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And also due to parents staying together JUST for the sake of the kids? I remember reading something here and I can't find it....

So yes, that's where BH and I are right now. He says he is staying "For the sake of the children", does not want to R, does not want to participate in MC, not even IC.

He told me he has read several studies done on this subject and that we are better off staying together for the sake of the children than divorcing.

Anyone have those or can point me to those??
Thanks,
McBecca


WW (me) 36
BH 37
Married 16 yrs
3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC)
D-day 8/05
2nd D-day 10/05 *OC*
3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born
~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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McBecca:

Not sure this is what you are looking for, but its a start.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

Best wishes to your family.

MyBad
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Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them.
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McB... I am sorry you are here. There are studies that support both sides of this issue....and both seem credible... but really I can't be sure. I KNOW that the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) has published data on children witnessing fighting between parents and the unhealthy impact on them.
I would just ask you to consider a few things to think about yourself before you turn to studies. Would you rather come from a broken home than live in one? See, there are a lot of wonderful marriages out there that are not the first marriage for either partner. I would rather be from a broken home because I would KNOW that my parents are then given the opportuntity to find happiness and a new spouse. A parents happiness is very important to children and I don't think that having parents live in what could become an incresingly tense situation is best for them.

Now getting to your specific situation. If you and your H divorce (and I am sad to say, that has been the probable outcome in my mind since I first learned of your situation) the best thing you can do is make sure the kids are provided stability and access to each parent. In the case of your daughter, I do not know what type of relationship your H will have with her in the future should you divorce... but it is important that you make sure she has a father figure in her life. That's all I will say about this since I have already made my feelings clear in the past.
I am sorry that your situation has turned for the worst. I think you were given some rose colored glasses by some here in the past regarding your situation. Your BH never seemed as on board with things in my mind as he was made out to be by others here. I am certain he is a good man... but again... even prior to your affair, there were problems that were already straining the marriage foundation.
I would say that you can let your H know that staying together BECAUSE you have children is fine... so long as they will be raised in a loving and caring home. Having mom and dad be nothing more than roomates is no way to teach the children how to handle relationships in the future.
You are in a very tough position and I am sorry that things have not worked out as planned. This is one relationship that I truly hoped I was dead wrong about.

MEDC.

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But frankly, it is to the point where I have to make a decision in order for things to end or progress. He doesn't know yet if he will ever be able to forgive me, he is not certain he belives anything can change, he is convinced that people are who they are and change is only temporary. And worse yet, he believes there was "nothing wrong" with our M prior to the A.

We are not in R, but we are not trying either. We are just here. We are loving, don't get me wrong. If I take the initiative he holds my hand, he kisses me, we are intimate but his heart is not in it. It is a struggle.

He has refused MC and IC and at this point I am starting to see he has no faith that God can pull us through this. When you have no faith in God, then to put your faith in people is impossible. So the latest was "I am staying because of the children" which sounds very novel and unselfish but the reality is sooner or later that too gets old. He must be forgetting how his own childhood was with his parents living as room mates and nothing more, very little respect from his Dad towards his Mom (and she never had an A, but he did...).

He told me he is glad his father stayed with his Mom because he feels his Mom can barely survive without his Dad now that he has passed away. So I think in many ways, that's why he is still here, he is afraid I will not make it on my own.

Oh well... it has been a long 8 months and there is no light at the end of this tunnel.

Thanks,


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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McB,

You stated
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But frankly, it is to the point where I have to make a decision in order for things to end or progress. He doesn't know yet if he will ever be able to forgive me, he is not certain he belives anything can change, he is convinced that people are who they are and change is only temporary. And worse yet, he believes there was "nothing wrong" with our M prior to the A.


First, your H is right, people don't often change especially their "core" values. What does often change and can change is peoples perspective of other people, and of themselves. With changed perspectives comes changed actions. Look at your marriage. You loved him and you married him, and then you had an affair, did you really change? Did you change your morals, or just forget them?

Don't you find it interesting that you feel the same way about him and your marriage? You don't think he can change thus "staying for the kids" is not good enough for you. You don't think he can change thus his view of the marriage before your affair cannot change.

