I know - that has probably been the harding thing to deal with ... that I hurt the man I love so much so deeply. That has been absolutely the hardest thing to accept about myself during this process.


He seems to as well! One minute he's asking if I still love him, the next saying he has to go and is angry. I am trying my best to be supportive, understanding, and quiet when those times arise.


It is so hard not to do this, but over the last week I have slowed down on doing just for him. I still do for the family - laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. But I have made fewer efforts to do things just for him.


Again, this is difficult. But you are right. He is certainly more attentive when I seem self-sufficient and happy in my own right.


I agree. I have made sure not to apologize over and over and over again. I do apologize when discussions of the A come up, but I don't just keep saying how sorry I am. He asked me to quit saying "I love you" too. So I decided the best way that I could show that I am sorry and that I love him is through my actions. Let's hope he notices!


I never wanted to lose my H or my M. I wanted his attention ... I should have looked for another way to get it though. I will be praying that your W comes out of the fog soon and realizes what she's missing out on.

Thank you so much for your kind advice. I am just going to plan A the heck out of him over the next 3 months and hope he changes his mind. But he's already told people he's getting a D and that concerns me. It seems like a lot of his decision to leave is ego ... understandable, since I shot it. But I told him the other night: "Its not up to your friends. Your friends can only tell you what THEY would do. They are not you and cannot tell you what you should do. Only you know what will make you happy and what you are willing to do."

Last night he told me that he was upset because he thinks that I feel like he just gave up and he feels like he tried. I told him that if he feels in his heart that he really gave it a shot, then that's ok. He quickly said something about it not being ok because it really matters what I think. I think he gave up ... but it is ultimately his choice to stay or go.

Sorry my posts are always so darn long. Thanks for "listening".

tfc

Good morning. Don't ever worry about long posts. This is the place to ramble, vent, etc.

Your H has a lot of pain to work through. You can't make it go any faster for him. But you can continue to show with your actions that you really are committed to making your M work.

Forgiveness is a process. It takes time for both a WS and BS to go through all the yuck and emotions to get to forgiveness.

Give yourself time to forgive yourself. That will help in healing your M as well.

I'm in your cheering section. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks so much! He says he has forgiven me already and that he's not mad. This is most concerning because if he has forgiven and isn't mad and still doesn't want to be married, he's given up on this M. It is so hard to accept that this M is over ... I'm not giving up, but it is hard to think in terms of us not being together.

Since he travels so much, I thought that phone counseling with the Harleys may be our best bet. What does everyone think?

I think a call to the Harley's would be great!

Has your H read "Wild At Heart?" Have you? It might give you some insight into a man's heart. One of the things John Eldridge says is that a man's biggest fear is failure.

I'm sure your H is doing a lot of self-talk and considers himself a failure because he either wasn't enough to keep you by his side, or didn't love you enough to keep you happy.

I'm just speculating-not being male-but I know I did that alot after d-day.

So, keep on doing what you are doing-call the Harleys. Get a plan. And most importantly-keep hanging in there!

Wow... now there's "pea soup" level fog.
Obviously, this is NOT about YOUR feelings.

Maybe what he really feels, is that he cant respect *himself*, unless he divorces you.

either that, or he's having an affair with that woman, of course.

Hang in there. dont give up on your husband!
(and dont say "whatever you want" to his divorce whims either....)

Crazy right? I think he is cheating, but I waver on that too. I am just doing my best to be a good person despite all the craziness.

Any suggestions on getting him to commit to a session with the Harleys? Or should I have one session alone first?

Ask him. It can't hurt to ask him if he's willing to do a phone counseling appointment with some people who are real specialists on helping M's survive after A's. Tell him it might help him decide what he wants to do since he is so conflicted.

It does sound like he's in a fog. Maybe he is having an revenge affair (not unheard of). Maybe he is so hurt he doesn't want to face you and the pain of it all. Maybe he is a conflict avoider who is trying to avoid you and ongoing conflict. Who knows? I would encourage you not to put your energy towards the "what if's" and "maybe's". Keep focused on your M and your plan.

If he won't agree to phone counseling-he will still be in the same place he is-and you can do it without him and be working on the only person in this M you have control over-you.

That can't be a bad thing.

He says he is willing to do MC, but won't commit to a date/time. He says he wants it to be over, but then agrees to MC. I think he's just as confused as I am right now! But he seems to have his mind made up that he is done here, and I just can't stop fighting for it.

In the meantime, how does everyone feel about checking up on him/snooping to figure out if there is a RA going on? He is suddenly keeping his computer and cell phone permanently attached to his body and then was staying out all night last week?

