Thanks again guys. Alphelion some great advice as usual. LITW nice to see you back, please keep inputting. I didn't do the flowers in the end just a text to tell her i was thinking about her and thanks.
Aphelion, 3ft eh, sounds like good backcountry stuff to me. I ride the single lump of plastic tho if you know what i mean.
Just finishing my EN questionaire and i am going to post it throught her door later on. She can read it in her own time and i have asked her to complete hers and let me have it tomorrow when she picks car up.
Well who said life was going to be easy and in my moment of need its great that all you guys are sparing your time to help me along this very difficult path. When we reach the fork in the path i hope and pray all my hard work will let us walk hand in hand down the right path.

i also wrote her a 2 page letter explaining relationship issues and possible solutions etc. I was going to attach this to the back of the questionaire but on sound advice i will not, don't want to push on the R side of things.

Don't lecture her.

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP! Oh my word what have i done. With a few beers in me and some stupid dutch courage i have probably messed up big time, or have i?
I went out with a friend tonight. Before i went out i dropped off the ENQ to the wife and just posted it thru the door. I dropped her a text to tell her i'd been round and check the mail. Heard nothing until two hours later i get a call about sorting the car out for tomorrow. We arrange that i'll drop it in to her work tomorrow before she leaves at 12ish. I asked her if she had read my ENQ and had she done hers. She said she had filled it all in (which is a bonus as i didn't think she would) but i might be a bit upset by some of her comments. I said thats fine as long it was a good honest appraisal i didn't mind what she wrote. Better to be honest than beat about the bush. Call ends. I then start to have the demons in the old brain and get all sidetracked and start thinking negatively. So the fingers get busy and i text her
"What were your honest thoughts about my ENQ?"
To which i get the reply
"Yeah it makes sense i know thats how you would like things to be"
To which i reply "It is. And with some work we can achieve those things and yours together. It only takes time and patience. Don't throw it all away without a little effort. IT IS NOT OVER. I know how you feel but give our marriage a chance. Please"
No response so i am pretty fuming by now and text and tell her that i am going to a surprise breakfast for my best mates Dad in the morning (61st birthday).
Reply "Good night, have a good time then"
To which i snapped back "You forgot the love you, i miss you, kiss and thanks for all your kind texts of love and support"
A little while later "Thanks for all your kind texts. Night x"
Ohhhhh i could pop. So mad with her but why?? Earlier in night i had text her after convo re car "No problem. Take care. We all miss you and would love for you to come home and try. I'm a lost soul in a scary world. Help me"
I can't believe i've done this tonight. What an absolute idiot. Need to come on here and rant, excuse me for that. It has made me feel a little better.
Any advice from out there?? I am so silly just a few beers gets me all stupid again!!!!!!!!!!! Mental note, do not drink any more till head straight!

why would you not have the right to say how you are feeling?

Hi LITW. It just feels like i am pushing too much. I want to be the nice guy she fell in love with not some guy who keeps going on at her to come home. I agree i should be able to tell her my feelings but am i better not doing. She knows how i feel but i keep ramming it down her throat!

Evo,
I am so scared to say the wrong thing and lead you down the wrong path......
But you cant take back what you said.. and I dont think you should... i know you lost your cool and that some LB's came out but you are hurting and your hurt needs to come out in some way.... you filled out your questions as did she... yes you guys should communicate about that but i think what some of the guys said about setting a time period for it would be wise.... she needs to know that you are hurting, but at the same time it may be wise for you to vent to us first.... that way you can filter prior to it getting to her....
i guess my suggestions (not sure if it is right) just dont do it again.... let her have some time to let it sink in and tomorrow dont bring it up... if she does.... then could you maybe say something to the extent of you were just venting and letting out some feelings and you didnt mean to make her feel you were ramming them down her throat?

Ouch. AO by TM? Yes, stay off the beer for awhile.



I know it might be difficult, but try not to come across as clinging and needy, TM'ing or otherwise.

Did you apologize for your AO? That was one BIG problem my FWW and I identified in our M - we never used to apologize for our LBs and AOs. The end result? Lots of resentment.

And yes, lay off the beer for awhile, if it will help <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Hi MiM, nice of you to drop by. I kinda apologised about AO. Instead of an outrgiht apology i tried to lighten the situation. After received text from her i waited a little while on way home from Chinese Takeaway sent following
"Thank you for last message. Just off home with my treat for the month. Crispy duck, our favourite. I'll think of you as i tuck in. The dog will enjoy it too! Night love x"
Folowed after food by "That was good. Dog enjoyed hers as did cat. Sorry to go on again tonight but please appreciate how important you are to me. Night"
Defo going to leave beer alone for a while as every time i drink its as if someone flicks a switch from mr sensible to mr feel sorry for me man.

