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And you know what, life would be AWESOME if I was a robot without feelings, emotions and needs. BUT I AM NOT, nobody is.... yet that is how I would need to be to make him happy and I am tired, discouraged and frustrated.

I don't want him to fix our marriage, I just wish he would seek help to heal so he can figure out what he wants. Is that too much to expect at this point? He keeps telling me "we aren't gettting any younger" NO KIDDING!! he doesn't want to be 50 yrs old and still dealing with this crap!

Our marriage produced two beautiful girls, through our marriage we found salvation. Those are things I wouldn't change. But let's face it, when the children are gone, there will be nothing left but each other. If we don't work at it now, we will have nothing then. But we can't work at anything until he is healed, and ready.


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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McBecca

8 months into our "recovery" my H was just like you are now, he thought i should be doing so much more to forgive him because MY feelings about WHAT HE DID were making him feel bad. (so "heal faster from the pain I caused you so I can feel better faster)

it doesn't sound to me like you understand that you are going through withdrawl from the affair.

1. you still see little hope for your future with your H

2. You want all the "good feelings" that you were having in the 'fantasy land" with the OM and your H isn't doing anything to let you feel that way.

your H is doing everything in his power to HEAL HIMSELF enough to find the strength to work on healing your marriage.

3. you don't seem to be very appreciative of a man who is willing to try to forgive your A, rebuild your marraige and accept a child you had with someone else.

4. you don't sound like someone who realizes the damage that your A has done OR has accepted that recovery will take years of hard work

4. you are filled with RESENTMENT toward your H and you are sounding vey selfish.....you honestly sound to me like a person who would be headed TOWARD an affair-not a person trying to recover from one

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if you want to recover your marraige, i would suggest that you begin by making a list of the things that you LOVE or even LIKE about your husband. This will give you something positive to think about him and will cause positive feelings.

then PLAN A HIM. make deposits in his love bank. You emptied it during the A.

plan A...make deposits when he will let you by meeting his needs and don't expect ANYTHING in return.

when you MAKE him happy by meeting HIS needs, he may want to make YOU happy by meeting YOUR needs


please read lostsheeps thread

she came here just like you are and has come very far in her thinking

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I would suggest AGAINST that thread.... LS has made some strides but has a long way to go before OM is out of her system. Becca needs to focus on a M... not that situation, IMVHO. Obviously it is just an opinion.

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maybe you should consider changing the title of your thread to something like:

i'm a FWS...how can I help my husband heal so he wants to work on our marriage?

this might bring you some help from some posters who fully understand the MB concepts and how to apply them to your situation

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From Penalty Kill

McBecca, I'm sorry for what you and your H and your children are going through. But I think you are being very impatient with your H, whatever his flaws may be. We all have flaws, each and every one of us. Big honking ones.

Please listen to eav when she tells you that 8 months is a drop in the bucket when it comes to recovery....because it is. At 8 months, my H and I were still on the 120 foot drop roller coaster. I just hung on and did what I had to do, one day at a time. It's recovery, and that's what you're supposed to do. My H did the same. Some days were easier than others.

It's 19 months out and things are much smoother....and we don't have an OC in the picture.

You said this:

Quote
Yes, I DO believe God can make something beautiful out of all this crap I created, but he doesn't.

Oh boy. If I suggested to my H that G-d, or anyone else could make something beautiful out of my infidelity, I don't want to think about what would happen. You can make something good in spite of it, maybe, but not out of it.

After the first week or so of recovery, I stopped talking about forgiveness with my H. I realized that forgiveness is a personal issue of his that I had no control over. To be perfectly honest, his forgiveness was not my concern. My concern was taking care of my children, loving them and loving my H.

Drop the things you can't control. Focus on the things that you can: yourself and your actions and your reactions. Don't think about the future, concentrate on the day at hand. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil therof"

Just my .02

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I totally agree with eav. Please re-read her last two posts to you again and again.

Becca, it's clear that you have no idea in the world just how deeply, deeply wounded your husband is. He is struggling to walk on two broken legs, but you are impatient with him and complaining that he doesn't seem to feel like running a marathon.

Back off.

Let him be.