I don't know about snooping, although his behavior is suspicious but I think his waffling is a good sign. Maybe you can approach the phone thing as a
"let's give it one last try and then, you will be able to decide..."

Just a suggestion.....

TforC,

I think you might want to do some checking to see if he is having an affair. However, in my time here I have seen many people especially men, that have felt that their W's affair was a personal condemnation of them as men and husbands. I would also guess that since you felt lonely and not loved and he travels so much he may feel he cannot give you what you need. But, even more than that, I have heard it said here that divorce allows them to start over.

I realize you don't want the divorce to happen. But, also realize that you had the A with his best friend, and OM's W knows of it. Thus it is likely that many of his friends and acquaintances are aware of your A or he feels they are. Now the issue is how does he look in their eyes? You could rightly point out that what others think is not an issue.

But, the man just lost his best friend (you) and he lost his closest male friend OM, so how he looks to others may be more important that usual.

I do hope you call the Harley's even if he will not be around. They are very good and they can offer you insights and approaches that can be very useful to you.

Hang in there, he is in a period of flux. If you plan A him, speak kindly to him, and use the power of touch, this may will turn around. I guess I should mention touch. Women do it all the time to one another, but men don't often allow contact with another person. Therefore, when you put your hand on his, or on his arm as you talk to him, it WILL have an affect on him. He may pull away because he understands the affect your touch has, yes it is positive, but it may make him feel vulnerable.

Give the Harley's a call. I think they can offer you more than we can here.

God Bless,

JL

Well, last night he told me he's been concerned that he's making the wrong decision by leaving, but feels like leaving is the only way to regain his manhood. I understand this, but doesn't it take more of a man to stand up and face his problems head on than to turn and run away? He agreed to phone counseling with the Harleys ... let's see if he can commit to a date/time now. He did cuddle up to me in bed this morning, something he's usually been fighting against doing. I also picked up "Marriage Fitness" on my way home last night and he actually scanned the book and we did one of the questionnaires! I told him the Harley questionnaires were better and he said maybe we could do one another night soon!

I don't want to get my hopes up too high, but these all seem like pretty good signs right?

It's definitely a good sign that he is willing to do phone counseling with the Harleys-they are the experts in this area.

Have you heard of the book Respect and Love? The main thing men need is respect from their wives. I'm sure your A has been a huge slap in the face to him.

That book recommends you write a letter to him letting him know what you respect about him. I'd recommend reading the book first and getting some input from BH's on this forum to see if that would be a good idea right now.

It's just a suggestion from my little world and not being a man, I may be off base. Any one else?

Sounds good TFC!At least it is a step forward!Baby steps!I haven't even heard from my H in almost a week!I am feeling very discouraged!

Don't be too discouraged jk ... remember my H didn't come home 2 nights in a row!?! Hang in there and know that if you need to talk, just let me know - we can set up our own little thread here or email. I know what you're going through and it is rough!

Great idea! I'll go get it today ... Any BHs have input on getting a letter like this? Should I post this separate from this thread?

Sometimes I just feel like giving up!I have no idea what he is doing,but he obviously is not missing me!He seems to be avoiding everything completely!He hasn't even brought me my mail or called about it!I don't know what to think anymore!I just miss him so much!

jk - I started a post in In Recovery for us ... FWW recovery/vent journal.

So, it seems as though my H has told 1/2 the free world of my A and everyone wants to weigh in on what he should do. I've explained to him that others can only tell him what THEY would do ... but THEY are not HIM! B/c everyone is saying "I can't believe you're still living with her", "You're leaving her right?", and "D-I-V-O-R-C-E" he feels like that is his only option. IMO if he hadn't told everyone he talked to, he could make up his mind on his own and not feel obligated to "be a man" and "just leave". He said to me that he feels that he will be more of a man by leaving. What I wanted to say to him is that it takes more of a man to face his problems head on, rather than run away. I figured that would come out wrong though, so I bit my tongue. He questions whether leaving is the right decision ... shouldn't HE make that decision, instead of everyone else???

have you tried showing him RESPECT by telling him that you are more than willing to talk to these people and admit your mistake to them.....and to tell them for yourselves how sorry you are and your hope that your H will give you another chance?

this would let him save face

what you did has humiliated him....to staying a marriage with you while others think he's a fool....that's even more humiliation

instead of trying to convince him otherwise.....accept that this is how he feels and most men would feel this way

and take steps then to address the issue

another thought....offer to sign a "post-nuptual agreement" stating that if you commit adultry again, you will grant a divorce to him with the majority of your assests going to him

another gesture to show your sincere intentions and to help him save face