Welcome back to your MB home, TFC. I'm sorry to see your husband slipping back into his wandering habits.

I'm not sure how much progress you two have made with MC, or with the concepts in the second half of SAA. Can you comment on those? Seems to me hubby has gotten over a shock to his system and may now be withdrawing again to a place where he doesn't feel he has to extend himself in the marriage. When he's on the road, he believes it's okay to act as if he's free from his responsibilities? Very sad.

Stay strong, TFC.

We haven't made as much progress as I would like. As much as he travels it has been difficult, but we have an appt this week or next. I just don't know if I have it in me to keep fighting. I'm tired. And I'm sick of knowing he's hiding things from me. He's not going to fully commit and I can't live with that.

On the one hand, I think I could move forward a little easier just hearing him finally admit that he was physical with the OW and apologizing for it. I've even thought of just asking her, as she has nothing to lose or gain, but ...

One thing our MC is largely against is what he calls "contingency marriage" ... an "I'll do this if you do that" kind of thing. Its great, in theory, but difficult sometimes. But, maybe this is what I've been doing? "I'll ease up and feel more loved if you'll just [xyz]." I don't know. Maybe its best for me to just give in, stop being so stubborn about having our marriage go the way I want it to, and then maybe things will be better. Maybe if I just give in to everything he'll follow suit and eventually I'll get what I need?

I believe that's the same philosophy Neville Chamberlain used with Adolph Hitler in 1938. It was okay for a while, but it cost everyone badly in the end. I don’t know about this contingency marriage thing. I agree both parties should commit unconditionally, but it appears your husband isn’t coming to the table with anything approaching that kind of dedication. Perhaps your MC would be so kind as to outline for you which of the directions you want your marriage to go is out of line with what other marriages have going for them?

I truly believe that with a simple, sincere apology for his A I could move forward. If I could know that he was truly sorry for his behavior then I could feel like our M was more important to him than anything. But right now, I feel like he isn't owning up to it or apologizing for it b/c he still has the upper hand right now. I just don't know how much more I can do and invest without seeing his loyalty to this M.

If I remember correctly, Dr. Harley warns betrayed spouses in SAA that they may never get an apology. I recall any number of threads out here where that prediction has been shown to be very accurate. You may have to look for an apology in his "body language" (his actions) more than you do his words.

He has the upper hand? That phrase concerns me. It indicates there has been much less progress than you say and that his ego is still getting in the way of successful recovery.

Has he been going to MC with you and participating, or just going through the motions? You know? I think I already know the answer. After a short period where he enthusiastically worked on the marriage, his commitment dramatically fell off, didn't it? The more distant his epiphany retreated from the forefront of his mind, the less enthusiasm he displayed. Now his commitment, and the relationship in general, is just about back where it was six months ago?

Not back that far ... but back a bit. But I'll be honest - I think its my fault for that. I've been a bit standoffish and cold lately. Things were going so well, then they didn't continue along the path I was hoping for and I just starting being resentful all over again. I need to let that go and take the first step to full-on commit to recovery. We've not had many MC sessions, but he's been interactive enough in the ones we've had. I'm really depressed about how things are going right now, though.

Disappointment makes human beings withdraw from interpersonal relationships so as to avoid more pain. I think your reaction of depression is quite normal.

Why so few MC sessions. Frankly, isn't at least one session a week completely in order? My goodness, you and your husband have a TON of issues to work out.

Have you shown your husband the last half of SAA? Is there any progress on getting him to accept any of the protections for a good marriage?

Frankly we haven't made the time for more sessions - his schedule is crazy and its hard to work around it. We have 2 copies of SAA, but I don't think he's looked at it and I haven't handed it over to him either. He is perfectly willing for me to take the precautions (as I have and continue to), but he [obviously] isn't so willing (i.e. changing all his passwords). I can try again when he gets back in town and see how it goes. I'm not so sure he's really wanting to do whatever it takes to save our M. And I need to now decide if I'm ok with that or not ...

Yes, you do have to make some decisions, TFC. I suspect, though you haven't said so, that he hasn't really changed much from two months ago. Did you perhaps overreact to some slight thawing in what I increasingly see as a core arrogance your husband isn’t even aware of?