He will heal in his own way and in his own time.

Just worry about the small positive moment-to-moment things you can do for him.

If/when he wants your help or anyone else's help, he will seek it out.

He needs to heal in his own way. You are only making things worse by demanding that he heal YOUR way.
Mulan


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just a little 3 mos ago you posted

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So why am I STILL having thoughts of OM? I know OC has a lot to do with it. BH and I have talked about it. I've been able for the most part to share with him my thoughts when they happen.

I guess I am mostly "emotional" about the holidays and all that OM is missing because I chose to stayed married. Silly uh? I know in my heart of hearts that this is what is best for ALL of us including him, but still I am feeling GUILT over it!! WHY? WHY? WHY? Why can I feel guilt over the pain I caused BH instead of the pain OM could be feeling?

I want to get to the "angry" stage of withdrawl but it doesn't seem to be hapening yet! how much more?

Will there be a time when I no longer worry about OM? We have mutual friends and all I need to do is ask about him, but I haven't done it. I am afraid to know the truth... I am afraid of what they could tell me and I have asked them all to NOT talk about OM or anything related to OM. So far everyone is keeping their side of the bargain so why am I feeling like this? is it just because of the holidays? I truly hope so. Until I get these feelings sorted, I am just not happy.


Do you still have thoughts of the OM? Is he totally out of the picture? Perhaps your BH is getting these vibes. Seems to me more time is needed in his healing. Anyway - better to vent your frustrations here. Not sure of BH's sainthood but as for me - I could not handle being in his shoes.


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I will try to answer your questions as best as I can....

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McBecca

8 months into our "recovery" my H was just like you are now, he thought i should be doing so much more to forgive him because MY feelings about WHAT HE DID were making him feel bad. (so "heal faster from the pain I caused you so I can feel better faster)

That's not the case at all. You see, I am not asking him to forgive me, I am not asking him to work on the issues of the marriage, all I want is to know if he even wants to stay married. You see, originally (last D-day) he said he wanted to stay married and work on our marriage. A few montsh later he said "I said that because I wanted to keep you from OM" a few months after that he now says "I don't know what I want" so forgive me if I sound impatient but like only ONE other poster here seems to undrstand, there is a child involve who could very well end up withou t a father because BH cannot make up his mind as to what he wants to do. You see, BH said at the beginning he would ONLY stay in our marriage and raise OC IF I keep her from OM. Reluctantly I agreed. There has been NC with OM since then. BH has all my passowrds, access to my PC etc to monitor in case OM is trying to get in touch with me. However, now BH is saying if we divorce, OC will be 100% MY responsibility, in other words he will have no involvement with her. So part of my frustration is that this situation involves a child who may very well grow up WITOUT A FATHER because I keep doing what BH wants but yet, he changes his mind as to what he wants every other week! Sure that's what all BS's do, but don't you think that if he were to seek help professionally or at least spiritually, he could understand better that this is not about OM anymore? that we need to think of the child? T


it doesn't sound to me like you understand that you are going through withdrawl from the affair.

Trust me, the ****** I went through during withdrawl I Will never forget. Am I over it? in many ways yes I am. I have said here before, I see clearly now that OM is NOT an option for me. HOwever because of the baby, it isn't as cut and dry as in your situations where you can truly say that person will NEVER be in your lives again. OM still has the right to pursue custody/visitation. Because I chose to stay married, he has chosen to not purse this. But that could change. IF he knew what was going on, he would purse it.

1. you still see little hope for your future with your H

I agree with you on that. I see no hope. I had hope before, but not anymore.

2. You want all the "good feelings" that you were having in the 'fantasy land" with the OM and your H isn't doing anything to let you feel that way.

I never said I wanted the "good feelings", I just want BH to seek help so HE can begin to heal and we can see if there is any chance for US

your H is doing everything in his power to HEAL HIMSELF enough to find the strength to work on healing your marriage.

How so? I don't see him doing anything but ignoring that big white elephant in our living room.... you know, it doesn't go away if we don't talk about it.
3. you don't seem to be very appreciative of a man who is willing to try to forgive your A, rebuild your marraige and accept a child you had with someone else.