You don't think he can change so you feel you cannot show him what a good marriage really is like and that he might find he really likes the new marriage.

You don't think he can change, so you were willing and now are willing to leave him? Yet, you want HIM to change so you can stay.

What you haven't probably figured out is that he probably cannot admit that he stays with you because he loves you and needs you, that would be admitting he is a wimp who is raising another man's child. So what is a good reason for a man to stay with a wife that brings another man's child into his family??? Perhaps it is NOBEL to say for the kids, thus not having to admit that he has accepted what you have done and still loves you.

Girl, you are NOT looking at this correctly, and until you change YOUR PERSPECTIVE, you cannot hope for him to change his.

Please think about this. Your marriage can be saved and a good reason to do it is...FOR THE KIDS.

God Bless,

JL

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McBecca,

I still think there is hope for you (go back and read your original thread) and your M. But, you really do have to understand that what you heaped upon your BH is more than anyone should have to deal with. Not only an affair but a constant, daily reminder in the form of a child. Most men would have been long gone by now. This says something about your BH by itself.

Don't give up.

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He has to participate in the marriage and he is not. He is just "coasting".... he's told me this. I don't want him to change, I want him to PARTICIPATE in this marriage. Sure, I can go back to the way things were before the A when I did all the work, I did all the planning, I did all the romance, I did all those things. Yet where did that get us? nowhere.... that's what he is doing right now. He doesn't want to talk about the A or the issues, he doesn't want to seek help. This is WAY beyond anything we can fix ourselves. He won't even read the books recommended to help HIM heal. Nevermind to fix anything....

He hasn't forgiven me, and I do understand that takes time. However, sitting around not doing anything about it, is not going to resolved anything. Is that what R is? I don't know, but I don't think so.

I don't know how else I can make him see that I cannot do this on my own. He has failure in mind already. With time and actions, I can show him he is wrong, I realize that. However, doesn't he also need to be a participant here? He won't even talk about it... he is keeping all the hurt and anger inside. How is that helpful to anyone?


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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It sounds as if your BH needs IC in the worst way. He needs a place, absent you, where he can say whatever he wants, vent, be angry, hurt, depressed, etc. (speaking of depressed, is he depressed?).

Are you consoling and helping him?

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It sounds as if your BH needs IC in the worst way. He needs a place, absent you, where he can say whatever he wants, vent, be angry, hurt, depressed, etc. (speaking of depressed, is he depressed?).

Are you consoling and helping him?

No, he won't talk about it or allow to have any emotions over it. He is closed off (which is usually the norm with him) to me and others. He is just keeping it all inside. I suggested he talk to a pastor at our church but he said he is not ready, so I suggested counseling and he said "maybe sometime"...


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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McB,
You asked if this is what recovery looks like. Sadly, for a lot of people, yes. In my two plus years here I have seen many more cases like yours than anything else. I posted a study here that said 75% of people that "survived" an affair were unhappy in their marriage and wish they had left instead. This was done years into recovery to allow things to settle out.
Does that mean you have to setle for that? Well, i am not sure. YOu can do what you want and I will not be so bold as to know what is best for you... but speaking for me, I would want more out of a marriage before and after an affair. You need to take into consideration the damage that has been done to your H and if it is temporary. Or are you just seeing the same old, same old. Could be that he is happy being less than happy... you may want and need more. You know him best and can best figure this stuff out.
What is his relationship like with your daughter at this point? Does he treat her any different than the other kids?