Speaking from experience, that does NOT WORK. In my case, whenever I tried to make light of situations like that, it led to even further resentment on the part of my FWW.

Adding credits to the love bank does not automatically mean that corresponding debits will be taken from the resentment bank, and believe me, you want to keep your balance in the latter as low as possible <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Ok MiM thanks i will remember and adhere to that in the future, hopefully not have to as no need to apologise about AO if don't do one!
Today was a strange day. WS came round to collect car and say goodbye before her three day trip to the relatives. I just looked her in the eye and told her to have a great time, ring or text if she needed anything and i;d see her sunday. Dropped a little i love you in her ear as we hugged and she gave me a quick lip touch and a kiss on the cheek. So that was nice. Just heard from her that she got there ok.
Been to golf with FIL this afternoon and we talked about the situ as we wandered round and he really wants to see us make a go of it, so thats good news but like he said he has spoken to her till she he is blue in the face and she won't change her mind (just yet?).
She also gave me the EN questionnaire results back today. Some interesting reading and i am willing to share these with you if you feel its appropriate for some feedback?? Let me know and i will drop details on a post. In general, as expected i was not meeting her EN but not as bad as i thought it would be apart from Admiration.
Keep all the advice coming it is helping me thru some dark hours and MiM i will stay off the beer, just one or two when i go out not 8 or 10 as it has been.
Docs again tomorrow with the face problem so see what he has to say about AD's. Not sure if thats the path i want to be taking tho. Maybe would help but ideally i would like to ride this baby through on my own. Will see waht he says.........

Lets talk about the LBing first.

Don’t. No matter what. Go punch a pillow, come here and vent, call a friend, pray. Just don’t.

And making light is not an apology. Making light is what abusers do. I get the feeling you are not used to apologizing. Try it for real. And not via TM.

Use I feel statements when you communicate with her. I think, you are, you do, etc, are not I feel statements. Do not use them. They raise shields and increase background noise in the communication channel.


Now, about the beer.

Has this been a problem evo? I come from a family of alcoholics. Not me, but mother, brothers, grandfather, uncles… I have spent years in Al Anon meetings. I see red flags here:

“I will stay off the beer, just one or two when I go out not 8 or 10 as it has been.”

8 beers would lay me out for a day. Your tolerance seems rather high, which is a warning sign right there. I’m not going to belabor this except to say, if you have trouble keeping this promise to yourself you should look at your drinking rather critically. You cannot use beer as any exuse or any reason whatsoever for an LB. In fact, ask WW if your drinking has ever bothered her. You may be surprised at her answer.


I have a strong recommendation re ADs:

“Docs again tomorrow with the face problem so see what he has to say about ADs. Not sure if that’s the path I want to be taking tho. Maybe would help but ideally i would like to ride this baby through on my own.”

ADs are not an admission of weakness, evo. I was on them for a year after DDay 1 and for another year after DDay 2. They definitely take the edge off the anxiety and reduce the urge to AO. I recommend them.

But you cannot drink while on them.


Finally, expose to these relatives she is visiting. Ask FIL to do it. Explain the reasons for exposure to him. Perhaps FIL should read the main MB site to learn how to exert the right pressure at the right time on the A. Think about it .



With prayers,

Alphelion, thanks again. Firstly with regards to the drink. I like a drink but never in total excess. More of a social thing here in UK. Everybody meets at the pub and chats, smokes and drinks. Well smoke till July 1st then its banned! I have drunk a little more later thinking that was the answer to my problem but i have since learnt that all it does is make it easier to register big LB's. I am no where near being an alchoholic and can take it or leave it, trust me.
Secondly re the AD's. I had Ad's in 2000 during previous problems with a failed business and again problems in this marriage. I can't honestly say if they did any good as i suppose you don't know what i would have been like without them. All i know is my mum called me a Zombie but she is very old fashioned!! Will see what Doc says.
Thirdly i will speak to FIL re this but i feel he will be scared to get involved too much in case he alienates his daughter.
Just had a bit of a lift as its getting on here (11:45) and wife had not sent me usual good night text but one just come thru with a kiss on the end. Its made my night, strange how simple things make you happy when everything seems so dark. My reply was "Ok babe. Thanks for text.Tucked up in bed now with dog trying her best to push me out! Take care, love you and have a good break you sure deserve one x"
I feel that is more of the texts i need to send.
Alphelion, thanks again

Hi All. Morning update. Went to docs and he presribed AD's so started course, will hopefully even out moods and clear my head a little. Really struggling today again. Just trying to conduct myself in a manner which will appeal to my wifes EN's, trouble is with me i am such an impatient person and feel like pushing and pushing situation but i know this will do irrepairable damage. Give me strength. Next step i guess is keep contact to a minimal but use the time wisely to talk about her day, listen and finish with a quick i love you. Any comments or advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. For anyone reading this thread i would totally recommend this site as it has helped and encouraged me at times when things looked so bad. For all those that have posted and thank you for your valuable comments no matter how small. THANK YOU ALL

So what did you set up on the 'snooping' side of things to figure out where she's really at? GPS? Voice activated recorder? Have friends setup to verify where she's at?