4. you don't sound like someone who realizes the damage that your A has done OR has accepted that recovery will take years of hard work

I DON'T WANT RECOVERY.... there is NO RECOVERY if there is no healing and there is no healing with out help. BH is like a bucket filled with holes, no matter how many deposits I make, until the holes are patched up, it is meaningless.

4. you are filled with RESENTMENT toward your H and you are sounding vey selfish.....you honestly sound to me like a person who would be headed TOWARD an affair-not a person trying to recover from one

Yes, I am starting to become resentful because it isn't just about the A anymore, we have a child to worry about. I have agreed to the deal breakers for him, keep OM away, NC with him whatsoever, BH will raise OC etc. But when he says things like "I am only doing this to keep you from OM" how can I believe that he has her best interest at heart? How can I not resent that he is using OC to keep OM from me and not because he is sincere that he wants to be a father to her? No I am not headed for an A, but most likely to file for D and end this once and for all.


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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I had so much GUILT over OC. See my other post, and it was around that time that BH decided to let me know he was only doing this (staying married) to keep OM from OC. So yes, I had many days where I questioned myself and my feelings. Over time I realized OM is not even part of the problem anymore, that the problem now is whether we can make our marriage work and provide ALL three children the loving home they need


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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I totally agree with eav. Please re-read her last two posts to you again and again.

Becca, it's clear that you have no idea in the world just how deeply, deeply wounded your husband is. He is struggling to walk on two broken legs, but you are impatient with him and complaining that he doesn't seem to feel like running a marathon.

Back off.

Let him be.

He will heal in his own way and in his own time.

Just worry about the small positive moment-to-moment things you can do for him.

If/when he wants your help or anyone else's help, he will seek it out.

He needs to heal in his own way. You are only making things worse by demanding that he heal YOUR way.
Mulan

(And these are his own words) he is the BEST at sweeping things under the rug and pretending they did not happen. That is something done in his family and this is how he deals with problems, how they all deal with problems. However, this is NOT something you can just dismiss and go on with life. Sure, we both are GREAT at puting on the "happy couple" show, but how is that healthy? Right now he is PRIME candidate for an affair of his own. He says he doesn't want to deal with this stuff ever again, but ignoring it isn't going to make that happen. Do I just sit here and wait for him to have his own affair so we can be in equal ground? The balance was off BEFORE the A, imagine what is like now?


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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However, now BH is saying if we divorce, OC will be 100% MY responsibility, in other words he will have no involvement with her. So part of my frustration is that this situation involves a child who may very well grow up WITOUT A FATHER because I keep doing what BH wants but yet, he changes his mind as to what he wants every other week! Sure that's what all BS's do, but don't you think that if he were to seek help professionally or at least spiritually, he could understand better that this is not about OM anymore? that we need to think of the child?


McB... I would come right out and tell your H the following...

If you ever make a comment like that about OUR daughetr again, I will find an intermediary and contact her bio dad so that he can begin visitation with the child. I am not going to be threatened with having OUR child grow up without a father and if you say it again, I will take that step to protect MY child's future. You have decided to stay and be her father... yet you continue to use her as a way to hurt me. That ends right now... either she is your daughter... or she is not. Pick now and live with your decision.

McB... This is exactly the stuff I warned everyone about when I was run off your thread the first time. So, where are all those people now that were slaming me for my opinion. Are they here helping you? Turns out your H is not being quite the father they built him up to be.... IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILD HAS A FATHER FOREVER!!! She cannot yet speak for herself... but IMAGINE the hurt she would have knowing what your H has said.

I would make sure you stay in NC and if need be, find someone that can contact the OM (only if the need arises) so that he can begin to develop a relationship with his daughter... AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY IF YOUR H REFUSES TO BE HER DAD... FOREVER.

I am keeping you in my thoughts.

MEDC

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McB,

With regard to your original inquiry, click here: "The Truth About Children and Divorce"

Peace,
--SC

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I think part of his fear is that if he divorces me, that I will allow OM to be in OC's life. But what else am I suppose to do? She has a bio-Dad and although he may have many flaws, he didn't have the A with me ALONE. I am just as flawed, but I have repented, I am aware of the issues that allowed me to get involved in the A. I made some very wrong choices, but that's not who I am. BH seems to think that only perfect people deserve to be parents. If that was the case, neither of us would be parents!