MEDC

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8 months is not a long time to be attempting to recover

give your husband more time to heal

8 months of your being unhappy with how he is REACTING to your A is nothing compared to the pain and unhappiness your A caused

8 months into our attempt at recovery:
-i was still crying when the weather came on and it mentioned the town the OW lived in
-i was still questioning if i even wanted to still be married to my H even though he was trying hard
-i hadn't forgiven him and didn't know if i could
-i surely didn't trust him
-i wasn't really committed to changing ME because i thought he was the one with the problem
-i was still so hurt and angry

buy time however you can

i even recall reading here somewher that for many BS, at 6 months into recovery, things get worse for some reason because regardless of how things have been going, they question if they did the right think taking their spouse back

you can always choose to divorce later....so choose to stay married now

Last edited by eav1967; 02/22/07 04:23 PM.
medc #1828860 02/22/07 04:28 PM
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McB,
You asked if this is what recovery looks like. Sadly, for a lot of people, yes. In my two plus years here I have seen many more cases like yours than anything else. I posted a study here that said 75% of people that "survived" an affair were unhappy in their marriage and wish they had left instead. This was done years into recovery to allow things to settle out.
Does that mean you have to setle for that? Well, i am not sure. YOu can do what you want and I will not be so bold as to know what is best for you... but speaking for me, I would want more out of a marriage before and after an affair. You need to take into consideration the damage that has been done to your H and if it is temporary. Or are you just seeing the same old, same old. Could be that he is happy being less than happy... you may want and need more. You know him best and can best figure this stuff out.
What is his relationship like with your daughter at this point? Does he treat her any different than the other kids?

MEDC

or at least treats her/loves her the same way he does our other two. I am so grateful for that. He says she is innocent in all of this so he would never take it out on her.

As far as how he was before the A and how he is now.... yes, you hit the nail on the head. He is exactly as he was before the A, passive on all counts. If I initiate, he participates, but again just passive... coasting along. So much of our relationship right now is like it was before, it is scary!! scary because this is what got us in this mess in the first place. But he won't take ANY responsibility for the relationship issues before the A. In many ways, he has the upper hand now and as such, he makes sure that if I bring anything up to remind me that I am the one who had the affair...

I am human, I made a mistake, I made many mistakes. But isn't it a bigger sin for him to stay with me filled with resentment, anger, frustration? (all hidden inside of course never to be shown outwardly until the right time comes along).

He says he was happy with how things were.... that we had an "ok" marriage. I agree, it was an "ok" marriage if you go by secular standards, but it was NOT a Godly marriage by any means.

I feel like this has already gotten to the point where something has to give. He says he knows I will NEVER file for D out of fear so he is just waiting around until I do something stupid again. His faith in me is gone, but sometimes I wonder if I ever had it. He was disrespectul to me as a woman BEFORE the A, now he can say he has REASONS to be. How does that make for a good example for children? No f'cking way.... I SAW how his father treated his mother, she was his cook, his nurse, his doormat and the lady never had an affair! Is that what I want my girls to think is the proper way to be treated in a marriage? or relationship? Of course not. That is NOT Godly.

But right now I have no right to bring God into this because if I had been godly before I would never had had the affair...

It is a vicious, sick circle we are in.


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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8 months is not a long time to be attempting to recover

give your husband more time to heal

8 months of your being unhappy with how he is REACTING to your A is nothing compared to the pain and unhappiness your A caused

8 months into our attempt at recovery:
-i was still crying when the weather came on and it mentioned the town the OW lived in
-i was still questioning if i even wanted to still be married to my H even though he was trying hard
-i hadn't forgiven him and didn't know if i could
-i surely didn't trust him
-i wasn't really committed to changing ME because i thought he was the one with the problem
-i was still so hurt and angry

buy time however you can

i even recall reading here somewher that for many BS, at 6 months into recovery, things get worse for some reason because regardless of how things have been going, they question if they did the right think taking their spouse back

you can always choose to divorce later....so choose to stay married now


You have to understand he shows NO emotions so whatever emotions he may have, he hasn't even dealt with them yet. I wish he was at least attending IC to be able to express his anger, resentment, fears, everything to someone.... but he isn't. He did however, consult with an attorney.

At this point, I don't want recovery, I want him to seek help so he can figure out IF he wants to recover!! He seems to be just sitting there waiting for some sign from God that tells him what to do (or for me to file for D whichever comes first).


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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it has been a long 8 months and there is no light at the end of this tunnel.


