger?!

FH, I mean you no disrespect, truly, I don't. But I don't think you understand the true nature of where this can lead. TM's w gave him the threat to back off, of else. This speaks volumes to where her head is already.

She is on a very slippery slope, and I, for one, would like to see TM head off this disaster before it takes place before his eyes, as it did for me.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

what i don't understand is why you are responding to me in the way you are.

we went over that stmt last week... i will continue to say, good communication will not occur if she is in defenisve mode and TM doing all he can to keep her out of that mode will only benefit them as a couple.

i have clearly said that i too think he has strong reason to be concerned.

feel free to add the word yet to my stmt.

i have clearly stated that i see that she is in danger...

did you miss this part?

i have no idea why you are concluding that i am clueless as to the danger she is putting herself in.

for the record, you are wrong, i do see the danger. why do you think i bumped this thread up today?

i am concerned about this couple.

but feel free to continue to decide for yourself what i know and what i don't know.

inshockman,
ok, i can understand your POV about not telling her about the MB forumn at this point.

but i disagree when it comes to sharing the content found here. why should he not proactively work on himself and the marriage by trying to integrate the things from MB into his marraige now?

FH,
I can sense from your tone that you are upset and angry at my reply. I guess that's why I don't reply to many posts. If I have somehow, upset you, I truly apologise.

I think it has something to do with being Irish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

This thread has touched a raw nerve with me, and if I have somehow offeneded you, I' am truly sorry.

The points I was trying to make, concern the fact that, in retrospect, I watched the exact same thing take place in my M, untile it was too late!!

The EA had turned to a PA. I had no clue until my doctor dx me with and STD after 31 years of a faithful M. Does that give you a clue to my tainted view of what I thought?

I'm sorry if I offended you. Truly.


I will post more later.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

thanks for your response. i was more frustrated and confused by your comment than offened.

I do realize this thread is full of BHs all of which have every right to be responding to this thread with much intensity. I am sorry for your pain, and every other BS's pain.

We truely are on the same side here. Even though i was the FWW, i too would love to see TM's marriage avoid the horrible turmoil most of us have been through.

Jerry... I HAVE THE FACT THAT I AM A FWW. And so i too have an intense reaction to this thread. I don't want his W to do what i did!!

so perhaps commenting on my advice rather than judging me would be good.

I will be the first to acknoweldge, I can be off base here. so i sincerly ask you, has any of my advice been wrong.

specifically to

#1 - do what he can to help keep his W from becoming defensive in order to get effective communication occuring

#2 - take a good hard look at himself and the state of his marriage and if he has fallen short (which of course we all do) proactively work on improving things.

we all know, we can only control ourselves. seems we can best help TM by giving him advice on things he can control.

again, thank you for your apology. no hard feelings here.

please, both of you, and everyone else have been a great help to me. keep it going. i felt like i was on the edge, i see some hope now. i know its not going to be easy, but we are still talking and she is still affectionate to me, I hope its not a screen. but as long as she is talking there is hope, now if she stops and says that he stopped talking, thats going to be different.
Im working plan A, and keeping my eyes open, snooping to a certain extent.

I'm not going to lie, our marriage has had its low spots, some very low early on. but things have been pretty good for the past several years. I try to devote all my time to the family and her, maybe not in the right ways, but I really dont have any friends outside of work if that tells you anything. our recreational intrests are a little different but I go along with hers most of the time.

I'm trying to handle this sitch the right way with a clear head and this site has helped.

so st, do you think I should expose this as unacceptable behavior? is that what you think you would have done?

if she works late should I just show up?

All I know is that any woman or man that doesn't think enough or care more about my feelings regarding a questionable behavior at best and an EA at the worst than whether or not they hurt their "supposed" friend is not being a friend to the marriage and is not willing to protect me. Then you place in there the threat that "if you do so and so this is over" and I know all I need to know about where I and our M stand in this woman's list of priorities.

Best of luck.

TM,
I don't know at this point, what it is that have to expose. You, like I, have a gut feeling that something is wrong. I am not sisagreeing with you, but at this point, there is nothing concrete to expose here.

What I was humbly trying to suggest, was the very precarious position your W ha put herself into, without having a thorough knowledge of exactly where her pos could lead her. DR. H on this site, hs stated unequivcally(sp) that A's happen in good M's because the WS failed to protect themselves from their own weaknesses. If you doubt my word, look it up on this site. If you cannot find it, I wiil do the research and find it for you.

My W and I were M'd for 31 years before she betrayed me. I never saw it coming. Most of us never do. But this is exactly what DR. H is talking about when he discussing good Marriages experiencing an A, that neither partner saw coming.

I think it is very possible that your W does not see the train wreck coming at her, because she somehow thinks she is immune to falling into an A. That would and could be a very fatal mistake for her and to you and your M together.

Someone, if not you, needs to wake her up about the dangerous and slippery slope that she has now decided to walk upon.

FH, as an aside, I hope my passion in this area has not offended you.

All Blessings,
Jerry

FH,
My response here had truly nothing to do with you being a FWW. Truly!!!!!
You see, what I'm trying to point out, more than anything, is that WE ALL HAVE THE CAPABILTY OF BECOMING A WS, GIVEN THE RIGH SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!!

Don't beat yourself up as if you were somehow more able to commmit sin than me, the epitamy of a sinner.

We are all in this same boat( or desert together),,

Put me in the right circumstances, and I could have fallen just as easily. I AM NO BETTER THAN YOU, SITCH'S WERE SIMPLY DIFFERENT!!!!

I see tm's W walking in an area where she should not even tread. It will lead to disaster. That is the only thing I am humbly trying to point out to TM.

All Blessings,
Jerry

hope and pray,

we all agree with you. but i believe TM is looking for ADVICE, not just a "good luck". help the man, don't bring him down more!!!

Jerry, as i said, and i was sincere, no hurt feelings left here.

i also got to thinking... am i being unfair to TM by asking him about the state of his marriage and challanging him to improve himself??

i am realizing that i am saying that at least part of the problem is the state of the marriage. but we all know his W's choice to get needs met outside of the marriage is her's choice to own and can't be "justified" away. that is not what i was meaning to imply.

and TM, i hope you did not take it that way.

Jerry, you are clearly point out that in your case, you believed your marriage was very solid and still your wife ended up straying.

if you don't mind me asking... in retrospect do you think your view of the marriage as being solid was wrong or do you still think your marriage truely was solid??

i know in my case, both of us agree, our marriage was not solid.

what does a person do if a marriage is solid??

thanks jerry.

Good Q FH. Well if I could somehow explain, I will.
For the the first 12 years of our M, I was an alcoholic. Then, I wanted more and so did she. So I went thru 30 days of rehab with the hope, that we could somhow save our M.

I spent the next 16 years of my life, completely sober, taking care of my family. I couched my sons' baseball and hockey teams, and I immersed myself, in family and my W. Was it enough??

Sadly, no it wasn't. Why?? Because my W lost herself in the process, and became enamored by anothe M.

It can happen to any one of us when we somehow let our guard down. Just as it happened to my FWW.

This is exactly why I'm trying desperately to warn TM, that he is sitting on the edge of the cliff right now.

He cannot somehow find a way to turn his back on this. It will result in NO GOOD!!!!!!

Enough about me, TM CHOOSE YOUR GOAL. Do not be disuade. Your W must stop this behaviour and stop it now before it is too late.

Choose your path, my friend, or end up like me!!!!

All Blessings,
Jerry