I am completely at peace with things now. I really am. I think that is probably why some of these BS seem me as frustrated and in "withdrawl" or angry, but the truth is, THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME anymore. My children come first, not BH or his pain. If that is selfish, I am sorry, but my children will be here long after he is gone. I owe it to them to make things right. My daughter is innocent in all of this and I am SO grateful that I had her regardless of the pain I am in, or BH is in or OM may be in. She is a blessing no matter what.

I realize divorce may just be the consequence to my sin, but divorce and all, my children are still my children and as such I have to protect them and that includes OC. If BH had said from the start that he wasn't going to be able to love her, I would have left without ever looking back. But it was his amazing confession that he wanted to raise her and love her as his own that kept me here, at that point I Realized he is a very special man and that I would do whatever it would take to make our marriage better. All that has changed now, now he doesn't know what he wants to do, now he is not sure he wants to stay married. Am I being selfish by wanting answers? what he decides affect my daughter (OC) more than the other two COM. OF course, I want answers. But some of those folks here seem to think I have to just continue to wait and wait and wait for him to decide he doesn't want us in the first place.


WW (me) 36 BH 37 Married 16 yrs 3 children, 12DD, 4DD, 7 mths DD (OC) D-day 8/05 2nd D-day 10/05 *OC* 3rd D-day 6/08/06 DD *OC* born ~~ If I had known then what I know now ~~
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McB... I would come right out and tell your H the following...

If you ever make a comment like that about OUR daughetr again, I will find an intermediary and contact her bio dad so that he can begin visitation with the child. I am not going to be threatened with having OUR child grow up without a father and if you say it again, I will take that step to protect MY child's future. You have decided to stay and be her father... yet you continue to use her as a way to hurt me. That ends right now... either she is your daughter... or she is not. Pick now and live with your decision.

McB... This is exactly the stuff I warned everyone about when I was run off your thread the first time. So, where are all those people now that were slaming me for my opinion. Are they here helping you? Turns out your H is not being quite the father they built him up to be.... IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILD HAS A FATHER FOREVER!!! She cannot yet speak for herself... but IMAGINE the hurt she would have knowing what your H has said.

I would make sure you stay in NC and if need be, find someone that can contact the OM (only if the need arises) so that he can begin to develop a relationship with his daughter... AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY IF YOUR H REFUSES TO BE HER DAD... FOREVER.

I am keeping you in my thoughts.

MEDC

MEDC - I couldn't disagree with you more.

I believe this approach is characterized by using the child as a weapon against her H. You are suggesting she threaten her H with contact with OM in order to attempt to force a change in his behaviour (to step up as a father). I do not award father of the year to him and, frankly, that is irrelevant. You are advising McBecca in a way that only makes it more likely she will see OM favorably as compared to her H. She already has some tendencies to do this without your help!

She is upset that her H is not being a good H and will not be a good father. Perhaps -- although I do not necessarily read it that way. However, even assuming this is 100% correct, I believe your approach is the wrong one. Rather, she should worry about the lack of "husband-ing" and "father-ing" first and without regard to OM. Then if, and only if, she decides to divorce should she worry at all about the best way to ensure her children have a father and good example of what a husband should be -- this may or may not include OM. Whether OM decides to enter his child's life through some custody arrangement is not relevant to the discussion. McBecca can not control that, should not control that, and should not even be thinking about the OM. If OM decides to get involved, then and only then McBecca and her H can decide how best to manage that for their family (or McBecca can decide how to manage that for herself if she has divorced her H).

Be very careful in giving this advice. I cannot see any good in what you have recommended.

Todd


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MEDC - I couldn't disagree with you more.
I believe this approach is characterized by using the child as a weapon against her H. You are suggesting she threaten her H with contact with OM in order to attempt to force a change in his behaviour (to step up as a father).

I completely agree with Todd on this. MEDC, I am amazed that you would suggest such a thing. It would only make things far worse and almost certainly lead to a divorce.