~you~ are the light at the end of the tunnel

it's been ~only~ 8 months

if ~you~ want to be the hero (and I think you ought to volunteer for that position) ... then be the hero ... be the light

love him
and if he is withdrawn ... you be the light anyway

and if he is sad ... you be the light

and if he is unable to express his unimaginable pain ... you be the soft place for him to fall

Pep

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scary because this is what got us in this mess in the first place.


NO, NO, NO. What got you in this mess in the first place was sleeping with another man. I don't care what the state of your M was... it was not a reason to have an affair.


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I am human, I made a mistake, I made many mistakes. But isn't it a bigger sin for him to stay with me filled with resentment, anger, frustration?


IMO, no. You sound somewhat off here.

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But right now I have no right to bring God into this because if I had been godly before I would never had had the affair...

Ridiculous statement on his part.


Look, in a way you have to take more than you would normally because of your actions.... BUT (note the caps).. you do not have to be a doormat and most certainly do not need to stay in something that was NEVER healthy if he is not willing to work on it.

See, people painted him as this saint here in the past and I saw some HUGE issues with him. I will get on you about your affair... and remember, I did... but that does not mean you need to settle for a less that good marriage. YOU need to be sensitive to what you have done... but he needs to row this boat too.

So, some tough questions...

Do you think you set the bar too high? Do you think you are looking at him fairly?

Can you ever see yourself having another affair?

What are you going to do next?

Are you afraid to tell him that you need for the two of you to be in therapy because you will NOT accept a marriage that is failing. That you need to do what you can to see that it survives.

He knows that YOU will never file for divorce out of fear of WHAT??? He is just waiting for you to fail again is a normal feeling. See again, much of my opinion here goes back to your previous thread when I had a much different view of him than others.

I remember you coming here subsequent to that thread and saying he only hung around to make sure you wouldn't go back to the OM. When he was sure of that, he lost interest. Honestly, based on what you have told us here, I have always doubted your H's sincerity to have a good marriage. And you will not find me sticking up for many FWS over a BS... but in this case... something has always rubbed me wrong about him (even when he was being knighted here on this site).

YOu need a plan. I would say call the Harley's if you think that is necessary. I would think though a MC and IC for YOU are more in order. I would love to see him in a IC office, but I do not see that happening.

I am sorry for you McB. I am sorry for your H too.

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Eight months is much too early to expect a lot of healing, and especially when there is a child.

Does your husband have any good points, or was it 16 years of misery?

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...but his heart is not in it.


Becca, how do you KNOW this?

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I am starting to see he has no faith that God can pull us through this.


Do YOU have faith that God can pull you two through this?

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So the latest was "I am staying because of the children" which sounds very novel and unselfish but the reality is sooner or later that too gets old.


What does his reason for staying matter?

He's choosing to stay w/ you.

Every moment is a new opportunity to connect w/ him....reach out to him...build up your M.

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So I think in many ways, that's why he is still here, he is afraid I will not make it on my own.


You are ASSUMING stuff about him, Becca.

Again, I ask you, WHY does it matter to you what his reason is for staying?

You have opportunity here...why not go for it?

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Oh well... it has been a long 8 months and there is no light at the end of this tunnel.


That's b/c your focus is on HIM and not on YOU.

YOU have plenty of power, Becca.

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He has to participate in the marriage and he is not.


He's not participating in your M? Really?

Isn't he having SF w/ you? Paying the bills? Caring for your kids? Coming home every night?

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Sure, I can go back to the way things were before the A when I did all the work, I did all the planning, I did all the romance, I did all those things. Yet where did that get us? nowhere.... that's what he is doing right now.


I hear you saying you resent the things you did for your M before the A.

Where's your ownership of the choices you made w/ regards to them?

You chose to "do all the work", "all the planning", "all the romance". Your BH didn't force you to do them.

What did you expect to get from doing those things?

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He doesn't want to talk about the A or the issues, he doesn't want to seek help. This is WAY beyond anything we can fix ourselves. He won't even read the books recommended to help HIM heal. Nevermind to fix anything....


Why don't you accept his choice to manage his pain the way he wants to?


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However, sitting around not doing anything about it, is not going to resolved anything.


Becca, how do you KNOW he's NOT processing his pain?