If you've NOT done anything along these lines, I'm of the opinion that you're not taking enough measures to safegaurd your marriage. The "get away to sort things out" is VERY common in affairs. My wife was talking me into one during her EA...and I caught the text messages later where she encouraged OM to meet with her while she was getting away from me/our family. Luckily, d-day arrived with those same messages, and prevented it from happening, but otherwise, it would have without a doubt in my case.

And...I totally agree with Aphelion on the LB's...don't. The ONLY person you can really control in this situation is YOU...so have that control over what you say/do and use it to work out your marriage.

Keep us posted friend.

Hi Owl. Did buy a voice activeted recorder and fitted in car under driver seat. Tested it but seemed a waste of time as wife drives with radio on all the time and it was just on constant record. Also as only bought it that morning and hadn't got to grips with it that it might beep or something and she would find it. I couldn't live with myself if she knew i was taping her talks. Plus talking on phone is highly illegal here in England so it would prob been waste of time. However, when i am on holiday i am going to plant it in the house somewhere so i can pick up on any conversation she has, be it with OM or close friends. Although i don't feel it will be with OM, from her conversation with close friends i might be able to pick up on something that she hasn't discussed with me??
Can't get number of relative she is stopping with, at her cousins friends apartment so no go on that side. What i thought of doing was calling her on her mobile and while chatting away call the OM mobile using home phone (number witheld option) and see if any phone rings in background. What do you reckon to that one. If i hear ringing i will ask her who's phone is ringing and no doubt she will say its cousins. If this happens whats the best plan of action? Say No its not cousins, its OM? Ignore it and keep chatting? Confused.com, please keep posts coming

evo,

I have been catching up on your sitch off and on over the last couple of days.

Just want to encourage you to keep up the good work! I have found some of the BEST stuff for me in coming to better understand my WS, the Plan A and Plan B, MB principals, etc is from not only reading MY thread, but mostly from reading others.

There are a lot of VERY experienced folks here that we can both learn from and who will help us thru this horrible time in our lives. The more I read, the more I find the folks who have posts that help me the most. I tend to focus on those.

Sorry to go on here, just really want to say I admire your efforts, keep up the good work, and thanks for checking in on my thread, too!

Have a GREAT day! Do something EXTRA nice, just for you this weekend. YOU deserve it!

Thanks BugsMom still following your thread too. Been through many others too, MinnesotaMan and Lovehurts23 are two others that i follow with great interest. It does help and you can take snippets from all of the posts to use in your personal plan. Its strange that no two situ's are identical and yet we all have one thing in common. Restructuring our/their lives to gain a better future with the person we love. Take care and i know how hard it is but a good old British saying for you "Chin Up"

Evo... you are very smart! At least i think so... i would have never thought to call and see if the phone was ringing in the background... keep in mind many people keep their phones on silent....

as far as the reaction you should take.... im going to leave that up to the experts, but i wanted you to know that I am still in here and praying for you and your wife.
LITW

“If I hear ringing I will ask her who's phone is ringing and no doubt she will say its cousins. If this happens what’s the best plan of action? Say No its not cousins, its OM? Ignore it and keep chatting?”

Gad, I remember these nightmare days and nights. Lying awake all hours of the night forming nefarious plans to ferret out the truth, to catch her in flagranti delwhatever. I snooped with the best of them. Found lots of stuff too. And I never knew what to do with it. Some was damning, some was confusing and some was pure as driven snow.

Just gave me an ulcer.

Until you see the smoking gun you are adding to your pain with each tiny piece of conflicting data. Even the stuff that looks good to you will not put your mind at ease right now.

You are trying to prove a negative, and that is difficult if not impossible.

Soon it will be time for the loving detachment discussion. But it won’t help until you are ready for it, and past all this.

We all know she’s had an affair and is .99 probability still in contact to one degree or another.

IMO your focus should be on her moving back home, meeting her ENs, and improving yourself via Plan A.

Besides, you can get the cell phone bill if she moves back home.

So, figure out how you will bring up staying in the house when you get back. How will you convince her?

I forget if this came up already, what about exposure to OM’s family, friends and work? Digging up HIS hopefully sordid background is definitely worthwhile at this point.

Are there PIs in GB?


With prayers,