I would again tell Becca: *back off.* Stop worrying about how fast your husband is healing or what it's going to lead to or how it might be this way or that way in the future.

Just *leave him alone.* Don't worry about anything except what's happening right now, today, this minute. Stop pushing him and stop telling him how to heal. You do NOT know what he's processing in his head - you might think you know, but you don't.

You don't.
Mulan


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I see both of your points.... Mulan and Todd... but I disagree.
First off, I was very clear that there would be NO contact with the OM. Please read my post again.
As far as the rest of it goes, the child deserves a father and if her H does not want the job or threatens to walk away from HIS daughter, then IMO it is time to involve the bio dad in the childs life. That you do not agree is okay... I am equally amazed at your positions as I DO NOT see marriage as being the most important role of a parent. I am just aghast that he would say the child would be without HIM ever again. That shows me that he either doesn't love the child or is using the child as a threat against McB. Neither of those things are acceptable in my book.
And Todd, it is not threatening HIM... it is responding as a responsible parent to his threat to harm his daughter. I could not disagree with your perspective any more strongly... but support your right to voice your opinion. I won't tell you to be careful giving YOUR advice... not because it has any more merit than mine... but because McB is a big girl that can come to her own conclusions.
Just so I am clear, my number one priority is to give advice that I feel is in the childs best interest.... the marriage is secondary to me. I do think McB needs to give her H some room... but that does not mean to tolerate threats that he will leave his daughter. Because any father that can threaten to leave his child is not really a parent to that child in my eyes.

Todd, I haven't seen you around in a while... I hope you are well.

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MEDC, come on! The best thing these two can do for their daughter, (and the BH is the only father this girl has ever known correct?) is to repair their marriage. Their daughter will be better served by being raised by both her parents in a loving and happy home than by anything else. That means that taking care of the marriage is the #1 priority for the well being of the daughter.

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I would again tell Becca: *back off.* Stop worrying about how fast your husband is healing or what it's going to lead to or how it might be this way or that way in the future.

Just *leave him alone.* Don't worry about anything except what's happening right now, today, this minute. Stop pushing him and stop telling him how to heal. You do NOT know what he's processing in his head - you might think you know, but you don't.

You don't.
Mulan


I agree 100%! I have been following this, and here's what I'VE seen in reading your most recent posts. You are still thinking ME ME ME. You paint it with, "I want what's best for my DD" but it still wreaks of ME ME ME. You haven't given your H enough time to digest this! Yes, it's been 8 months, WHO CARES HOW LONG IT'S BEEN! Everyone heals at their own rates. Imagine how you would have felt if your H pressured you in the same way. No, wait, didn't he do that when he told you to choose? I bet you didn't like it, right? Made you not want to give him the time of day. Think back to the time where H told you he would raise this little girl if you went NC with OM. Remember how you felt? Well, you are now giving him ultimatums. Is it fair for either of you? NEVER! I agree and think that you need to just back off. Let him stew. He is staying in the M, regardless of what "excuses" he's given you! He still loves you. Think of what you've said, "He is only staying M'd to me so I don't go back to OM." He still wants you, otherwise he would have D'd you long ago and let OM have you. I say to do a plan A, fulfill as many ENs as you can. Who cares if you think he's a bucket with holes, you don't have to fill it with water to fill it. Use stones that are bigger than the holes. Get what I'm saying. Stop the pitty party. You are a Christian, right? Well, read the book of Jonah. Notice how he ran away every time, and then, when things didn't go his way(God saved Ninevah) he threw himself a pitty party and told God to kill him! Look at what you HAVE right now! Not what you think you should have.

Ok, enough with the 2x4, but please take what I said to heart. If your H didn't want you anymore, he would be long gone.


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Game face... yes, the best thing for this girl is the parents being together. I agree 100%. I think McB needs to give this EVERYTHING she has. Nothing i am saying contradicts that. I think McB owes him her all.... just like this father owes the daughter his all despite his issues with his wife right now... and again, remember, according to McB, these issues existed long before her affair. I still think they shoudl do everything they can to fix things...but HE cannot threaten to leave his daughter. That is the only part that is not okay. For the most part, I think your post hits the nail on the head.

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