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Is that what R is?


Love him, Becca.

Accept him...and his choices...

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He won't even talk about it... he is keeping all the hurt and anger inside.


Why MUST he talk about it, right now?

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How is that helpful to anyone?


It must be helping him in some way.

Maybe he feels safer NOT talking about it?

I don't know. I can only guess.

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No, he won't talk about it or allow to have any emotions over it.


He has feelings about all of this, Becca, but he doesn't want to share them.

Is THAT a sin? Unforgivable?

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or at least treats her/loves her the same way he does our other two. I am so grateful for that.

Doesn't THIS put deposits in your LB, Becca?

Doesn't THIS count as participation?

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He is exactly as he was before the A, passive on all counts. If I initiate, he participates, but again just passive... coasting along.


In other words, he IS participating in your M. When you initiate things w/ him, he doesn't reject you. He reaches back.

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So much of our relationship right now is like it was before, it is scary!! scary because this is what got us in this mess in the first place.


No, Becca, the mess you are in is b/c of your thinking prior to your A (feelings of resentments and feelings of entitlement) coupled w/ your choice to have the A...

Do you know why you chose to have it?

B/c answering THAT question is THE KEY to your recovery. It's not about changing your BH, it's about understanding yourself better.

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But he won't take ANY responsibility for the relationship issues before the A. In many ways, he has the upper hand now and as such, he makes sure that if I bring anything up to remind me that I am the one who had the affair...


It sounds to me like he thinks you are trying to blame him for your A.

What have you learned, Becca? How have YOU changed prior to your A? Are you still stacking up resentments against him?

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But isn't it a bigger sin for him to stay with me filled with resentment, anger, frustration? (all hidden inside of course never to be shown outwardly until the right time comes along).


Becca, are you angry? Are you resentful? Are you frustrated?

Feelings aren't sins.

Only actions can be sinful.

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He says he was happy with how things were.... that we had an "ok" marriage. I agree, it was an "ok" marriage if you go by secular standards, but it was NOT a Godly marriage by any means.


Where's your ownership, Becca?

Your M wasn't "Godly" so you had an A to make it "Godly"?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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He was disrespectul to me as a woman BEFORE the A, now he can say he has REASONS to be


How is he disrespectful to you?

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How does that make for a good example for children? No f'cking way.... I SAW how his father treated his mother, she was his cook, his nurse, his doormat and the lady never had an affair! Is that what I want my girls to think is the proper way to be treated in a marriage? or relationship? Of course not. That is NOT Godly.


Do you think YOU are a doormat to him?

B/c you think you don't have a godly marriage, you are going to D your BH w/o a Biblical basis?

How is THAT Godly?

Your BH HAS the Biblical authority to D YOU, but you don't (as far as I can see from what you've written here) have the authority to D him.

Becca, you have come a long way. But, some of your thinking is still wayward.

Please focus on YOU, and the things you can do to change your perspective.

~ Marsh

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scary because this is what got us in this mess in the first place.


NO, NO, NO. What got you in this mess in the first place was sleeping with another man. I don't care what the state of your M was... it was not a reason to have an affair.

You are absolutely right, The affair was ALL me and my selfish needs. I take 100% responsibility for that, an affair is NEVER the answer no matter what...


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I am human, I made a mistake, I made many mistakes. But isn't it a bigger sin for him to stay with me filled with resentment, anger, frustration?


IMO, no. You sound somewhat off here.

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But right now I have no right to bring God into this because if I had been godly before I would never had had the affair...

Ridiculous statement on his part.


Look, in a way you have to take more than you would normally because of your actions.... BUT (note the caps).. you do not have to be a doormat and most certainly do not need to stay in something that was NEVER healthy if he is not willing to work on it.

No, our relationship was never healthy in many ways. For starters and I think I mentioned this before, he has never seen me as an equal, to him I am (as a woman) inferior, weak, emotional, volitile, confusing and right down too much work. He sees women in general as nothing but a road block in life, he feels if men rule the world, it would be a much better place, things would get done, there would be no issues.... yes, that sounds sick as I type it but these are HIS words almost word for word. When he became a Christian he stopped saying many of these things outloud, but he still made sure I knew them. I have always felt inadequate around him, inferior and even useless.