TFC, I have felt for a long time that the best chance for your marriage to survive was for both of you to undergo some deep, extended marital counseling. I haven’t seen anything that makes me want to reevaluate that. Frankly, I earnestly believe you two have problems that were in place long before both of your adulteries, and none of those other problems are being addressed, much less resolved. I know it’s tough finding times when both of your schedules (and the MC’s schedule) have spaces in which to plug a session, but I think it’s absolutely paramount that you and he begin to work on the reasons all this is happening before your depression deepens and you give up. And, btw, if your MC isn’t tough enough to handle things and give you the forum you need to express your thoughts, find another one.

Oh he's acutely aware of his "core arrogance" ... that doesn't mean he's changing it. His confidence is the first thing that attracted me to him, so I hate to let it be one of the things that I allow to affect our M.

What I see is that we BOTH have some habits that we need to override. (i.e. I am a control freak, he's self-centered.) If we have the right help, and I hope our MC is that help, I think that we can work hard to overcome these obstacles on top of the other marital issues we have. I have stressed to H the importance of working together to change these things, instead of separately. He agreed, but we have to get into that habit. We still have a long way to go ...

Well this week was rough, but much needed. H finally admitted that he was physical with the girl here in town. We laid it all out on the table - got honest like never before. We handled it beautifully! We were calm, rational, serious, honest, and kind. After that, we both jumped into the M 100% - he's even wearing his wedding band again. So, wish us luck ...

Had MC last week ... went well. MC told H that "open access" was normal and should occur in an honest M - meaning full access to email, myspace, etc. H was shocked, but agreed to do it. Well, he agreed verbally - I still don't have access to anything though. Wonder how I should approach that?

Can you "lead by example?" If there's an email account or cell phone access code you could share with him and reference the agreement reached in MC, that might open something up.

I handed over all my passwords right after DDay ... he chooses not to check up, but I know that he can if he wants. Which I think helps hold me accountable to always put my marriage first.

He finally handed over one of the passwords ... and is being better about being more upfront.

NEW QUESTION:
How do you let go of things that your spouse did to hurt you? We both cheated. We both messed things up. We both hurt one another. I fessed up as soon as I was found out and immediately turned my life around. He just admitted to his affair - 5 months later! And I would hardly call what he gave an apology! He did things to deliberately hurt me, and his apologies have been weak at best. I wake up some mornings wanting to just go back to sleep so I don't have to deal with the fact that I don't think my H loves me. I know he used to, and sometimes I think he still does. But most of the time I truly think he only stays married to me b/c of DD. I'm sick of being bitter about things that happened months ago! But I don't know how to let go! I've talked about it in IC, MC, and prayed about it. I just can't let some things go! I don't think I'm any better than him, or vice versa - so its not that I'm holding onto it to be one-up. And I don't want to feel this way, so I'm not holding on to not forgive. And I do want to be married to him, so I'm not holding on to get out. I just can't stop ... any suggestions??? (Please be gentle with me - I'm fragile! So calm suggestions will work best, no 2x4s please!)

I had in mind you changing a password or two, or three, etc., and letting him know each one immediately. It's a good thing to do, security wise, and you don't have to say, "Hint, hint..." when you tell him. The idea will percolate down into his brain sooner or later.

As to how to let go, I only know it takes time...often lots of time. In my case, I wasn't at peace for about four years, but that was without any kind of counseling at all and some unique difficulties imposed on the situation by being in the military. All I can suggest, TFC, is to keep talking to your IC and MC about it so you can explore ideas with them and eventually find a resolution.

Why don't you set up another thread looking for advice on that specific issue? You've gotten some fresh ideas using that method in the past so maybe it'll bring in something this time.

Hang in there, lady.

Found out 2 weeks ago today that my H lied about the extent of things with OW. Turns out they didn't just "get physical" - they had sex, unprotected sex, numerous times! I sent him for an STD test. It came back positive for 2 STDs! And then today he tells more - another girl (I say this as she was only 21!) gave him oral sex.

When do I believe that all the truth has come out? When is more going to be revealed? How do I handle this? Can we ever get through this?

TFC...I am sorry this happened to you. STD's have been a hot topic on these boards of late.
Do what you can to protect your health.

Personally, I think you have given your H every chance he deserves....how many more insults must you endure?

Polygraph or divorce...give him the choice.

One one hand, I love him and want to be there for him. On the other hand, it seems that I've enabled all his behavior by keeping by his side. So if I stay, does this say to him that I will tolerate just about anything?

I actually considered the polygraph test - how does one go about doing this?

look up an examiner online that will handle your needs. Look for some law enforcement work in their background. It will cost between 400-600 and will let you know if he is still lying about anything.

and, yes...it does say you will tolerate anything. stand up and stop taking his crap.