See, people painted him as this saint here in the past and I saw some HUGE issues with him. I will get on you about your affair... and remember, I did... but that does not mean you need to settle for a less that good marriage. YOU need to be sensitive to what you have done... but he needs to row this boat too.

Well, to make matters even better, he is passive agressive so a lot of our issues for the good part of our marriage have been blamed on me.... because I am woman and as such he feels I make his world difficult (he says this about ALL women, not just me... the ones he works with, his mother, his daughters etc). Am I too sensitive? It wasn't until I met other men who DO appreciate the qualities of women that I realize how f'cked up his mind is.
So, some tough questions...

Do you think you set the bar too high? Do you think you are looking at him fairly?

I had NO expectations of him for a long time.... I simply thougth this is how life is suppose to be. However, the affair as wrong as it may be, did open my eyes to a lot of things including what exactly my emotional needs are. When this was brought up in counseling he was willing to do whatever possible to make that happen, however now he says he was only doing that to keep me from running away with OM, so in other words, no he was not sincere. Is it too high to expect to be respected as a woman? It wasn't there BEFORE the A, imagine now.... when I asked him if he ever respected me, he couldn't answer it because he "doesn't remember back that far" (16 yrs)

Can you ever see yourself having another affair?

No no and NOT EVEN IF I HAD A KNIFE OR A GUN TO MY HEAD! what I do see is a divorce at age 50 or when the kids leave the house

What are you going to do next?

I have told him how I feel, I have repented, I have been forgiven by God and I feel His presence in my life again. My mind and heart tell me it is time for me to let him go.

Are you afraid to tell him that you need for the two of you to be in therapy because you will NOT accept a marriage that is failing. That you need to do what you can to see that it survives.

I have told him that and his answer is "either you like it the way it is RIGHT NOW, or move on"

He knows that YOU will never file for divorce out of fear of WHAT??? He is just waiting for you to fail again is a normal feeling. See again, much of my opinion here goes back to your previous thread when I had a much different view of him than others.

Yes, he says people do not change (and he speaks from his own experience because he told the counselor he was going to change by sooner rather than later he was back to being himself) therefore he expects that I am going to screw him againe....

I remember you coming here subsequent to that thread and saying he only hung around to make sure you wouldn't go back to the OM. When he was sure of that, he lost interest. Honestly, based on what you have told us here, I have always doubted your H's sincerity to have a good marriage. And you will not find me sticking up for many FWS over a BS... but in this case... something has always rubbed me wrong about him (even when he was being knighted here on this site).

Funny you mention this..... someone he works with who was meeting him for the first time told him flat out to his face "you don't have sisters do you? " and he answerd "no I don't" and she said to him "I can tell because you are insincere" he was SHOCKED that someone could ever think of him that way! for weeks he couldn't stop wondering how she could see that...... it really bothered him because he doesn't see that himself. Yet, actions do speak louder than words and he does/says a lot of things that make others feel he is not sincere.

YOu need a plan. I would say call the Harley's if you think that is necessary. I would think though a MC and IC for YOU are more in order. I would love to see him in a IC office, but I do not see that happening.

No, he said he "might" some day... but not now, even the books I have bought for US to read, he won't touch. Again, he never used to respect my opinion (before the A) imagine now? I am scum

I am sorry for you McB. I am sorry for your H too.


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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Last edited by eav1967; 02/22/07 11:29 PM.
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Becca, how do you KNOW this?

Because he's told me this. We had a conversation about the time we were separated the first time, he was dating someone and he had to break up with her so we can get back together. He never told me this before but he told me that it was HARD for him to do that (break up with her) and that they even cried together when he broke it off with her. I told him "wow, you must have been in love with her" and he said he doesn't remember. So I said "you never even cried during the birth of your children or for me" his answer was "I don't remember"..... this conversation made me realize of course he is the way he is towards me, we were so freaking young when we got married, we were in HEAT not in love! His heart has never been in this marriage. I do not even KNOW his heart.
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I am starting to see he has no faith that God can pull us through this.


Do YOU have faith that God can pull you two through this?

Funny you said, I JUST asked him that same question. Yes, I DO believe God can make something beautiful out of all this crap I created, but he doesn't. He said he thinks God is telling him to GET OUT before something worse happens (what on earth can be worse than this?).....

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So the latest was "I am staying because of the children" which sounds very novel and unselfish but the reality is sooner or later that too gets old.


What does his reason for staying matter?

Because his version of "staying for the kids" is unhealthy. He wants to do nothing about the issues (related to the A not even about the M) and how can that be healthy? if resentment, anger and frustration is not dealt with, is that going to become LOVE at some point???

He's choosing to stay w/ you.

He said he is doing this just to keep OM away

Every moment is a new opportunity to connect w/ him....reach out to him...build up your M.

That's all I've been doing.... but it is the biggest brick wall there is.

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So I think in many ways, that's why he is still here, he is afraid I will not make it on my own.


You are ASSUMING stuff about him, Becca.

All I can do is assume and wonder.... he won't share his TRUE feelings or heart.... he told me he has NO feelings..... I find that hard to believe!

Again, I ask you, WHY does it matter to you what his reason is for staying?
It matters to me because this is how his family handles issues "sweep" them under the rug and they will disappear.... he is GREAT at that but his anger comes out in other ways.....

You have opportunity here...why not go for it?

He is closed off to anything I do or say.... my actions to him are not sincere or truthful.... he has hard time trusting people and now I have given him a reason. He had no respect for my opinion BEFORE the A.... now I am might as well be painted on the wall....

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Oh well... it has been a long 8 months and there is no light at the end of this tunnel.


That's b/c your focus is on HIM and not on YOU.

Again, I focus on him because I believe he nees healing.... even if we D, he needs to heal from all this but he won't seek help

YOU have plenty of power, Becca.

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He has to participate in the marriage and he is not.


He's not participating in your M? Really?

Isn't he having SF w/ you? Paying the bills? Caring for your kids? Coming home every night?

Yes, he told me he is doing this out of his sense of responsibility.... not because he wants to.

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Sure, I can go back to the way things were before the A when I did all the work, I did all the planning, I did all the romance, I did all those things. Yet where did that get us? nowhere.... that's what he is doing right now.


I hear you saying you resent the things you did for your M before the A.

Where's your ownership of the choices you made w/ regards to them?

You chose to "do all the work", "all the planning", "all the romance". Your BH didn't force you to do them.

No he didn't force me, and I thought I was doing the right thing.... I thought it was my job to do those things.... I see now that God does not want a passive husband and that it is HIS responsibility to do those things as well.

What did you expect to get from doing those things?

I guess I expected appreciation and I guess it was my way to show him how much I loved him....

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He doesn't want to talk about the A or the issues, he doesn't want to seek help. This is WAY beyond anything we can fix ourselves. He won't even read the books recommended to help HIM heal. Nevermind to fix anything....


Why don't you accept his choice to manage his pain the way he wants to?
Because he isn't managing the pain in any way... he is just pushing it aside and in his own words "we (his family) are great at sweeping things under the rug"

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However, sitting around not doing anything about it, is not going to resolved anything.


Becca, how do you KNOW he's NOT processing his pain?

I don't know.... he won't share, when I bring it up, all I get from him is "I don't know...."

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Is that what R is?


Love him, Becca.

Accept him...and his choices...

He is very hard to love. I don't feel a connection to him, there is no intimacy, I really do not know who he is..... he is a stranger to me.

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He won't even talk about it... he is keeping all the hurt and anger inside.


Why MUST he talk about it, right now?

Because again, if we ignore this, it is NOT going to make it go away.... he wishes that was the case.

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How is that helpful to anyone?


It must be helping him in some way.

Maybe he feels safer NOT talking about it?

I don't know. I can only guess.

Your guess is as good as mine......

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No, he won't talk about it or allow to have any emotions over it.


He has feelings about all of this, Becca, but he doesn't want to share them.


Is THAT a sin? Unforgivable?

No of course not, but to him knowledge is power and if he were to share himself with me, he would be giving me power.....

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or at least treats her/loves her the same way he does our other two. I am so grateful for that.

Doesn't THIS put deposits in your LB, Becca?

Doesn't THIS count as participation?

Yes, and I tell him so. I always tell him how grateful I am for how much he loves the baby.

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He is exactly as he was before the A, passive on all counts. If I initiate, he participates, but again just passive... coasting along.


In other words, he IS participating in your M. When you initiate things w/ him, he doesn't reject you. He reaches back.

Yes, that is how are M has always been.... he is a passive participant... he may complain about what I plan or what I want to do but then he does it and has a blast.....

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So much of our relationship right now is like it was before, it is scary!! scary because this is what got us in this mess in the first place.


No, Becca, the mess you are in is b/c of your thinking prior to your A (feelings of resentments and feelings of entitlement) coupled w/ your choice to have the A...

Do you know why you chose to have it?

Yes, there are many reasons why.... and as hard as it may sound, one of them was just to know if he even care. Another reason was that my heart was empty and instead of seeking God to fill it, I seeked another man. I was lonely, depressed and needed to feel loved. All selfish reasons, but those are my reasons.

B/c answering THAT question is THE KEY to your recovery. It's not about changing your BH, it's about understanding yourself better.

I do understand the whys now.... which is why our situation right now makes me wonder what on earth I am doing here.

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But he won't take ANY responsibility for the relationship issues before the A. In many ways, he has the upper hand now and as such, he makes sure that if I bring anything up to remind me that I am the one who had the affair...


It sounds to me like he thinks you are trying to blame him for your A.

Yes. that is absoutely correct. He thinks if he goes to counseling or read the books, he is going to be blamed for some things and he doesn't want that.

What have you learned, Becca? How have YOU changed prior to your A? Are you still stacking up resentments against him?

No, I will get out of here before I allow that to happen. I've learned that without the connection, closseness and intimacy with him, I might as well leave because that is not the kind of marriage that can succeed.

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But isn't it a bigger sin for him to stay with me filled with resentment, anger, frustration? (all hidden inside of course never to be shown outwardly until the right time comes along).


Becca, are you angry? Are you resentful? Are you frustrated?

Feelings aren't sins.

Only actions can be sinful.

I am extremly frustrated, emotionally exhausted, and thirsty for companionship.

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He says he was happy with how things were.... that we had an "ok" marriage. I agree, it was an "ok" marriage if you go by secular standards, but it was NOT a Godly marriage by any means.


Where's your ownership, Becca?

Your M wasn't "Godly" so you had an A to make it "Godly"?

No, I never really knew what a Godly marriage was until after the A, after reading ans seeking God's word.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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He was disrespectul to me as a woman BEFORE the A, now he can say he has REASONS to be


How is he disrespectful to you?

His view of women is that we are not capable of much other than trouble. We are not efficient, or as intelligent as men are, we are not as driven or as capable as men are. His views are so distorted.

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How does that make for a good example for children? No f'cking way.... I SAW how his father treated his mother, she was his cook, his nurse, his doormat and the lady never had an affair! Is that what I want my girls to think is the proper way to be treated in a marriage? or relationship? Of course not. That is NOT Godly.


Do you think YOU are a doormat to him?

I am an obstacle to him. If I wasn't in his life, he would have so much more money and "toys"....

B/c you think you don't have a godly marriage, you are going to D your BH w/o a Biblical basis?

How is THAT Godly?

I committed adultery, the only time when God allows for divorce. He is very well aware of that and he is willing to give m a D if I am the one to file.

Your BH HAS the Biblical authority to D YOU, but you don't (as far as I can see from what you've written here) have the authority to D him.

Becca, you have come a long way. But, some of your thinking is still wayward.

Please focus on YOU, and the things you can do to change your perspective.

I don't know how else to change my thinking. Is it wrong for me to want him to heal so he can figure out if we can R or not?

~ Marsh [/quote]


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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